Author Topic: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide  (Read 50431 times)

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Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #180 on: February 10, 2019, 09:20 PM »
And when you use right side and left side they are at the ends of the material being cut not on top correct?  That’s the cumbersome part. The space between the 2 blue squares is the length of the material being cut.

Not certain I truly understand your question but I'm going to give answering it a shot.

The squares come off and go on so easily I do not find it an issue. I find it areal advantage. This eliminates all the torque on the guide rail.

Most times you'll need to clear the cut table for the next piece. If not just slide the assembly forward. Back to the clearing the table----remove the square/arm assembly(s), set aside, lift rail, clear table, set new work piece, place rail randomly, pop on squares/arms, set stops to edge, cut, repeat.

Tom

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #181 on: February 10, 2019, 09:21 PM »
It’s clear as day on the tso website in the picture that is $325. The stops are at either end. Just saying that it’s harder to put on and take off when it’s not just place on top like the Seneca set up.

Yes, they are at the ends. Now I understand your first question and I believe I answered it correctly.

Tom

Offline glass1

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #182 on: February 10, 2019, 09:24 PM »
So work flow with 1 side only would be first a random rip to establish a straight or jointed edge. Second a square crosscut of said jointed edge. Than using  the tso guide with just one side square to said square edge one rips parallel edge. Just saying with other systems one can first parellel both edges and than cross cut. To this with both left and right sides with tso system the blue squares must be at the end of the material.

Online Mike Goetzke

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #183 on: February 10, 2019, 09:34 PM »
@tjbnwi  great video. Over the weekend I was using my PE square for the real first time. I see in your video you used pre-finished ply. I was cutting some MDF which is fairly smooth yet the rubber on the bottom of the track was still biting pretty good. I had to sort of shake/bounce the track to try to make sure the square was in contact with the end of the board.

Can you share and tricks of the trade on this?

Thanks

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #184 on: February 10, 2019, 09:39 PM »
So work flow with 1 side only would be first a random rip to establish a straight or jointed edge. Second a square crosscut of said jointed edge. Than using  the tso guide with just one side square to said square edge one rips parallel edge. Just saying with other systems one can first parellel both edges and than cross cut. To this with both left and right sides with tso system the blue squares must be at the end of the material.

My work flow; (assumes you've set the stop to desired with of cut)

Straight line one long reference edge. This can all be done with the TSO PG's on the rail. I use the anti kickback device that comes with the TS saws to set the rail off the factory edge. You can see how I do this starting at the 40 second mark in this video; 

Reverse rail and set the stop to the fresh edge. Make first sizing cut. Raise backed of rail enough to clear work piece with the stop(s), slide forward, slide the cut piece far enough from the next piece tube cut for stops to locate, locate stop(s), make next curt, repeat.

Depending on number of cross cuts needed they'll be done on the MFT's or using the GRS (again an arm can be attached while making the cross cuts).

To the best of my knowledge the TSO system is the only system that can make parallel cuts with a single arm.

Tom



Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #185 on: February 10, 2019, 09:43 PM »
@tjbnwi  great video. Over the weekend I was using my PE square for the real first time. I see in your video you used pre-finished ply. I was cutting some MDF which is fairly smooth yet the rubber on the bottom of the track was still biting pretty good. I had to sort of shake/bounce the track to try to make sure the square was in contact with the end of the board.

Can you share and tricks of the trade on this?

Thanks

The correction for this is raising the toe (the toe is the splinter guard edge) of the rail enough to get the rail to slide on the heel c-channel bottom edge.

I hope to get to more videos this week---no promises (hey that could be a song....).

Tom

Offline Chris Perren

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #186 on: February 10, 2019, 09:46 PM »
Thanks Tom. 

In my opinion, the GRS 16 was a game changer using my track saws. I would never be without it... If you own a track saw then this is a must have product. The upcoming addition of the TSO parallel guides adds unbelievable accuracy..

I've owned the different different brands of parallel guides (Woodpecker, Seneca, Precision, Rip, Festool) which ALL are accurate BUT also a pain to install and remove.  The beauty of the GRS system is how quick it installs and remove.  And the TSO system make it a must have....  So looking forward to the TSO parallel system..             
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:01 PM by Chris Perren »

Online Mike Goetzke

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #187 on: February 10, 2019, 10:42 PM »
Thanks Tom. 

In my opinion, the GRS 16 was a game changer using my track saws. I would never be without it... If you own a track saw then this is a must have product. The upcoming addition of the TSO parallel guides adds unbelievable accuracy..

I've owned the different different brands of parallel guides (Woodpecker, Seneca, Precision, Rip, Festool) which ALL are accurate BUT also a pain to install and remove.  The beauty of the GRS system is how quick it installs and remove.  And the TSO system make it a must have....  So looking forward to the TSO parallel system..           

Only if your track is straight  [sad].

I have two Makita 55", one Makita 118", and one Festool 75" tracks. Of coarse when I go to the big box with my cordless Makita, track, and GRS-16 PE to show off how to break down a 4' x 8' sheet in the parking lot I find out my cut will be almost 1/4" off across 48" from my measurement from the ends. I blamed it on the square.

When I got home I drew a nice square line with my WP square. Duplicated the 1/4" error with this rail. I put the PE on my other three tracks and they were perfect. I put the rails against each other on the non anti-chip edge and all but the one touched along the entire length. Now I need to get a replacement rail.

So, even if the GRS-16 PE is perfect your rails better be too.


Offline tallgrass

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #188 on: February 11, 2019, 12:43 AM »
I had problems with my festool rails with them having "bends". I cut the strait portions and made convenient smaller pieces and threw out the bent sections..... Very irritating. I now check every rail I get to make sure.

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #189 on: February 11, 2019, 05:53 AM »
Tom, thanks for the videos and responses. You don't have to provide them yet you continue to do so. I hope you don't get burnt out and leave the forum some day like past contributors.

I was using Seneca guides the other day on 5x5 bb with two joined 1400 rails. The whole process was clunky and annoying. Rip a clean edge. Attach both guides to one side of rail butted against each other. Use a woodpecker guide stop Rule under rail to set one Seneca guide. Use a square to set second Seneca stop to first stop. Remove one Seneca guide and put on other end of rail. Rip to desired width. It works, it's extremely accurate, but it's a real pain to do each time on multiple sheets. I wasn't considering the TSO PG but now I am after watching the video. On 5x5 bb I bet a single PG would be sufficient.

Something that isn't clear to me. When you're doing the first straight line cut does the square have to be on the rail to make a square edge to attach to when using the PG in the next cut?
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Offline lerabotperche

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #190 on: February 11, 2019, 06:06 AM »
thank you Tom ! <3

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #191 on: February 11, 2019, 09:07 AM »
Tom, thanks for the videos and responses. You don't have to provide them yet you continue to do so. I hope you don't get burnt out and leave the forum some day like past contributors.

I was using Seneca guides the other day on 5x5 bb with two joined 1400 rails. The whole process was clunky and annoying. Rip a clean edge. Attach both guides to one side of rail butted against each other. Use a woodpecker guide stop Rule under rail to set one Seneca guide. Use a square to set second Seneca stop to first stop. Remove one Seneca guide and put on other end of rail. Rip to desired width. It works, it's extremely accurate, but it's a real pain to do each time on multiple sheets. I wasn't considering the TSO PG but now I am after watching the video. On 5x5 bb I bet a single PG would be sufficient.

Something that isn't clear to me. When you're doing the first straight line cut does the square have to be on the rail to make a square edge to attach to when using the PG in the next cut?

The square does not have to be on the rail to make the initial straight line cut. The square with the TPG that will rip up to 30" on the rail is pretty easy to move around. The longer TPG, I would remove (in our case we just use a different rail). I try to do the videos with what others may have in mind.

For your 5x5 I'd use the 75" or 90" holy rail.

Tom

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #192 on: February 11, 2019, 10:14 AM »
Thanks Tom. I was considering the 75" rail for this purpose since I'll be using a lot of 5x5 BB. Considering the recommended rail overhang is around 6" at each end of the material, will the 75" rail plus the TSO GRS-16 PE be okay or 'cutting' it close for 60" 5x5 BB? (Pun intended)

Thanks
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Offline dr.r.lam

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #193 on: February 11, 2019, 06:45 PM »
This link is to a video I shot today of the GRS & TPG set up as a single arm on one of my 3000 rails. In it I tried to address some of the question asked on this forum.



A question I get a lot after a video like this---yes, I have over 40 rails....

Tom


Thank you so much for the video Tom.
Your contributions to FOG are invaluable, especially for complete novices such as myself.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us!

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #194 on: February 11, 2019, 07:13 PM »
Thanks Tom. I was considering the 75" rail for this purpose since I'll be using a lot of 5x5 BB. Considering the recommended rail overhang is around 6" at each end of the material, will the 75" rail plus the TSO GRS-16 PE be okay or 'cutting' it close for 60" 5x5 BB? (Pun intended)

Thanks

The entry overhang is more critical than the exit overhang. Entry you really want to be able to plunge without hitting the workpiece and both gibbs on the rail.

Tom

Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #195 on: February 11, 2019, 08:42 PM »
yapg...

Offline tazprime38

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #196 on: February 12, 2019, 06:57 AM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans

Hans @TSO_Products

I was thinking of something like this and then you post this  lol [big grin]. I think you should speed up production on this too [wink]

Tariq

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #197 on: February 12, 2019, 08:49 AM »
From here it looks like the tso parallel guide suffers from the same clumsy ness as the Festool. That the guide stops have to be at the ends of the material being cut. What makes the Seneca and woodpecker easier to handle is that the guide rails that connect to the cutting rails can be at at any distance as they rest on top of what they are cutting as opposed to be at the ends.

@glass1 - please help us understand what makes for "clumsiness" in the FESTOOL parallel guide (- and what you have so far seen of the TSO TPG System) ?

Your feedback may help us decide to speed up the availability of our optional TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409) which accomplishes exactly what you are referring to.

Hans
Count me in on hearing more about the TPG Rail Adapter. I do a lot of narrow ripping and like the ability to position the stops along the rail. I see the main benefit of this to be saving on repositioning stops for different lengths of stock and to help eliminate a longer piece from flexing in the middle were it only referenced off the very ends. Perhaps this isn't a common use-case but, "if you don't ask" and all that  ;)

Offline tomp

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #198 on: February 12, 2019, 11:10 AM »
When talking narrow rips, do I assume that means rips narrower than the width of the rail? Tom's video showed a rip on a narrow piece to put a good starting edge on it, but never showed cutting to a specific width. Looking at this video from Peter Millard, he's showing a home-made guide, quickly made to cut a specific width on the "waste" side of the rail; has anyone looked at something similar but adjustable for different widths? I would think that a t-track with scale and a movable stop could be used, with a sliding stop for calibration similar to that on the TPG



As much as possible, I try to do all the ripping first, and then all I have to do is cross-cut to length as needed. I have made rips as narrow as 1-1/2" with the EZ UEG and as wide as 24" (about the capacity). This works for me given my workspace limitations - and the fact that I don't have a long rail (and would have trouble finding a place to store it if I did.

292747-0

After ripping, the strips are cut to length as needed - this would be my basic used for the TPG when it's available, to give me repeatable lengths. I normally do the cross-cutting on the collapsible grid (and have also used that as an assembly table too).

292749-1

If I need to adjust the width on a part later, I'd use the Rip Dogs parallel guide. I think someone posted the idea of using a single arm of the parallel guide, in conjunction with the GRS-16, something that I had been considering as it would already be calibrated to my rail, but it looks as if the TPG might be a little more user-friendly.

292751-2

Offline Dane

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2019, 11:53 AM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #200 on: February 12, 2019, 12:22 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

@TSO_Products  there is a good idea!

Offline tazprime38

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #201 on: February 12, 2019, 12:24 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

I think the proposed TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409)  will achieve this.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #202 on: February 12, 2019, 12:38 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

I think the proposed TPG Rail Adapter (p/n 610-409)  will achieve this.

Couldn’t find any such thing at TSO Products.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #203 on: February 12, 2019, 08:20 PM »
@Michael Kellough - give us a little time to bring out products. The Adapter is "proposed" - that is designed but not yet in production.The part is not as inexpensive as you might think. Take a look at other parallel guides on the market which use this type of adapter and look at the pricing. You're well on your way to paying for another multi use tool rather than just a single-purpose Adapter.

Any Adapter will also take more time and a separate handtool to install and remove: no snap-on and snap-off like the GRS-16 connection affords.

Hans
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Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #204 on: February 12, 2019, 08:31 PM »
When talking narrow rips, do I assume that means rips narrower than the width of the rail? Tom's video showed a rip on a narrow piece to put a good starting edge on it, but never showed cutting to a specific width. Looking at this video from Peter Millard, he's showing a home-made guide, quickly made to cut a specific width on the "waste" side of the rail; has anyone looked at something similar but adjustable for different widths? I would think that a t-track with scale and a movable stop could be used, with a sliding stop for calibration similar to that on the TPG



As much as possible, I try to do all the ripping first, and then all I have to do is cross-cut to length as needed. I have made rips as narrow as 1-1/2" with the EZ UEG and as wide as 24" (about the capacity). This works for me given my workspace limitations - and the fact that I don't have a long rail (and would have trouble finding a place to store it if I did.

(Attachment Link)

After ripping, the strips are cut to length as needed - this would be my basic used for the TPG when it's available, to give me repeatable lengths. I normally do the cross-cutting on the collapsible grid (and have also used that as an assembly table too).

(Attachment Link)

If I need to adjust the width on a part later, I'd use the Rip Dogs parallel guide. I think someone posted the idea of using a single arm of the parallel guide, in conjunction with the GRS-16, something that I had been considering as it would already be calibrated to my rail, but it looks as if the TPG might be a little more user-friendly.

(Attachment Link)

The "cleaning" rip was shown to show how I start the process with a known good edge.

There are parts that allow you to do narrow rips.

If you are going to do narrow rips, you definitely need the GRS PE for the left end of the rail. I highly recommend a second set of stops so you can calibrate the narrow rip rods and leave them calibrated.

Tom

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #205 on: February 12, 2019, 08:43 PM »
I am sitting right on the fence of this purchase.  Here's my one issue- in the event that you need to get both the top and bottom arms for repeatability on long cuts I don't really see why the purchase of a second expensive square is necessary.  Seems like the top square is really just there to hold the guide arm.  Couldn't there be a secondary, less expensive way to attach that upper arm to the rail?  That would potentially knock a couple hundred off the price and bring in more buyers...

@Dane

When I first stated testing this system I thought the same as you. There has to be an easy, inexpensive way to handle the left side of the rail for long rips and narrow rips.

I've drawn a few different devices, modeled some, tried this and that. Had multiple email communications with TSO. Over the year plus of working with the system I've come up with nothing as nice and simple as the GRS 16 PE for the left side of the rail.

All of the "adapters" were simply scaled down version of the PE. By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome. One of the beauties is how easily the TPG's can removed and reinstalled without affecting the calibration.

Ultimately, in my opinion, the PE is the most cost effective method of handling the left end of the rail.

Tom

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #206 on: February 12, 2019, 08:53 PM »
Tom said, “By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome.”

After posting I thought about it and came to the same conclusion. At best it could be a little smaller and save a little material cost and machining time but not enough to justify it’s existence as nothing more than an expensive fastener. It would be easier to store but since both GSR’s are now sized to fit flat in a Systainer that isn’t a huge benefit.

Online tjbnwi

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #207 on: February 12, 2019, 08:55 PM »
Tom said, “By the time it was machined and the clip installed I doubt there would be much savings. Without the clip it would be cumbersome.”

After posting I thought about it and came to the same conclusion. At best it could be a little smaller and save a little material cost and machining time but not enough to justify it’s existence as nothing more than an expensive fastener. It would be easier to store but since both GSR’s are now sized to fit flat in a Systainer that isn’t a huge benefit.

It's not a bad thing two have 2 GRS's....

Tom

Online Cheese

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2019, 09:18 PM »

It's not a bad thing two have 2 GRS's....


Amen... like when you’re neighbor borrows your HKC, guide rail & GSR for building stuff at the cabin in Wisconsin and suddenly you need to break down sheet goods with the TSC.

Offline Dane

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Re: NEW TSO TPG-30 Parallel Guide
« Reply #209 on: February 13, 2019, 10:37 AM »
That makes sense, I suppose.  And I certainly understand the multifunctionalty of having the squares and the guides.  Still, for someone starting from zero, like I am, it makes this an almost 600.00 proposition.  I am sure it's worth it- just makes it a bit harder to jump on.