Quote from: Steven Owen on October 23, 2017, 01:23 PM

The nearest thing you have is a DW 780, Bosch and Makita.  That’s a pretty huge gap.

What about the 12" Milwaukee with digital angle finder? It doesn't get a lot of press, but I heard it's an excellent saw and rivals Kapex in the dust collection department.

It is physically very large, extremely heavy and the dust extraction isn't a patch on the Kapex, We had two (both brand spanking new) on hire a few years back and whilst they have bags of power the weight issue (they are the only mitre saw I've ever used which absolutely needed 2 men to carry them across site) was something everybody was concerned about. As a point of comparison, at the time I owned a Makita LS1013 and was regularly also using an LS1214 and a deWalt DW718. None of those tools was anywhere near as back breakingly awkward to move about as the Milwaukee. Haven't tried th Bosch glider, though.
 
My own Kapex (110 volt) is 16 months+ old and still working away nicely. Easily the most accurate and easy to use SCMS I've ever used, but obviously the motor issues some people have do tend to lurk at the back of my mind sometimes. Would I buy another one if this one failed - probably (but that would be that)

Quote from: serge0n on October 23, 2017, 02:43 PM

Quote from: Steven Owen on October 23, 2017, 01:23 PM

The nearest thing you have is a DW 780, Bosch and Makita.  That’s a pretty huge gap.

What about the 12" Milwaukee with digital angle finder? It doesn't get a lot of press, but I heard it's an excellent saw and rivals Kapex in the dust collection department.

It is physically very large, extremely heavy and the dust extraction isn't a patch on the Kapex, We had two (both brand spanking new) on hire a few years back and whilst they have bags of power the weight issue (they are the only mitre saw I've ever used which absolutely needed 2 men to carry them across site) was something everybody was concerned about. As a point of comparison, at the time I owned a Makita LS1013 and was regularly also using an LS1214 and a deWalt DW718. None of those tools was anywhere near as back breakingly awkward to move about as the Milwaukee. Haven't tried th Bosch glider, though.
 
My own Kapex (110 volt) is 16 months+ old and still working away nicely. Easily the most accurate and easy to use SCMS I've ever used, but obviously the motor issues some people have do tend to lurk at the back of my mind sometimes. Would I buy another one if this one failed - probably (but that would be that)

I have a DW 782 (Second Cousin to DW 780) It’s a heavy Son of a _____!  It would be hard to call it mobile by any means at 58 pounds.  I have a rolling stand that makes it manageable.  The newer Dewalts are lighter with a trade off on some durability.  It lacks the bevel accuracy of the Kapex.  I have to use Woodpeckers and Incra accessories to improve the Mark.  It ‘s held up well and been used outdoors in the winter when it’s -5 F outside without fail.

I’d be nervous to use a $2K Kapex in the bitter cold.  They don’t look like they made to operate outside in the wintertime.

Doesn't look like they made it work outside in the wintertime?  Don't tell David:



Peter

There is a thread here with that video.  In the thread you can read that David was not compensated for the video, and by looking at his post you can see that he DOES live and work in a cold climate.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/david-askew-integrity-construction-%27i-can%27t-afford-to-buy-bad-tools%27/

Peter

Wow! He is brave...using his Kapex outdoors in such condition.

Mine is used outdoors (on my driveway) occasionally but only if it is summer, sunny and dry!

Cold climate...in the winter, my shop has an average temperature of 10 to 12C (when the heater is on) and much lower when the garage door is opened for photo-shooting purposes. On cold days (-15C and below outside), I hibernate and don't woodwork! I do all my finishing in the shop and then move the finished article indoors right away...repeat the same for every coat till it is done.

Life is much easier in the summer.

I wouldn’t want to use any $2k tool that wasn’t explicitly designed to operate outdoors.   

A friend of mine owns a cabinet shop and they buy Kapex for site work.  Every year they buy a new one and the older ones get retired down the chain based on condition and accuracy.

FWIW...this is the same method that digital calipers exchange hands from the aeronautical industry. Once you hit that .001”-.0015” threshold, they’re put down the road. Most trades don’t need that type of precision or repeatability, so there’s a huge market for these gently used calipers.

I’d be nervous to use a $2K Kapex in the bitter cold.  They don’t look like they made to operate outside in the wintertime.

It would probably manage better than others. In freezing temperature one of the most vulnerable parts is drive belt. Unlike almost any other SCMS, Kapex 120 does not have one, it's gear driven.

I don’t know that the Kapex is strictly a climate controlled use tool, but I do know that I do not wish to subject mine to the rigors of day in and day out general use. I bought mine strictly for fine finishing. For heavier applications, I resort to my other SCMS.

I don’t do it this way because I want to baby the Kapex, but because I want the integrity of the Kapex not to be compromised by heavy use.

Precisely why I have a smaller deWalt SCMS for the more general sort of work where the super accuracy of the Kapex would just not be necessary

In freezing temperature one of the most vulnerable parts is drive belt. Unlike almost any other SCMS, Kapex 120 does not have one, it's gear driven.

The older Makitas (LS1013, LS1213/14, etc) also had a gear drive as do the current LS1016 and LS1018 models. But the bevel scales on them all are fairly illegible

I have a Kapex and so far it is trouble free (fingers crossed).  I read this entire thread tonight hoping (but not expecting) for an update from a Festool.  Alas, seems there are still a fair number of issues (who knows how many or what percentage of units have an issue).  No response from Festool as I assumed.

For now I will go back to using my saw, hoping it’s keeps working and then check back on some of these Kapex threads in a few months.

Just don’t play this track while you’re working in your shop.  It’s just bad luck.

I have been watching the Kapex scenario play out for years.  I turned my buddy onto Festool, and he's bought everything over the last few years, (not everything, but almost!!) including the Kapex.  I do more finish carpentry work than he does, but I also do decks, and basement build outs.  I found for the price of the Kapex, I bought a DWS 703, Bosch sliding 10", and a Bosch sliding 8 1/2".  I've used the 10" Bosch for almost 20 years in the shop.  The DeWalt and smaller sliding saw go out on the job.  Everything is covered that I need.  I don't want to deal with 12" runout.  That configuration covers it all.
Couldn't be happier with the Festool name tools I own.  Wouldn't do anything different.  Kinda glad I never jumped on the Kapex bandwagon.

Hmmm, if the "armature" keeps blowing up on these saws; working out in the sub zero arctic winter would probably be
the best thing for it.   

My knees are what are getting warmer. Phantom soreness flashbacks.
I finally watched the video and noticed all of the TREX.
It was probably a totally different product then (back when it would get little dots everywhere from mold), but anyway, memories of carrying 20 feet of springy fun-times, driving me into the ground with each footstep.   

WOW , looks like my kapex is / was not the only lemon . I bought my first kapex a month or 2 after being released in the Netherlands. What grabbed my Euro's was the stated accuracy and of course the dust collection.
Well I needed to make over 400 dubbel verstek { double mitre } joints in some thin 4mm red pine, only 4 inches in length so not to big a cut.
After the first 20, it was no longer cutting accurately   
Took it directly back to TTS in Mijdrecht , explained the problem again  to their tech guy. After 2 hours of trying to "tune "the tool and getting the lasers to work correctly -
He and I gave , only to be told be said techie - "It's a Monday morning Machine " 
SO, was sent a new machine direct from Germany. Despite being told it was all ok , it never met the sales talk, never cutting the double angles 100% accurately, since then , now coming up to 6 years iirc , it has had 2 services , 1 in the UK and 1 in France. It's now having a 4th service as on the 3rd , here in the Netherlands, they did not dail the lasers in properly, and after the first cut after return the lower internal dust shroud broke, making the toop unusable 

My advice - DON"T BUY A KAPEX, next mitre saw purchase will be the BOSCH 12"one or DeWalt as these have larger capacity, just as accurate and 1/3rd cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth

Admirable that you continued to use the saw for that length of time. 

Peter

6yrs? That admirable point is an understatement. I would have given up in 6 months or so in such circumstances as described by the OP.

I am currently raging!! 😡
I have owned a Dewalt DW718 for over 10 years and it’s never missed a beat, it has slight blade wobble and I’ve replaced the motor bearings and bushes once. I decided to upgrade to the Kapex KS120 after seeing so many rave about them. When it arrived I must admit I fell in love straight away. Such an accurate saw and the dust extraction is second to none.
I’ve been using it lightly for 3 weeks now and today it decided not to work, it tries but the motor seems  jammed and it stinks?
I cannot believe I never read any of these threads on FOG before buying it, I feel so let down. The price for the saw is so expensive but I was willing to make the investment, I could have bought 3 new Dewalys for the same price as a Kapex with the UG Stand.