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Author Topic: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?  (Read 28075 times)

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Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 394
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2019, 04:39 AM »
It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.
Any idea to write a open letter -in which we can express the concerns- to Festool HQ on behalf of the community? We, as customers, do have some influence to changing things for the better. However, only if we are doing so united.

Just a thought.

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Online Alex

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2019, 05:24 AM »
It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

I doubt that's gonna happen.

Hadn't realised Phil also moved on, another loss for the FOG.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 07:20 AM by Alex »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 156
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2019, 06:23 AM »
It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Peter
Sad to hear Phil's moved on. Hopefully he's on to better things and left with a nice big leaving present from Festool.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6540
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2019, 09:17 AM »
It will be interesting to see if Festool UK nominate a FOG person now that Phil Beckley has moved on. His contributions were always very helpful.

Peter

Sorry to see Phil depart...I always enjoyed his straight-talking answers and his short videos.  [sad] [sad]

I was also sad to see Danny Mack leave, he and Phil had the same type of hands-on, no-nonsense approach.  [sad] [sad]

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #124 on: October 28, 2019, 10:46 AM »
Phil is a decent sort, always helpful. He’ll be missed by Festool for sure.

As for ditching Festool. I always buy tools that I think will perform the best and be durable in a professional environment, from various brands available.

I have sold on tools from Festool, Makita, Dewalt and also Mafell.
On the few occasions I’ve sold tools on, it’s either because I’ve not been as happy with a tool as I expected to be, and replaced the tool from one from another brand. Or, the tool is not seeing enough, if any use.

I think generally the majority of Festool tools are very good, and good warranty, albeit at a premium price. The important thing for me, is how tools perform and last. Customer service is important but, tool performance means more to me.

I have emailed Festool a few times regarding certain things, and never got replies. I have always found them helpful on the phone though.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #125 on: October 28, 2019, 11:59 AM »
This thread reminds me of a die-hard Festool fan who ditched the Green for some odd reason. I never ditch a brand, only vendors with whom I have had very bad experiences with.

While I enjoy the Festool machines I own, I wouldn't equip my shop with only Festool gear. I don't own any Festool drills, fir instance, and I don't know how, for their prices, they'll be better than my Bosch or Black & Decker ones.

Like anything else, I wouldn't put all the eggs in one basket, no matter how nice that basket may be.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 12:01 PM by ChuckM »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2019, 11:36 PM »
I got rid of my sationary tools and now my shop is almost 100% festool. Theres nothing really I need to do the work I do. Well Maybe the conturo would be nice.  But other than that Im good. Now If I do need a new tool Ill buy it. Unless festool comes out with something that will really improve my work flow, I just buy accessories .

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6540
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2019, 11:45 PM »
This thread reminds me of a die-hard Festool fan who ditched the Green for some odd reason.

Is that the same Festool die-hard I'm thinking of? A bearded gent that owned more Festool gear than the typical Festool retailer?

If so, that was indeed a curious turn of events...

Offline WillB

  • Posts: 13
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2019, 04:50 PM »
To the OP, very sorry to hear about your problems.  I feel your pain.  I assume many reading this feel the same.  These are not BORG tools, they are premium tools we pay 2-8x the price for. 

To answer your question about ditching Festool...
I own a fair bit of Festool tools... when I started 15yrs ago, I drank the green koolaid like many others.  I was loyal to the brand.  But nothing looses loyalty faster than failed products, poor service and customer care, poor design, poor QC, etc.  Some of the design shortcomings, all wrote about previously on this site.  Batteries failing at a rate 3x greater than Bosch or DWalt.  New saws come not square, etc.  Seems users on this site know more about the problems with Festool than the Festool USA service staff does, as they can make you feel as if that is the first time they ever heard of a problem, and yet, its written all over this forum. 

So now, I treat Festool as just another vendor, they are no longer my first choice like they were in the past.  Now, I look for other vendors first, if their products meet my needs, I buy them.  If Festool has a tool I need, and its uniqueness separates it from the competition, I will buy it.  So I have not ditched Festool, but I am not super loyal as in the past, always wanting to support the company like when i started. 

BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers. 

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 958
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2019, 05:59 PM »
BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers.

Will, I don't know about Bosch, I don't own any because they are less accessible to me and also more expensive compare to Dewalt/Makita/Milwaukee. Those three companies sells cordless power tools pretty cheap, where they get you is on the batteries. I have over 10 Milwaukee M18 and often I paid less for the bare tool then a high capacity batteries. I just bought a bare impact drill M12 yesterday for $74, a single XC 6.0 is $118  [eek]
Mario

Offline WillB

  • Posts: 13
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #130 on: November 10, 2019, 08:04 PM »
I see that here too with Milwaukee...
ON amazon, there is always specials, so I get batteries pretty reasonable, and of course, they are all interchangeable if you stay in the same tool family.. all my DW tools run off the 20V and most of Bosch are the small 12V tools, which are just fabulous for light weight power tools, all interchangeable. 
Regardless, for me, the tools plus batteries compared to Festool, easily 50 - 70% less.   I have nothing against Milwaukee tools, just started with these battery systems and it grew, cant change now!

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 597
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #131 on: November 10, 2019, 08:43 PM »
I have a lot of M18 tools, never bought a replacement battery.  Some of the tools I bought came with batteries and chargers (combo kits are a good deal).  The batteries I have are all nearly 10 years old and still going strong.

Bare tools are a great deal, and this is why sticking to a brand works so well.  It's also why buying into a battery system from a company with only a small number of battery tools or one that is still in the phase where they haven't locked in their battery design for the long term isn't going to happen for me.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #132 on: November 10, 2019, 09:28 PM »
I think the two strongest battery platforms out there are Milwaukee & Metabo. Milwaukee has always been a leader except for that horrific V-28 program...that still brings tears to my eyes.

I've had Milwaukee cordless tools for 20 years and most of them still function...except for the V-28's.  [crying] [crying] [crying]

Metabo has entered into a cordless alliance with Mafell and others to standardize the battery platform. That seems to be a good move going forward.

I think the best of all worlds would be for Festool to design tools that use Milwaukee batteries. I'm just not that sold long-term on Festool batteries. There are some quirks in the platform.

As an aside, I also want to purchase a Grayco cordless spray gun but the Dewalt battery platform they use, always prevents me from pulling the pin. That bad taste in your mouth lasts for years.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 117
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #133 on: November 10, 2019, 10:14 PM »
Quote
a single XC 6.0 is $118

As an extrapolation of dollar per Ah, this is fairly consistent with the price of the base 2.0Ah battery.   I've also seen them on sale for $82USD.

Quote
I'm just not that sold long-term on Festool batteries. There are some quirks in the platform.

For sure. They can't (or most likely won't) even standardize within their own brand.  12v drill battery won't fit the sander.  Neither will fit any other tool in the lineup.  For a brief time I think there were even two different batteries for the CXS and TXS. And while everyone else is upgrading the cells to increase Ah, we still only have one offering.


Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 835
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #134 on: November 11, 2019, 09:15 AM »
Hello Will

I had the opposite experience with all the Festool batteries I had for many years. I was amazed at how well they held a charge, even when tools and batteries had been left in the truck for days, during the cold of winter.  I recently sold the last of my FT  and Hilti cordless drills and used the proceeds to buy some DeWalt cordless 20V drills because I wanted to be able to have one battery work for drill , cordless saw, etc.

As for the Customer Service end of things, I experienced the same sort of "attitude" the few times I needed to call Festool USA. At the time my dealer was Tom Bellemare and he stepped up and dealt with Festool on my behalf.  Once Tom left us  :'( I never did strike up a good relationship with another dealer. 

I agree with your observation about DeWalt and Bosch.

One thing the younger members here might not know is how expensive power tools were 30-40 years ago.  I still have some Porter Cable, Milwaukee and Skil tools that are 30-40+ years old. I recall how much some cost, and for others, I have seen the ads recently while going through old issues  Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding.  The tools back then cost a heck of a lot compared to what I was earning at the time. In some ways, they were like FT is now in terms of cost.  And they have lasted a long time because of the build quality.




  Batteries failing at a rate 3x greater than Bosch or DWalt.   Seems users on this site know more about the problems with Festool than the Festool USA service staff does, as they can make you feel as if that is the first time they ever heard of a problem, and yet, its written all over this forum. 



BTW, I marvel how DWalt and Bosch sell such high quality tools at low prices, and I have had nothing but great experiences with their tools, very very few failues, and at the prices they sell for, I would be OK with more failures.  Bottom line, the competition is getting better and better, which is good for us consumers.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2264
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #135 on: November 11, 2019, 11:27 AM »
Cheese, I have the Graco cordless.  Like you I do not like Dewalt, so the three batteries I bought are for that tool only.  There is a learning curve with use but is a great tool for smaller jobs.  I have a Titan airless, a forty year old Binks conventional and an older Wagner HVLP with a Fugi gun that covers all my other spraying.  I bought extra cup frames to keep thinner and also bought the larger cups offered for the Ultra to reduce the refilling the cup effect.  I did not buy the Ultra  for solvent base material as the only way it is grounded is with a grounded wire for solvent base material.  I do run acetone through mine for cleaning but do it in moderation and outdoors only.

Offline WillB

  • Posts: 13
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #136 on: November 11, 2019, 02:01 PM »
Interesting how the battery experiences can be so hit or miss...
So great to have these forums to hear others experiences.
BTW, when I do call Bosch or DW for the few problems I had, the service was FIRST CLASS, which is what I would expect from Festool, but its not the case.  Bosch now has Texting customer service.  I had to use this few months ago, and it was the painless customer service I ever experienced, a few texts up n back, on my timeline, and they sent a replacment, no need to return the defect.  Even customer service is stepping up with these toolmakers.

I had two TS55 REB batteries die in less than 1.5 years, with very light use.  I had two battery chargers fail over the same time.  CXS batteries, I spent more on replacement batteries than I would have paid for the Bosch 12v system with batteries, which has all the same drill accessories as the CXS, and retails for $99 on sale.  The system has been flawless for 2 years so far with intermediate use. 

Agreed on the price of tools 30+ years ago vs. today.  When I see the quality of these tools today, AND the low prices, I am blown away.  I just picked up the DW Atomic 4.5" circ saw last week for $99 on sale at Amazon, was soo impressed with this tool at this price point.  It even has an excellent dust extraction port that works VERY well.  Glad to see these other makers considering dust control in the design.  Festool stood alone in this area for years, which made me a Festool fan years ago.

I really appreciate the shared battery systems.  AS mentioned by prevous posters, Festool has not moved in that direction, which is too much cost and hassle for me to deal with.  Hence why, I wont buy any more Festool cordless tools.  The TS55REB is woth any battery hassles, as any cords on a track saw, specially when cutting outside the shop is nuissance.  In addition, the dust collection bag on the TS55REB far exceeded my expectations. 


Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 181
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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #137 on: November 11, 2019, 03:17 PM »
I was going to REPLY to this thread -
But WillB said it all in his REPLY #128.

Long a dedicated Festool buyer - I’m not selling any of them.
And... I’d still buy a unique Festool product.

But...
Festool’s “attitude” regarding taking responsibility for their products’ failures -
Will make me a Metabo/Mafell buyer of any like/kind tools going forward.

Sorry Festool.
You’ve wasted your “street cred”.
And destroyed your Customers’ loyalty.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 04:10 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26, CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides & Extensions, Plunge Routers: OF1400 EQ & OF1010, Sanders: RO125 FEQ Rotex, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail, DX93E Detail, Drills: C12 Cordless, CXS Cordless Compact Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Dominos: XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, DF 500 Tenon Joiner, VAC SYS: System Set, SE 2, Accessory Set | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 597
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #138 on: November 11, 2019, 10:26 PM »

One thing the younger members here might not know is how expensive power tools were 30-40 years ago.  I still have some Porter Cable, Milwaukee and Skil tools that are 30-40+ years old. I recall how much some cost, and for others, I have seen the ads recently while going through old issues  Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding.  The tools back then cost a heck of a lot compared to what I was earning at the time. In some ways, they were like FT is now in terms of cost.  And they have lasted a long time because of the build quality.


Yeah, I think a lot of us are aware of this. just look at how the price of tools that aren't festool or mafell go down year over year, just reverse things.

A lot of the price difference is per-internet, when folks basically had the local store.  Manufacturing changes in the past few decades makes a huge change. 

I buy a lot of Milwaukee stuff because I remember my father discovering them long ago and finding the massive difference between them and something from Sears.  Which is part of this too, there was a lot of junk back then too, but it's long since gone.  Survivor bias here. People see the stuff that lasted and think everything back then was good, it wasn't.   What it did have is simplicity.  A lot of old tools live because they are just very simple, very little to go wrong. Which if it just has one simple function is fine. But you say simplify a plunging tracksaw with variable speed and integrated dust collection, you just have an old circular saw which defeats the point.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1922
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #139 on: November 12, 2019, 11:03 AM »
A tool manufacturer's "street cred" is based on the vast majority of user's experiences with their tools as well as one's personal experience. The vast majority of Festool users seem to be satisfied and, based on my personal experience with both the tools and service, I'm more than satisfied. Every tool manufacturer has their problem tools, tool failures, and some service failures as well. It's just not possible to make tools without these human failings. It's true there are cheaper drill/drivers, impact drivers, routers, etc. on the market which also give great tool life and service. It's worth every buyer's time and effort to research a tool and buy the one that suit his/her needs and is within the right price range.
Randy

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #140 on: November 12, 2019, 11:56 AM »

Offline HarveyWildes

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #141 on: November 12, 2019, 12:27 PM »
Interesting how the battery experiences can be so hit or miss...

I had two TS55 REB batteries die in less than 1.5 years, with very light use...

I really appreciate the shared battery systems.  AS mentioned by prevous posters, Festool has not moved in that direction, which is too much cost and hassle for me to deal with.  Hence why, I wont buy any more Festool cordless tools.  The TS55REB is woth any battery hassles, as any cords on a track saw, specially when cutting outside the shop is nuissance.  In addition, the dust collection bag on the TS55REB far exceeded my expectations.


I'm pretty much with @WillB on this one.  I just got a new Milwaukee 4 in 1 driver.  In the process, I rounded up the three tools that it is replacing to sell or give away, along with two M12 batteries from 2010.  Those batteries are still in good shape after 9+ years.  Granted I don't use them every day, but the M12 tools in general are the most used battery powered tools in my shop.


At the same time, I love my Festool cordless track saw, despite the fact that the batteries lose charge on the shelf faster than any of my Milwaukee or DeWalt batteries.  It allows me to break down sheet goods inside in Colorado winters without fighting with extension cords.  Granted the Makita might do the job more reliably, but that would be another set of batteries that I don't have, and it's a fair amount of money just to run an experiment to see if it can compete with the Festool saw, even at Home Depot Black Friday prices.


In general, I've bought Festool tools that allow me to do something better - Domino for the functionality, saw, routers, and sanders for the integrated dust collection in an indoor shop in winter.  If Festool doesn't allow me to do it better, then I buy something else.  I got a Festool drill once and sold it pretty quickly when I realized that I kept reaching for my M12 stuff anyway.

Offline WillB

  • Posts: 13
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #142 on: November 12, 2019, 01:10 PM »
"street cred."
how perfect!  Its not a term we think of often when dealing with manufacturers, but so fitting here, well done...

Agreed on low price tools having failures too, of course.  I think most agree in this thread, when u pay $150 for a tool and 2 batteries, which would be say 4-5x more with Festool brand, u expect much more both in terms of reliability, service and warranty.  Based on this thead, often, that is not the case.

BTW, I too am curious about the Makita track saw as an alternative since it fits the Festool tracks. I read some ww magazine reviews where it scored tops, and maybe beat Festool.... cant recall if Festool was in the mix.  I have lots of Makita corded tools collected through the years, never a single failure, which is truly remarkable.  Japanese have excellent design and QC in general.   The only reason I dont have their battery tools, already engaged in other platforms that have larger selection of tools.  DW, Bosch and Milw selection is truly incredible.  BTW, I think Bosch and Milw 12V are interchageable, I read it somewhere, and the batteries sure look the same. 

I think Festool was ahead of the pack in innovation, first quality track saws, domino, Mega 2200 router, dust controlled sanders, etc. which allowed them premium prices as the tools were so unique and useful.  Very similar to apple products.  But there reaches a point, where competition starts to catch up, and the premium prices seems less justified.  With apple, the genius stores, the USA support (rare for electronics), its remarkable how so many continue to remain loyal and pay the premium prices, which demonstrates the model can work.  I wonder if Festool can continue design breakthrough tools too keep buyers coming... the Domino has been out for quite some time now.  Only so many ways to cut and join wood ;)   

Also, is it just me...but a thread such as this one, 10+ years ago on the FOG would be blasted by loyal supporters, the OP would prob. be blacklisted, or maybe banned.  Agreed?   
Kudos to the moderators for allowing TRUE free speech...

Most of us here are NOT wishing Festool any bad luck, or smearing.  Most of us will continue to buy Festool products in the future.  But its nice to see fellow ww being honest with each other vs. blind loyalty or fearing censorship. 


Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1922
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2019, 04:47 PM »
Well I wouldn’t sell any of my Festools unless I found I rarely or never used them (and that’s my fault for buying them in the first place). All my Festools have performed well without a problem. The TS55 is the most accurate saw I own. The OF1400 and 1010 are the best routers I ever owned. The Domino...Well I guess most would agree it’s the most versatile tool for joinery; reliable and easy to use. The VacSys, for me, is one of the most useful tools in my shop. My sanders are, for me, without question, the best sanders I’ve owned with the best dust collection (although I have more than need). I’m not trying argue that people haven’t had problems with their products or service but, overall, I think that those are in the minority. Are Festool tools worth it. For me they always have been. Are they good at public relations and communicating with their users; I’d say not very good.
Randy

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2019, 06:54 PM »

Also, is it just me...but a thread such as this one, 10+ years ago on the FOG would be blasted by loyal supporters, the OP would prob. be blacklisted, or maybe banned.  Agreed?   


Not agreed to at all.  Tomorrow I start my 11th year as a Moderator here.  We have always encouraged polite freedom of speech.  Those who couldn't follow that rule have been shown the door.  In the past ten years I suspect that number is less than one hundred for their actions on the public side of the forum in threads.  With the size of this forum that is a tiny number.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1292
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2019, 07:04 PM »
I'm not aware of anyone getting pushed around because of them "badmouthing" Festool, its products or service. Some people might come in to defend the brand or products, but moderators in general sit on the sideline.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2019, 07:32 PM »
I want to add this:  Over the years I have seen people go all in on tools.  Sometimes it almost seemed like adrenaline based.  Had to have the newest and be the first one to have one.

Woodworking, carpentry, and construction is about achieving the end result.  There are many ways to get there ranging from hand tools to ultimate power tools.

What has really stuck out in my mind is that over the last 7 or 8 years is that there is more of an expectation that a higher priced tool will GUARANTEE a better result.  And that it and the user experience will be PERFECT.

That is not reality.  A tool may help you in your experience but just because you spent a bunch of money on it doesn't mean that it is now the tool equivalent of a high performance or self driving car.  Buying a Ferrari doesn't make you a better driver.  (Actually Ferarri might not even sell you a car without you proving you can drive that car.)

Most of my tools are Festool, but I don't jump off the diving board once a new tool is introduced.  Tools are an expense and possibly an investment.  I would urge everyone here to take your time doing research and doing an honest evaluation of what your needs and expectations are before you do that research.  If it doesn't make sense to me, I ain't going to drop the coin for it not matter how cool or sexy it is.

Some might find these comments strange, but in reality that is similar to what the Festool "use it for thirty days" policy here in the US is about.

Go enjoy working with wood using whatever tools you find right for you.  Life is short and if Festool fits into your life - GREAT - and we have lots of guys and gals here with experience to try and help with your questions.  But if you decide on a Bosch, DeWalt, or other brand - go for it.

Peter

Offline kcufstoidi

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #147 on: November 13, 2019, 06:37 AM »

Also, is it just me...but a thread such as this one, 10+ years ago on the FOG would be blasted by loyal supporters, the OP would prob. be blacklisted, or maybe banned.  Agreed?   


Not agreed to at all.  Tomorrow I start my 11th year as a Moderator here.  We have always encouraged polite freedom of speech.  Those who couldn't follow that rule have been shown the door.  In the past ten years I suspect that number is less than one hundred for their actions on the public side of the forum in threads.  With the size of this forum that is a tiny number.

Peter Halle - Moderator

This wasn't even the case before Peter and Seth were moderators and Matthew S owned the forum. Matthew was definitely a different guy and the forum was an experiment. The only people that were blacklisted or banned were the same people and agitators that were causing problems on all the woodworking forums. It was definitely a different group then but a lot has evolved in the world of forums over the last 13 years.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 402
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #148 on: November 13, 2019, 12:38 PM »
I think the two strongest battery platforms out there are Milwaukee & Metabo. Milwaukee has always been a leader except for that horrific V-28 program...that still brings tears to my eyes.
...

The word "strongest" compasses quite a bit.  Comparing the 18v platforms: Milwaukee has a very broad range of products but the batteries and electronics in Makita seems to be better.

About four years back, my brother bought an 18v Milwaukee package at the same time that I bought an 18v Makita package.  The tools perform well enough that I would suggest people buy whichever fits better (i.e. ergonomics).  The noticeable difference is in the batteries, with Makita having longer run times and shorter charge times.

Now in all fairness, Makita had issues with some of their early 18v batteries and have since made improvements.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6540
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #149 on: November 13, 2019, 02:49 PM »
Cheese, I have the Graco cordless.  Like you I do not like Dewalt, so the three batteries I bought are for that tool only.  There is a learning curve with use but is a great tool for smaller jobs.  I have a Titan airless, a forty year old Binks conventional and an older Wagner HVLP with a Fugi gun that covers all my other spraying.  I bought extra cup frames to keep thinner and also bought the larger cups offered for the Ultra to reduce the refilling the cup effect.

Thanks for that @rst I went to Sherwin Williams yesterday and asked if the Graco cordless guns are ever put on sale or if they ever run a special. I was told sometimes... but not very often.  [sad] 

Funny...they had a huge Festool sign hanging from the ceiling and underneath it there were 8 small boxes of sandpaper for a DTS, an ETS 125 and a DX 93. That was it...no other Festool products in the entire store.  [huh]