Author Topic: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)  (Read 10120 times)

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Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2020, 10:25 AM »
Just switched to your replaceable ZCI system (which I really like) but have been using my own shop made fence for some time, which includes an integrated stop for repeatable narrow cuts.  All tool-less and changes out in a minute or less.  I like the concept of the Cube, but other than losing 1/4" - 1/2" in depth (hasn't been a problem) with my fences, curious what other benefits there are in using the Cube?
Grev,
Do you cut into it? How is the gap when mitering?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 10:29 AM by Colliflower »

Offline Grev

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2020, 10:37 AM »
@Grev - Nice fence.  Does the Festool hold-down clamps still work.. From my perspective, the beauty of the cube is the addition of ZCI fence without removing any OEM features. Basically its net positive.

-Chris
I get that .. the hold-down clamp works on the 3/8" fences, but need to shave a hair off the back corner (1/16" or so) for the 1/2" fences as shown.  Does not work on the side with the slide stop, but hasn't been an issue for me.

Offline Grev

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2020, 11:14 AM »

Hi, Grev.
Good question.
1.) One doesn't have to make what you made. Just bolt on/off.
2.) Although your fence gives support, it doesn't give full ZC support because you won't want to cut into your fence.
3.) Taller support/ZC
4.) Although your fence is quite nice, doesn't it function just as the stock fence except the stop?
5.) True ZC for all your angles, dedicated.
6.) ZC forever, with either the turning of the Cube or the making of another Cube.
I like your fence, Grev.
Thank you!

I like the Cube and can see your points, I think it's an innovative idea.  I actually do cut into these to get the zci feature.  I make the extensions a little long, so I can move the fence in and make a fresh cut once in a while.  As far as your question (#4) .. answer is "not at all" .. I made the zci fence for narrow cuts and cut-offs.  As you probably know, and maybe experienced, the Kapex fence doesn't close up very tight (photo) and allows narrow cut pieces to get caught and thrown.  My shop build ZCI prevents this entirely.  Can cut repetitive small pieces without fear of them being flung .. they stay right in place.  Because I rarely cut material thicker than 1.5", I don't need a taller fence, but could make these taller if I needed that. I realize the Cube would be better for someone who cuts a lot of angles, especially using the tilt feature.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2020, 11:36 AM »

Hi, Grev.
Good question.
1.) One doesn't have to make what you made. Just bolt on/off.
2.) Although your fence gives support, it doesn't give full ZC support because you won't want to cut into your fence.
3.) Taller support/ZC
4.) Although your fence is quite nice, doesn't it function just as the stock fence except the stop?
5.) True ZC for all your angles, dedicated.
6.) ZC forever, with either the turning of the Cube or the making of another Cube.
I like your fence, Grev.
Thank you!

I like the Cube and can see your points, I think it's an innovative idea.  I actually do cut into these to get the zci feature.  I make the extensions a little long, so I can move the fence in and make a fresh cut once in a while.  As far as your question (#4) .. answer is "not at all" .. I made the zci fence for narrow cuts and cut-offs.  As you probably know, and maybe experienced, the Kapex fence doesn't close up very tight (photo) and allows narrow cut pieces to get caught and thrown.  My shop build ZCI prevents this entirely.  Can cut repetitive small pieces without fear of them being flung .. they stay right in place.  Because I rarely cut material thicker than 1.5", I don't need a taller fence, but could make these taller if I needed that. I realize the Cube would be better for someone who cuts a lot of angles, especially using the tilt feature.

Nice.
Yes, I was hasty in reply and didn't think your fences extended to a full ZC position. They are very nicely made. The stop is quite handy.
As I did my experiments with cutting on the Kapex without ZC, the flinging of cut-offs seemed to be even more than with other saws. This might be due to the "ramp" feature behind the blade (partially) for the dust collection, so they just don't shoot back--they shoot back and up! Your ZC for this would be very handy.
Thanks, Grev.
I'm glad you like the throat plate ZCI. Remember that when replacing the insert, flexing the insert is key to a smooth in/out.

Offline manuc

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2020, 08:22 PM »
Has anyone purchased one of these yet? I was thinking about getting one but didn’t want to drop the money to buy one until I’ve seen some reviews.

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2020, 01:49 AM »
Hi, there is one on it's way to me, I am very exited to get it and will do a review after I had a chance to try it out.
 
I ordered a universal zero clearance fence from Jack a couple of months ago, figuring I would adapt it a little so the dustchute clears it, and it would be thinner and more stable than one I would try to make myself, and I could order some extra sliding fences from festool so I could leave the profiles glued to one pair, and swap them for bare ones if needed.
When Jack learned I would be using the fence on my kapex I got the generous offer to wait for a kapex specific version at no extra cost, which I happily accepted, and the fence is currently on it's way to Belgium.

Offline dlu

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2020, 06:16 PM »
Just switched to your replaceable ZCI system (which I really like) but have been using my own shop made fence for some time, which includes an integrated stop for repeatable narrow cuts.  All tool-less and changes out in a minute or less.  I like the concept of the Cube, but other than losing 1/4" - 1/2" in depth (hasn't been a problem) with my fences, curious what other benefits there are in using the Cube?

One huge benefit would be getting back the clearance for the hold down clamps.

Offline dlu

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2020, 06:22 PM »
Can the retaining grove be cut on the Kapex, or is the blade kerf too narrow?

Also, how much do the sliding upper wings of the fence stick out?

Offline bigshaw929

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2020, 08:49 AM »
Just ordered mine last night. Can’t wait to get this new kapex set up and streamlining some of my production processes.


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Offline Vondawg

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2020, 12:37 PM »
@Colliflower ..I have the Colliflower ZCI on the Kapex and Sawstop and really like them, I have ply on mine as well and you do have to remember to re-adjust after Left/45, straight, and Right/45, ect. The Cube would eliminate that move.
I didnt see cuts being made swinging/mitering Left to Right ...it’s not just for bevel cuts, right?
Thanks
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 12:42 PM by Vondawg »
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Chris Perren

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2021, 11:20 PM »
Really like the cube although I made mine at a height of 2".  Basically 1" above and below the dado... Super easy to make.

 

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2021, 02:34 PM »
Can the retaining grove be cut on the Kapex, or is the blade kerf too narrow?

Also, how much do the sliding upper wings of the fence stick out?

Hello.
Yes, the retaining grooves can be cut on any saw. The slot just needs to be about 1/8" wide.
Sliding upper wings of the fence? Not sure if I know what you mean. The fence should be just about exactly where the OEM fence is. And they butt up to the cube. They can be slid out just the same as with the stock base.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2021, 02:37 PM »
@Colliflower ..I have the Colliflower ZCI on the Kapex and Sawstop and really like them, I have ply on mine as well and you do have to remember to re-adjust after Left/45, straight, and Right/45, ect. The Cube would eliminate that move.
I didnt see cuts being made swinging/mitering Left to Right ...it’s not just for bevel cuts, right?
Thanks
Hello.
Yes, that's correct. It's not just for bevel cuts--it's for all cuts!
There are clearances for all bevels/miters.
Was using mine just this morn....

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2021, 02:40 PM »
Really like the cube although I made mine at a height of 2".  Basically 1" above and below the dado... Super easy to make.

 

Very nice, Chris! Thanks for sharing. Glad you like it. Yeah, I think I'm going to be cutting my cube height too. There is clearance at 3.5" for the sliding action--but not much. I'll probably cut mine down to 3".

Offline ben_r_

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2021, 05:29 PM »
Pretty cool and definitely a creative approach! Any plans to make something similar for the Bosch Glide? I love your ZCI on my Bosch Glide and Sawstop by the way!!!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2021, 06:08 AM »
Pretty cool and definitely a creative approach! Any plans to make something similar for the Bosch Glide? I love your ZCI on my Bosch Glide and Sawstop by the way!!!

Hi, Ben.
Thanks! Yes, I remember our communications. So glad to hear you're liking the other ZCIs. On another note regarding our communications previously, I hope cutting that 45-degree has become easier on the SS ZCI. I won't post on here how I do it, because it's a bit dangerous and don't want to be the one to "give instructions" on it. But it works great for me! ;)
Yes, the 12" Bosch Glide is the next saw I plan on making the Cube for. And then probably the 12" DW780/782. Should be just a matter of time.

Offline Mini Me

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2021, 04:59 AM »
BTW: I will be making the dust collection video this morn.

Link to video? I can't see how the cube can not affect DE but I am going to put one on my Bosch Glide this week and will have a play with what can be done with shape to minimise the problems it must introduce. I think the cube is an awesome idea if the DE problems can be overcome or at least minimised.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2021, 11:16 AM »
BTW: I will be making the dust collection video this morn.

Link to video? I can't see how the cube can not affect DE but I am going to put one on my Bosch Glide this week and will have a play with what can be done with shape to minimise the problems it must introduce. I think the cube is an awesome idea if the DE problems can be overcome or at least minimised.

Hello, Mini Me :)
The link for the video is in this forum/topic on pg. 1. Just go to Pg. 1 and scroll down toward the bottom.
And yes, the dust collection has been quite decent for me. As Chris mentioned in an earlier post, I too cut the height down a bit and it increased the collection even more. Per my use/experience, dust collection is still really good with the Cube.

Offline Mini Me

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2021, 07:54 PM »
Maybe this needs a change in work practices and my short range thinking. Your video does not show cutting timber/MDF etc over the full sliding range of the saw just a simple drop saw motion. I suppose for cutting something full width in sliding mode the cube is not necessary or a much lower version if indexing the zero kerf cut against a mark is needed. I will knock one up shortly and see how it goes as I think it is a brilliant idea but not at the expense of breathing dust laden air, nothing is worth that.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2021, 08:14 PM »
I expect the Cube to affect dust extraction. However, no miter saws -- with or without the Cube -- are fool-proof in dust collection. No matter what fence or dust extractor is used with the Kapex, wearing a N95 mask is the only reliable dust protection when operating the saw.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2021, 10:10 AM »
Maybe this needs a change in work practices and my short range thinking. Your video does not show cutting timber/MDF etc over the full sliding range of the saw just a simple drop saw motion. I suppose for cutting something full width in sliding mode the cube is not necessary or a much lower version if indexing the zero kerf cut against a mark is needed. I will knock one up shortly and see how it goes as I think it is a brilliant idea but not at the expense of breathing dust laden air, nothing is worth that.

Yes, I agree. Please post your results. As you mentioned, cutting the full width would not be affected by the Cube since the dust collection is right behind the blade, and when it's in front of the Cube, shouldn't be a difference. However, once the dust shroud is above or behind the Cube, that's when the difference should occur. I look forward to seeing your results. As I noted previously, I haven't had a huge difference in DC between Cube and not. Yes, a difference, but not a big one. Thanks for liking this design, and it will be neat to see what you come up with and how you make it. This "fence" is really one of my favorite projects/designs that I've had for quite some time.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2021, 10:11 AM »
I expect the Cube to affect dust extraction. However, no miter saws -- with or without the Cube -- are fool-proof in dust collection. No matter what fence or dust extractor is used with the Kapex, wearing a N95 mask is the only reliable dust protection when operating the saw.
Quite true, Chuck. And N95 masks are hard to come by these days!

Offline Mini Me

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2021, 06:49 PM »
Maybe this needs a change in work practices and my short range thinking. Your video does not show cutting timber/MDF etc over the full sliding range of the saw just a simple drop saw motion. I suppose for cutting something full width in sliding mode the cube is not necessary or a much lower version if indexing the zero kerf cut against a mark is needed. I will knock one up shortly and see how it goes as I think it is a brilliant idea but not at the expense of breathing dust laden air, nothing is worth that.

Yes, I agree. Please post your results. As you mentioned, cutting the full width would not be affected by the Cube since the dust collection is right behind the blade, and when it's in front of the Cube, shouldn't be a difference. However, once the dust shroud is above or behind the Cube, that's when the difference should occur. I look forward to seeing your results. As I noted previously, I haven't had a huge difference in DC between Cube and not. Yes, a difference, but not a big one. Thanks for liking this design, and it will be neat to see what you come up with and how you make it. This "fence" is really one of my favorite projects/designs that I've had for quite some time.

I must not have been clear, I think the cube will affect the dust collection hugely especially on saws that do not have the in shroud extraction of the Kapex. Most saws rely on the dust being ejected by the blade into a crude collection gizmo at the rear and underneath the blade shroud. Certainly that is the method that Bosch have used. For this to work in any fashion at all it relies on a clear path through the fence opening back to the debris collection point.

I would be interested in dust sampling measurements with and without the cube to see the difference. Mitre saws can be very indiscriminate on dust debris ejection and it requires very powerful dust extraction along with good shrouding to overcome the problem. keep in mind that the debris you can see are not the problem t is the sub micron dust you can't see that has the health effect. As good as it is the Festool answer to dust extraction on the Kapex is primarily aimed at the visible debris issue and not the fine sub micron dust emissions. In every video I see with the Kapex if the light and camera angle is right fine dust can be seen being sprayed into the air. It has the best dust collection but the bar is set very very low.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2021, 10:56 AM »


I must not have been clear, I think the cube will affect the dust collection hugely especially on saws that do not have the in shroud extraction of the Kapex. Most saws rely on the dust being ejected by the blade into a crude collection gizmo at the rear and underneath the blade shroud. Certainly that is the method that Bosch have used. For this to work in any fashion at all it relies on a clear path through the fence opening back to the debris collection point.

I would be interested in dust sampling measurements with and without the cube to see the difference. Mitre saws can be very indiscriminate on dust debris ejection and it requires very powerful dust extraction along with good shrouding to overcome the problem. keep in mind that the debris you can see are not the problem t is the sub micron dust you can't see that has the health effect. As good as it is the Festool answer to dust extraction on the Kapex is primarily aimed at the visible debris issue and not the fine sub micron dust emissions. In every video I see with the Kapex if the light and camera angle is right fine dust can be seen being sprayed into the air. It has the best dust collection but the bar is set very very low.
[/quote]

Hello, Mini. Yes, I understand. Were you able to test? I got the impression that you were going to mock up a comparable device and test. Maybe I misunderstood.
When giving my opinion about the DC, I wasn't thinking of other saws--only the Kapex. In regard to the "Shouldn't make much of a difference," my point was when the blade/saw was fully extended forward, in front of the fence, with the dust collector shroud in front of the fence too. I don't see how the Cube would make much of a difference with that part of the cut. Once the blade is pushed back toward the fence, once the shroud is above or behind the Cube, that is where the difference in DC will be made. However, as you mentioned, if the micro dust (which no miter saw is fantastic at collecting) is the issue, I would almost think that the Cube would be beneficial/better than no Cube, since it would help to keep the micro dust in a lower position as opposed to shoot it out the back, shooting upward, into a big plume. (If working outside, out the back would be better, but if in a shop, probably not).
I'm hoping that others post on here about the DC results of the Cube. As noted, my DC has still been great when compared to other saws. When the dust hits the Cube, it largely shoots up, into the shroud. More specifically, to a large degree, the dust shoots into the ZC channel, which is the upward shape of a blade and channels directly up to the shroud.
I will make the disclaimer that I'm not the dust collection king. I bought my Kapex because it's a fantastic tool, and I'm sure I have lots of room to improve. Before the testing of the Cube, I didn't even hook up my Kapex to a vacuum, because my cuts on it were few and the dust shot into an area easy to clean up. 
Good conversation. I'd love to hear what others have to say about the DC with the Cube.

Offline Chris Perren

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2021, 06:30 PM »
Although I'm a hobbyist, I'm happy with the cube and dust collection on my older Kapex (EB). As shown above in my post, my cube is only about 2" tall which works best for me.  Overall I'm happy with it.  - Chris     

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2021, 07:35 AM »
Although I'm a hobbyist, I'm happy with the cube and dust collection on my older Kapex (EB). As shown above in my post, my cube is only about 2" tall which works best for me.  Overall I'm happy with it.  - Chris     

Thanks for letting us know, Chris. And it's very good to know that the mounting pattern is the same for the older models.
I would think that cutting the Cube to 2" (as you have done) would maximize dust collection and clearances. Please let me know if you ever need product support.

Offline Mini Me

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2021, 06:26 AM »
I lashed together a version of the cube for my Bosch Glide and I have to say I am surprised at how little it affects the dust extraction with one proviso. My dust extraction system is very powerful in fact it is a hot rodded Clearvue which runs way faster than a stock one so someone with a less capable extractor might get different results but I tend  to think not. if they already have good dust control then it should be just as good or very close.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2021, 11:06 AM »
I lashed together a version of the cube for my Bosch Glide and I have to say I am surprised at how little it affects the dust extraction with one proviso. My dust extraction system is very powerful in fact it is a hot rodded Clearvue which runs way faster than a stock one so someone with a less capable extractor might get different results but I tend  to think not. if they already have good dust control then it should be just as good or very close.

Very neat to get a second opinion on this! Yes, I was quite surprised at how little it affected dust collection too. Thanks for making one and letting us know. The next saw to make a Cube for is the Bosch Glide. I'd be curious to see your version :)

Offline Mini Me

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2021, 07:47 PM »
My version is a lash up and could not be sold, it took about 30 minutes to make after working out how to do it. There are four holes along the back of the fence and it got bolted to that. I am involved in other things including dust extraction on a commercial basis and I don't know if I have enough time at the moment to develop it for the Glide as a product to sell but I think it would be far more simple that the Kapex.

Offline Colliflower

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Re: New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2021, 08:37 AM »
My version is a lash up and could not be sold, it took about 30 minutes to make after working out how to do it. There are four holes along the back of the fence and it got bolted to that. I am involved in other things including dust extraction on a commercial basis and I don't know if I have enough time at the moment to develop it for the Glide as a product to sell but I think it would be far more simple that the Kapex.

Hi, Mini.
Yeah, I was just thinking that what you came up with would be interesting to see.
It is my plan to develop the Cube for other saws, with the Bosch Glide being next. (I have this saw too and use it quite frequently--and it is very popular.)
Thanks for commenting and letting us know your results.