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Author Topic: CMS GE issue  (Read 2866 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
CMS GE issue
« on: May 08, 2020, 03:47 PM »
I noticed that the black rings that guard the bits are sitting down about .5mm from the table height.  Not an issue on the infeed side but a major problem on the out feed side.  The workpiece is always hanging up .  These rings are not made to be adjustable so I was wondering if I should put some tape underneath to lift up the ring slightly.  Ideas?

« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 09:30 PM by HowardH »
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7396
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2020, 04:24 PM »
I would certainly try that.

That’s funny as my rings were about .5 mm proud of the surface instead. I took an ETS EC sander to them and now they’re within .001” of the surface.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2020, 06:39 PM »
I would certainly try that.

That’s funny as my rings were about .5 mm proud of the surface instead. I took an ETS EC sander to them and now they’re within .001” of the surface.


I'm with @Cheese on this one, but I'd use a small piece of aluminum duct tape at four points around the circumference of the ring.  Try it one thickness at a time.  I had to use a similar build-up on the main plate of the CMS-GE to get it level at the front.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Samo

  • Posts: 592
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2020, 07:05 PM »
This has been a big gripe of mine. Love the CMS system but have a few things I’ve wanted to fix.

I was thinking of applying veneer on the adaptors and rings?

Let us know how it goes?  🤓
It's The FOG!  Just rotate the screen.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2020, 07:07 PM »
Will do.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2020, 07:40 PM »
This has been a big gripe of mine. Love the CMS system but have a few things I’ve wanted to fix.

I was thinking of applying veneer on the adaptors and rings?

Let us know how it goes? 
Mine as well. I was going to talk to Jerry [mention]Precision Dogs [/mention] or Hans at [mention]TSO Products [/mention] about an aluminum set a few years ago but time got away. Happy to discuss options here.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2020, 09:27 PM »
I took @Sparktrician advice and got some aluminum duct tape.  The shoulder is not more than a mm or two wide so I had to carefully attach it to the ring.  It took 2 layers but as you can see in the second photo, it leveled out the rings with the table. 

Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2020, 11:33 AM »
I spoke to a gentlemen at Festool and he informed me the issue we have been talking about is a design element.  He said the CMS is not designed to route end grain vertically, especially if the piece is fairly short.  It works perfectly when the piece is laid flat on the table, not so much the other way.  I suppose I have to use a wider workpiece initially, cut that end grain first, then cut it down to length and then do the flat side. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 02:40 PM by HowardH »
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2020, 04:05 PM »
I spoke to a gentlemen at Festool and he informed me the issue we have been talking about is a design element.  He said the CMS is not designed to route end grain vertically, especially if the piece is fairly short.  It works perfectly when the piece is laid flat on the table, not so much the other way.  I suppose I have to use a wider workpiece initially, cut that end grain first, then cut it down to length and then do the flat side.


I don't understand the issue that you're having with end-grain stock.  Can you post a picture or two of the issue? 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 04:12 PM »
Check my first post.  you will see where the insert rings are slightly below the table level.  If you take let's say a board 5" wide, 6" long and 1/2" thick and put it on the table with the end flat against the fence, then only part touching the table is the .5" wide end.  Like when you are using a bandsaw to resaw a thick board.  that's the problem.  If I laid the board flat on the table, it's area is covering the the rings so there is no way for the lip to "catch" the edge as it comes through.  Hope this helps. I can always take a pic of when I get home. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2020, 04:55 PM »
Check my first post.  you will see where the insert rings are slightly below the table level.  If you take let's say a board 5" wide, 6" long and 1/2" thick and put it on the table with the end flat against the fence, then only part touching the table is the .5" wide end.  Like when you are using a bandsaw to resaw a thick board.  that's the problem.  If I laid the board flat on the table, it's area is covering the the rings so there is no way for the lip to "catch" the edge as it comes through.  Hope this helps. I can always take a pic of when I get home.


OK.  Got it.  Suggest that you might use a backer board to push the work piece through the bit.  To use your example, I'd grab a piece of 1/2" plywood (or other handy stock, 18" long and 4" wide.  I'd use that piece to push the work piece through the bit to keep the work piece truly vertical until it clears the bit.  Let me know if you need a picture.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2020, 06:34 PM »
I got it. make perfect sense...here is what i was trying to do.  BTW, I simply moved the fence back into relative position for purposes of the post...

Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7396
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2020, 06:53 PM »
Well I’m certainly not buying what the Festool service person said. There’s no reason why those rings shouldn’t be sitting flush with the table.

If it’s such a desireable “design element”, then why hasn’t every other router table manufacturer incorporated it into their product?

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2020, 06:54 PM »
I got it. make perfect sense...here is what i was trying to do.  BTW, I simply moved the fence back into relative position for purposes of the post...


I see what you're doing.  I do think a push board as suggested might help significantly.  I use one here all the time, and it's made this kind of cut much easier and more stable.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2020, 06:56 PM »
Well I’m certainly not buying what the Festool service person said. There’s no reason why those rings shouldn’t be sitting flush with the table.

If it’s such a desireable “design element”, then why hasn’t every other router table manufacturer incorporated it into their product?


Spot on!!! 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2020, 08:14 PM »
Well I’m certainly not buying what the Festool service person said. There’s no reason why those rings shouldn’t be sitting flush with the table.

If it’s such a desireable “design element”, then why hasn’t every other router table manufacturer incorporated it into their product?
Agreed. I have often complained here about the two items I like least about my VL. One is that fence. The other is the rings. I know that can be fixed, I just don’t have anyway to kill aluminum. I will try reaching out to Hans at TSO or Jerry at Precision Dogs directly. Not sure if there is enough CMS users to warrant it or not, but I am happy to run it down.

In the past my pitch was to make it clean sweep style.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 07:35 PM »
I’ve read with interest here.
As a CMS OF (2x  [embarassed]) owner and user myself, there’s an idea that I have thought of.
I do have an older version of the module (plate) that is different than the newest version (fence is the same). I like very much the fence - very good dust extraction, relatively easy to adjust, can be used as a jointer.. But the older plate only accepts older insert rings, and only OF 1400 and OF 2000/2200, not the OF 1010. So for it to accept other routers I need to find new and longer attachment bars (not very difficult) - but then there’s the hole and adapter rings..

The older table is noticeably stiffer as it also has two “T track’s” that works as reinforcements.
I have thought of going to a CNC shop to cut out the plate - to adopt “regular” router insert plates - preserving the t-tracks, as well as “original configuration” but now as a smaller plate, regarding attachment of FT’s two routers for this table. But: cutting out means that it can also be adopted to a “regular” router insert. Then one can use aftermarket router lifts, adapter plates, insert rings and so on, including the “original” center portion of the plate.

However, I have not taken any measurement to witch “system” to adopt to - as there’s no “standard” unfortunately. There are amongst others I don’t remember - but maybe you?
Jessem, Rockler, Kreg, Woodpecker.. they seem to operate with their own proprietary sizes.. [mad]

If one shall jump to such non reversible modification, which manufacturer would you choose?
The benefit would be to continue use of the CMS, but added versatility of other plates, lifts, insert rings and so on. It would be modular within Festool modular..  [big grin]

@Cheese - I have noted your great skills.. have you ever been into thinking something as I’m describing?
- It could solve a few niggles to the CMS OF, and keeping it’s best features..  [smile]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7396
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2020, 08:14 PM »
@Cheese - I have noted your great skills.. have you ever been into thinking something as I’m describing?
- It could solve a few niggles to the CMS OF, and keeping it’s best features..  [smile]

I think you have a great idea...the only issue may be that the Woodpeckers version is quite large. I wonder if that would compromise the stiffness of the Festool plate?  The upside though is that Woodpeckers offers these rings every now & then in aluminum.

Maybe this would be something that Hans @TSO_Products would be interested in?


Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2020, 09:49 PM »
@Cheese - I have noted your great skills.. have you ever been into thinking something as I’m describing?
- It could solve a few niggles to the CMS OF, and keeping it’s best features..  [smile]

I think you have a great idea...the only issue may be that the Woodpeckers version is quite large. I wonder if that would compromise the stiffness of the Festool plate?  The upside though is that Woodpeckers offers these rings every now & then in aluminum.

Maybe this would be something that Hans @TSO_Products would be interested in?
I was tagging Hans in as well. I have had the same thought about rigidity of the plate and was more thinking of a shallow route with my Shaper-O for the Incra magnalocks. I was going to use the magnet areas to also “shim” up and down somehow. Hadn’t gotten all the way through my engineering of it .

HANS!!

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2020, 07:32 AM »
Even though I know the CMS is a niche and fading market with its removal from Europe, count me in as interested.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7396
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2020, 10:48 AM »
I was tagging Hans in as well. I have had the same thought about rigidity of the plate and was more thinking of a shallow route with my Shaper-O for the Incra magnalocks. I was going to use the magnet areas to also “shim” up and down somehow. Hadn’t gotten all the way through my engineering of it .
Cheers. Bryan.

Hi Bryan @bkharman  this is one of those quirky grey areas that Festool always seems to force people to wade in. They provide a great alternative for an on-site portable router table, albeit at a premium price.

However, at the same time, they are churning out a bastardized set of accessory router bit rings that are either flush with the router table, below the surface of the router table or proud of the router table. Some are high...some are low and some are "just right", that makes no sense at all. I expected better.  [sad]

Those Incra MagnaLock Rings are interesting, they are completely new to me. I think something along the lines of a reduced head thickness, fine thread hex bolt with an imbedded/recessed magnet would allow for ring height adjustment.

https://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_MagnaLOCK_Ring_p/mlr-single.htm

« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 07:46 PM by Cheese »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2020, 12:07 PM »
I'm with @Cheese on this one, but I'd use a small piece of aluminum duct tape at four points around the circumference of the ring.  Try it one thickness at a time.  I had to use a similar build-up on the main plate of the CMS-GE to get it level at the front.   [smile]


I just checked the ring height on my own CMS using a straightedge and Sedge's method of using yellow stickies to gauge the height of the black rings relative to the CMS' deck.  I had to use one thickness of aluminum tape on the outermost black ring to bring the ring set up to the same height as the CMS' deck.  I'd noticed that before, but had forgotten about the gap.  @TSO Products, any thought to developing a more consistently accurate ring set for the CMS?   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 277
    • TSO Products LLC
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2020, 01:50 PM »
thanks all ,for bringing this topic back to our attention. As Bryan said, we discussed it a couple of years ago and nothing moved it higher on our project list.

We'll take another look at it and report back.

Hans


Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2020, 07:21 PM »
How great that you all liked the idea!
I was surprised that there seemed to be little in the aftermarket for these router modules.
But, now I know some of you have been into thinking and discussing improvements.
Thanks you guys for bringing it up again.

In writing to @TSO Products - There might be quite a market in Europe as well. I know Germany is big, I even know that from Scandinavia these router modules are scarce at pre-owned sales.
My believe is that these are not items most owners will sell. At least not now when discontinued.
That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a market, more likely so - an ability to buy insert rings, plates that accepts more routers - with the option of a more proper router lift. (Although the two “lifts” that came with these modules isn’t really great - but the design of Festool routers more or less demands these special lifts - the earliest one is essentially a screw... [huh])
I guess there are  great number of router modules in the US.. once available I’d guess there will be a huge interest.

The adoption of an insert that has a shape of a “standard” router plate will enhance these modules into one of the most desirable router tables.
1. The CMS GE is in fact a true portable table. With legs up on a firm surface it’s great.
    Even with the legs down it’s good enough for router use.
2. Both the VL and GE accepts accessories such as in and outfeed tables - readily available.
3. The versatility and features, considering the great fence also, is not met by any competitor. So I think. - I researched a lot before buying - almost every other manufacturer has some L-profile steel sub frame, the fences vary, but most are pretty basic. To add to that they are fairly expensive compared to the package of Festool CMS OF. Even with it’s shortcomings.
The CMS OF is more or less identical to a scaled down stationary shaper situated in almost any woodshop here - I see loads of new and old shapers for sale here - pre-owned and new. Most look like the CMS OF - or more correctly: The other way around. Dust collection, fences functions, roller table - after using my CMS OF I could probably set up a large scale professional shaper the same way.

Speaking for myself, and judging by the interest here as well, I would definitely invest more in my table(s) - I’m considering keeping both modules, especially if I can make them even more versatile - and free my Festool routers more from the table and buy a second or two for table use. But I want the CMS OF functionality.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2020, 07:32 PM »
And just one more thing...:

I believe there’s strength enough in the modules themselves, you’ll move weight closer to the edges considering a rigid insert plate, and there’s always a possibility to sandwich from the underside. Or strengthen with some useful tracks - even on the underside.
The “old” table has large profiles running parallel to the fence, and one of them has a t-track in conjunction on the opposite side - the top, behind the fence - for some reason.
The newest table is completely flat on the underside.
The oldest table has really no option for insert rings either. The opening in the aluminium in this table is not compatible with the newer table either, it’s quite smaller in diameter.
But, its well constructed, in fact better than it’s successor.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2020, 08:02 PM »
This could work out great.  I took a Kreg router plate and laid it on top of the OF module:



It would appear that someone would have to manufacture a new module that would incorporate the holes necessary to attach the fence but there is plenty of room.  I, for one, would definitely be interested in a replacement module that would allow me to use a conventional lift and a PC 7518 motor. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2020, 08:17 PM »
I think it would be great.
@HowardH - I really see your frustration. In an expensive and otherwise thoughtful and great product it’s easy to be let down by these quirks you have. As Cheese had with protruding rings.
I guess I’m lucky so far, as my rings seems pretty spot on.
Nonetheless, there are other issues as being totally proprietary to FT routers. (It is of course made by Festool - for Festool products) To add versatility of the option to use other routers could for some be additional value. Many will probably still use their Festool routers one the table anyhow. Amd with added strengths to the whole package, it becomes even more Festool spirit to it!  [big grin]
I’m eager to have a project as yours, I like the locking router bits versatility. Not being an Domino owner (yet..) This is more conventional, and traditional woodworking - and it’s visible. A signature of the maker.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2020, 08:32 PM »
I'm with you.  I absolutely love the setup.  I have the set so it has everything I could possibly need from a table aspect:  small footprint, superb dust control, great fence.  There isn't any storage, ie. Norm's table, but that's ok.  My back isn't as good as it was 30 years ago so having to bend over and reach under the table to reach the bit release/tightening mechanism is a bit of a pain... literally.  One negative I just thought of.  You would lose the dust collection out the bottom.  However, my experience shows the majority of the DC occurs with the bigger hose attached to the fence.  I'm not holding my breath that someone will actually come to market with a product but I'll be watching for it anyway.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 08:44 PM by HowardH »
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2020, 09:09 PM »
I love all of these thoughts!  I am an engineer by trade, so making thing is natural.  Making them better is my love! 

A couple of thoughts.  [mention]HowardH [/mention] , in regards to adding another router plate, it is easy to make one out of MDF or other wood instead of modifying your aluminum plate. I did a make one for a jigsaw before out of Baltic that actually worked great!  I accidentally made it into another jig a while back, but with another thread here, thought about doing it again. I also was thinking of making a “hole” to put my TS plate in on my table on the opposite side of my VL.

I also think there is definitely a way to replace the plastic parts that make up the attachment ring (grey) as well as the throat plates (black). I am thinking a nice pretty blue adapter ring with some ball detents to hold the throat plates in place. I would also have at least 4-6 grub screws to level the throat plates as needed. If we wanted to do aluminum adapter ring with magnetic grub screws and steel plates I think that would be awesome as well!

Glad to see a community that wants to make this better. It has bothered me since 2014.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1262
Re: CMS GE issue
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2020, 09:23 PM »
Interesting idea.  I wonder if MDF would have the strength and rigidity tho to hold up a heavy router and lift hanging from it?  The MDF plate would have to be very thin to be able to drop into the base and have all the attachments co-planer with the plate.  A direct replacement made out of aluminum may still be the ultimate answer unless I'm missing something.  Would love to hear other opinions. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router plate. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500