Author Topic: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)  (Read 11651 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« on: February 25, 2020, 02:02 PM »
Festool USA is offering an opportunity to purchase the new STM 1800 for a limited time only.

Order now, product ships October 1st, 2020. Limited quantities, while supplies last. Festool USA has indicated this item will not be offered again in the foreseeable future.

Pre-Order Now!


« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 12:08 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 03:47 PM »
Is that something like $400 off?

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 04:01 PM »
Is that something like $400 off?

Based on the price in Europe with currency conversion, yes.
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Offline mrB

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 04:55 PM »
Wow, for that price I’d consider it a bit more seriously :)
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline elfick

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 05:07 PM »
Yah, I had no plans on getting it but now I'm seriously thinking about it. I think I paid about over $150 for my Bora centipede that I currently use as a cutting table and this would be *WAY* easier to deal with.

Offline gtin723

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 05:08 PM »
I would order one today, but 6 months before shipping, really takes the sizzle out of the product for me. 

Offline PaulMarcel

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 05:17 PM »
A Festool venture into the One-Time Tool category  [tongue]
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Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2020, 06:00 PM »
I would order one today, but 6 months before shipping, really takes the sizzle out of the product for me.

How do you think it is for us over here, waiting for Apple products  [scared] For what I know no store ever over here has even seen a HomePod.. [huh] Kidding a bit now [wink] Last June I backed San Francisco based Peak Design’s new travel tripod on Kickstarter, it was meant to be shipped dec 19... I’ve just received it.. a month after backing I kind of “forgot” about it. Only to “remember” in December to check in with Peak Design whether it is being shipped or delayed. Of course it was delayed.
By meaning if this is something you really can see a benefit in, it’s probably worth the wait. It is fun when shipping starts.. and the bill? You’ll probably have forgotten it by then - so it’s almost like a gift [blink] [big grin]
(I was a little disappointed with the tripod, but that’s another story)
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Offline NVA_WW

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 06:29 PM »
Shane, when will we be charged?  At time of purchase or when it’s shipped?

Offline TinyShop

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2020, 07:10 PM »
A Festool venture into the One-Time Tool category  [tongue]

...or testing the waters for how a ~$1000+ folding cutting station might sell were it to be made regularly available on this side of the pond. ;)
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 07:26 PM »
This is an unusual approach for Festool USA, but in my mind it kinda makes sense to me.  Before you rate me as a fanboy, please let me finish.  As a reader here I have read complaints about non-availability of items.  Limited time items.  NAINA.

Festool USA has ordered in items over the years and depending on their forecasts some items have been available for either a short or a long time.  Always has been a junk shoot in my observation.

So now they are responding to the comments made to them and are willing to order in product with an upfront commitment.

The question I would have for @Festool USA is:  Is the table a tool or an accessory?

To @Festool USA - glad to see you guys looking outside the norm of years gone by.  Godspeed!  May this be successful and open the gates to similar offerings in the future with shorter delivery times.

Peter

Offline PaulMarcel

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 07:29 PM »
Oh, I'm totally for it if it is them trying out products that would normally be NAINA. Would have made getting the BS-75 a lot easier!
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Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 07:45 PM »
When I thought it would roughly translate to $1500 USD I thought it was insane. Now that it is "only" $1000 it is much more palatable.

What a great way to market a product -

Throw out a crazy price
Let it be known it won't be in North America
Drop the price to $1000
Make it a limited time order

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 08:10 PM »
A Festool venture into the One-Time Tool category  [tongue]

@PaulMarcel, I thought the exact same thing.  [big grin]

Shane, when will we be charged?  At time of purchase or when it’s shipped?

@NVA_WW if you order by credit card, yes, we bill when the order ships. If you order by Paypal, you are charged immediately. If you use our financing partner, Affirm, it's billed after 30 days in installments.

The question I would have for @Festool USA is:  Is the table a tool or an accessory?

@Peter Halle, it's considered an accessory. No 30-day money back guarantee if that matters to anyone.

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Offline ADKMedic

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 09:13 PM »
@Shane Holland, is FestoolUSA going to support the consumables?  In other words, what the video calls “interchangeable wooden coverings”, are they going to be available in North America?  It appears that the wooden coverings are meant to be cut into, like the MFT tops.  So will we be able to order spares?  Or are we going to be stuck with the original parts with no hope of replacement?

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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2020, 09:16 PM »
@ADKMedic I doubt that Festool is going to offer those as a consumable at all in any country. I think the expectation is that folks will just rip down some lumber to make replacements as needed.

We can see if @Festool USA will confirm.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2020, 09:49 PM »
I took a moment to look through the excellent manual for the STM 1800 [blink] and didn't see any information about being able to order replacement "wooden supports". Nor are they listed on the international Festool websites as accessories.

It mentions replacing them if they are damaged and can longer secure the workpiece. I think you'd have to chew them up over the course of a lot of cuts to them to get to that point. But again, easy enough to cut down some scraps to replace them. There are a few screws that hold them to the frame, easy to swap out.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2020, 09:54 PM »
Quote from: vkumar
Sounds like a great product. How much space will this take when it is folded up?

@vkumar folded dimensions are 45-1/4" x 9-7/8" x 27-1/2", listed on the product page of our website.
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Offline ForumMFG

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2020, 10:08 PM »
I went ahead and reserved one, i desperately need a way to break down sheet goods in the small space i have at home.  It allows me to fold up when not in use, and it allows me to easily load a sheet.  I do like it but as usual i don’t understand the pricing or where it comes from.  But i still buy because i like all the products i own from them.


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Offline vkumar

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2020, 10:13 PM »
Quote from: vkumar
Sounds like a great product. How much space will this take when it is folded up?

@vkumar folded dimensions are 45-1/4" x 9-7/8" x 27-1/2", listed on the product page of our website.

Thanks ,that is helpful @Shane Holland
Vijay Kumar

Offline batmanrobin

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2020, 10:16 PM »
I believe this would definitely be a plus for myself due to the fact that throwing around 3/4” plywood is a thing of the past. My question was the same that when is pymt made , but I see it’s been answered by Shane.
  Pricing is a little high but I prefer saving my body so I can work instead of sitting out a few days to recover from strains. I’m looking to place my order shortly. Oct 1st uggg.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2020, 10:26 PM »
Guys, I completely understand the agony of the long wait for October for delivery. Like I said, we don't bill until it ships, so it costs you nothing until it's on its way out the door.

I could easily see these becoming sought after by those who missed the opportunity to order during this short pre-order window.

I get where Festool USA is coming from with these being made-to-order. It brings a product that may otherwise not be available in the US into the hands of those who need this solution, as Peter pointed out. In the past, these would not have been available at all. I commend Festool USA for finding a way to make these a viable option to the U.S. market, if even in a limited way.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2020, 10:48 PM »
This is hilarious ...brutalizing the messenger in imaginable ways.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2020, 11:30 PM »
This is hilarious ...brutalizing the messenger in imaginable ways.

It's Shane, we all know he deserves it. [big grin]

Tom

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2020, 12:29 AM »
Is there anything unique about this N.A. model verses the Global model?  Trying to understand why it implies these are custom/special made for the N.A. market? Had to get covered in US mandated safety stickers?

I don't think it was clear either way when information on the STM 1800 came out that it wouldn't be offered in the US, so in a way it makes these offer a bit confusing, I think most folks expected it to come in time so in some ways this is anti-good news.

The price is definitely making this something to consider. 

If this wasn't going to be offered in the N.A. market, then it's nice to have a chance to get it, but it does bring up a lot of questions like why not just offer other things (especially non power tools) in the N.A. market?  I assume shipping containers of Festool stuff regularly are on ships bringing stuff, so it's hard to see there being a need to just make a shipment of them once. Which is in part why I ask if there is something altered about it for the US market.

It's not like they have to create anything other than maybe some import paperwork, thus why its odd/frustrating Festool doesn't offer up more things here. I can understand the concept that if you never offer something in a market, you don't have to set up support for it there, but once you offer it like this, why not just bring it out indefinitely?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see a new offering here, it's just the questions it raises.  Lets face it there are lots of things I think folks would like to see such offerings for, like try offering 230V tools and see how many go for them (make life easier than trying to get them from Europe). Of course there are other things folks would like to see, or see return here.

I don't know if these are on sale in the EU market.  Is this possibly a path Festool is looking at to reduce the delay of products coming to the N.A. market?  Get them here in one big batch to launch instead of trickle in thru dealers.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2020, 08:25 AM »
Is there anything unique about this N.A. model verses the Global model?  Trying to understand why it implies these are custom/special made for the N.A. market? Had to get covered in US mandated safety stickers?

@DeformedTree to my knowledge, nothing is specific to the North American market. It's the exact same model as Europe. At least nothing to was communicated by Festool USA. They would need to explain why they are offering this for a limited time versus making it a regular catalog item.
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Offline mcooley

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2020, 08:35 AM »
I agree. Some decisions this company makes about promotions often fall short. How does this one time limited release at a lower price actually make any sense? Doesn't the reduced price and one time offer cancel each other out in terms of popular opinion? It also feels contrived which obviously it is so from the customer perspective one is not sure to trust the truly limited offering given the fact there is no reason for it. They may in fact offer it in the US albeit for a higher price. If they offered the table for a limited time at a lower promotional price with the intention of making it available in the US, then, yeah, that seems legitimate. But this just feels like a consumer manipulation.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 08:40 AM by mcooley »

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2020, 08:46 AM »
I don't understand all the backlash. It makes perfect sense for them to do what they're doing. On the surface it appears they are seeing if there is enough demand in the U.S. market to support sales of an item that they otherwise would have kept NAINA. We're talking about a 75lb item that with packaging would take up a considerable amount of space on a shipping container if sent in bulk overseas. It doesn't make financial sense to send a bulk supply to the U.S. of such an item if they don't even know if it will sell here only to be forced to sell it at a steep discontinued discount 2 years from now or to ship it back to Europe.

Any speculation on the price and price 'discount' are just that - speculation. Not every tool sold in Europe directly translates to US pricing with current currency conversion rates. In fact they're usually vastly different. And take into consideration Europe is no longer allowed to price fix. There may be a buffer in the pricing scheme over there to allow dealers some wiggle room on providing discounts.

To me this is a welcome change from a company that has historically flat out refused to sell some items in the U.S. If it goes well for them maybe they will consider to offer more items in the future that we wouldn't otherwise be able to purchase without going through 3rd party outlets.

@Shane Holland Thank you for answering everyone's questions - even those that shouldn't have to be answered by you as you are no longer associated with corporate. It's a shame Festool's own appointed forum presence isn't more active.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 08:53 AM by DynaGlide »
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Offline Cheese

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2020, 09:27 AM »
I'm with you DynaGlide...I applaud Festool for trying a different marketing approach. In the past this would have simply been a NAINA item and all we would be able to do is to carp about it.

This in some ways reminds me of the old Festool refurb program that everyone complained about (myself included) and then eventually Festool tried a different venue and the issues pretty much went away.

I consider it a positive and welcome step forward. Now if Festool would only make the same offer on a BS 75 or BS 105... [dead horse]

Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2020, 10:36 AM »
I agree. Some decisions this company makes about promotions often fall short. How does this one time limited release at a lower price actually make any sense? Doesn't the reduced price and one time offer cancel each other out in terms of popular opinion? It also feels contrived which obviously it is so from the customer perspective one is not sure to trust the truly limited offering given the fact there is no reason for it. They may in fact offer it in the US albeit for a higher price. If they offered the table for a limited time at a lower promotional price with the intention of making it available in the US, then, yeah, that seems legitimate. But this just feels like a consumer manipulation.

I'd imagine the margin on metal square stock, scrap wood, folding mechanism, (4) wheels and a few plastic pieces the margin is quite high. It's not returnable so they have to stock a few parts. It is great deal for anyone who wants one, but had no way to get one other than finding a retailer who would ship it to the US. The shipping cost would be brutal given the weight, maybe $150 or so.

I'm in and am glad they are offering it up.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2020, 10:50 AM »
This one time contracted batch order offering makes sense to me.

Festool designs and makes machines and tools.
This is neither and I’m pretty sure Festool is not making this welded steel thing.
I wonder if they even designed it?


Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2020, 12:22 PM »
I ordered one from from Anderson Ply. Talking to Don about pricing I told him it was cheaper here than in Europe. He said it could be they are making them here and shipping to Europe.

Dont know fer sure but it makes sense

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2020, 02:28 PM »
I doubt this would be a limited time offering if they were being manufactured in the U.S. and shipped abroad.

This product isn't on the Festool dealer website currently which lists the country of manufacturer, so I can't confirm where it's made.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 03:07 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline batmanrobin

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2020, 08:41 PM »
Just placed my order but really could be using it now!
Maybe it will be ready before Oct 1st

Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2020, 11:17 AM »
I doubt this would be a limited time offering if they were being manufactured in the U.S. and shipped abroad.

This product isn't on the Festool dealer website currently which lists the country of manufacturer, so I can't confirm where it's made.

@Shane Holland

Another thing Don said was Festool might be using the preorders to help fund the production run.

Im thinking it could be also to determine interest in the US market. We are  very very large market

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2020, 11:58 AM »
@DerickC can you tell us the country of origin for the STM 1800 being sold in the U.S. market? Thanks!
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Offline DerickC

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2020, 01:52 PM »
@DerickC can you tell us the country of origin for the STM 1800 being sold in the U.S. market? Thanks!

@Shane Holland I was able to confirm that the STM-1800 is made in Germany.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 09:04 AM by DerickC »

Offline elfick

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2020, 02:42 PM »
@Shane Holland out of curiosity, is this being dropped shipped directly from Festool?

The reason I ask is because I think the strategy of the preorder and limited order window probably have more to do with what happens once they arrive in the US rather than getting them to the US.

If they are drop shipping, it means they don't have to maintain significant stock, ship to resellers, guestimate demand, or be concerned about stock sitting at one reseller while all the others have none. (some of these apply to any preorder, but you get my point)

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2020, 02:44 PM »
@Shane Holland out of curiosity, is this being dropped shipped directly from Festool?

@elfick Festool will not drop ship these.
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Offline Gerald_D

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2020, 04:33 PM »
I ended up pulling the trigger on one today after much trepidation.  Paying $1K for a cutting table didn’t make sense at first (still doesn’t) but what pushed me over the edge is how it can lift the sheet of material easily.  I’m a one man shop and the wife doesn’t like helping me with plywood, so I end up doing it myself most of the time.  I have two bad discs in my lower back and decided it justified the price. 

Unlike most folks here, I’m OK with waiting until October, as I won’t be doing any plywood work until then, so glad to pre-order now since my cc won’t be charged until delivery.

Thanks Shane!

Regards,
Gerald
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2020, 04:40 PM »
Thanks for the order, @Gerald_D.

Always happy to help and share info with the forum members.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2020, 03:30 PM »
Here's a look at the STM 1800 - PRE-ORDER NOW[cool]


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Offline Joelm

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2020, 07:06 PM »
Looks great! Ordered.

I wonder if it is stable enough to use with a router sled for flattening slabs too. Guess I'll find out in October.

Offline batmanrobin

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2020, 10:43 PM »
I ordered mine also, and normally wouldn’t mind waiting, but I’m building a house and getting ready to build some cabinets and sure would be nice to have right now. I guess at least I’ll have it paid for by the time it arrives from The Tool Nut!

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2020, 10:50 PM »
Really appreciate the orders, guys.  [not worthy]
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Offline jonnyrocket

  • Posts: 64
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2020, 11:32 PM »
For anyone that uses a table like this, as opposed to dense foam, How is the underside of the cut with the TS saws? I have never not used foam, or something that provides full support, and so I assume that it wouldn’t be as clean, but I hope I’m wrong. I want one of these!

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 583
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2020, 02:15 PM »
For anyone that uses a table like this, as opposed to dense foam, How is the underside of the cut with the TS saws? I have never not used foam, or something that provides full support, and so I assume that it wouldn’t be as clean, but I hope I’m wrong. I want one of these!
I don't think it will affect the quality of cut, the blade is cutting upwards at the leading edge so it's cutting towards the rail strip and whatever the green thing is called, not towards the foam. It would affect your dust collection though, I expect the dust collection to be noticeably better with full support, but I would love to be wrong about that.

Offline jonnyrocket

  • Posts: 64
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2020, 03:21 PM »
I don't think it will affect the quality of cut, the blade is cutting upwards at the leading edge so it's cutting towards the rail strip and whatever the green thing is called, not towards the foam.

This was my assumption as well but I haven’t ever tried it. I guess I have some test cuts to make tonight. :)


Offline SilviaS7

  • Posts: 42
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2020, 08:35 PM »
Oh maaaaaaaan I totally want this.  I'm just a stupid hobbyist but I prefer working with sheet goods for now (baby woodworker here) and this table calls out to me, especially because I have limited space at home to work, so when I'm done I can fold this up.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1094
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2020, 05:59 AM »
So it seems Festool are saying to you guys across the water, we’re are making these available to you as a one time offer. Trouble is, you can’t get your hands on your ordered table until October  [blink] but, we’re knocking off $400 to make it easier to swallow?

I suppose it’s better them making a one time availability, as opposed to no availability at all.
It’s a strange state of affairs though, in this day and age, with all the technology we have and big ships and aeroplanes etc, that products are not available worldwide?

It does work both ways though, I often hanker after stuff from N.A. That is just not available to me.
Sometimes I can get around it by paying crazy shipping costs and duty, or I might ask one of my pals from N.A. to arrange something but, I don’t like to trouble them.

Not sure yet, how available Festool and other stuff from Europe will be to the U.K. after the end of December this year?

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2020, 08:01 AM »
Something to keep in mind. .I mentioned above but it hasn't been stated this is a deal or a sale. For all we know this could be the permanent pricing for the US if it becomes a stocked item. Or it could be $400, $800, etc more. Using UK pricing and converting to USD is just a guess and doesn't always work out considering they most likely price higher in Europe to allow for discounts vs US where dealers are not allowed to run independent promotions.

TLDR: I wouldn't jump on this because it's perceived as $400 off. Might leave a sour taste in peoples mouths if 6-12mo from now it's released at the same price as the pre-order offer.
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Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2020, 10:18 AM »
For the time being you’re quite lucky...
Best price here is $1529. I have seen none intro pricing yet. ..Could hope it is surfacing one though [huh].
As a hobbyist, although a dedicated one, I see a lot of benefits in this table, and it was the one new product from FT I really liked. If I was a professional handling sheet material, in need for a collapsible lay out table, work table, assembly table that packs in a car or moved out of the way in the shop I would have jumped on the pre-order available here. I wish FT do a campaign in the same manner here and I would most likely jump on it.
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Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2020, 12:23 PM »
@Jiggy Joiner

Im not sure why festool would make this a limited time offer. Im guessing maybe to see if there is the interest here.

I ordered one excited about getting it. Wish Id known about this before i had a architect draw up my new shop. I could of gotten away with a smaller one.

But never worry, Im quite sure I will use all the space and then some.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1094
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2020, 01:30 PM »
Hi Ron, yes them seeing if there’s any interest is a possible explanation but, if there was a big interest, how would they deal with it after saying it’s a one time offer?

Anyway, at least you’ll have plenty of room for yours in your new shop  [thumbs up]

Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2020, 06:31 PM »
@Jiggy Joiner 

Good question, I dunno what they are going to do. Maybe raise the price in future sales after they do the research on this limited release. We have price fixing here not like the competitive price you have over there.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 487
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2020, 08:33 PM »
Remember that several of Woodpecker's One Time Tools have reappeared.

Back in the day when I had a nice income and a craving for the latest from Festool, I would have bought this table. Now I get my 3/4 (18mm) plywood cut to smaller pieces at the store. I can still handle sheet of 5.2 mm underlayment. This table would be overkill for that.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 799
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2020, 11:14 PM »
Anyone starting to re-think signing up for one of these now given events? I hadn't pulled the trigger yet. Now things have made this a much hard decision.


Offline xedos

  • Posts: 337
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2020, 09:00 AM »
I don see how events have fundamentally changed a decesion like this. 

Presumably need / want / can afford it ; so get it.  Do you agonize the same over gasoline for your automobile?

While the recent events may influence how frequently or where you go for gas , your need and ability to pay hasn't changed. Same on the table.

If on the other hand you didn't really need or want one, but instead get caught up in the "hype" and collectability of the thing and were going to borrow to acquire it  -  and now have been given a reality check..............

well, that's a good thing. Right ?

Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2020, 10:05 AM »
Events dont affect  me being a geezer.
This this helps my ability to easily remove ply from my truck and handle it, then rip it and load it on my MFT to cross cut and repeat.
 
This is designed for one person/single man shops.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2020, 10:11 AM »
With a limited offering like this I think you’ll be able to easily flip it if you decide later that you don't want it. We've seen a lot of Festool limited items that resell on sites like eBay for more than their original price. Just something to consider if you're on the fence.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 03:24 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2020, 01:57 PM »
The gas analogy makes zero sense...

Lots of folks are hunkering down for a long term, this isn't going away and unless you are retired, folks are going to be thinking about their income. Lots of folks won't be working for weeks-months and even if they wanted to work may not have clients/customers for a while.

It's a tool, it has a purpose, but very well is not what folks want to spend money on now as other things re-prioritize.  Also the consideration that the arrival date is probably going to change now. It might be something that would be great if folks had it during this time when lots of folks will be home looking for stuff to do. Of course then you get into the next issue of having a sweet cutting table but can't buy material to put on it to cut.

I hadn't placed my order yet, now I'm re-thinking it as my plans are changing.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 799
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2020, 02:46 PM »
Closest person to place order to the deadline limit without going over gets it free?  [big grin]

Festool operates on ISO standard price-is-right rules correct?

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2020, 02:59 PM »
Closest person to place order to the deadline limit without going over gets it free?  [big grin]

Festool operates on ISO standard price-is-right rules correct?

Too funny...  [big grin]

[popcorn]
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Offline SilviaS7

  • Posts: 42
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2020, 05:19 PM »
Hey @Shane Holland , do you know what the rough dimensions of the table are when it's folded up?

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2020, 05:46 PM »
Hey @Shane Holland , do you know what the rough dimensions of the table are when it's folded up?

@SilviaS7

Dimensions Folded   45-1/4" x 9-7/8" x 27-1/2"
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Offline elfick

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Re: ORDER DEADLINE! NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2020, 01:12 AM »
Bump. Final reminder that the order deadline is tomorrow.  [wink]
After the order deadline, can you run another countdown to shipping day? :)

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 799
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2020, 01:42 PM »
Has Festool made any announcements far as delays, or production/factory shutdowns and such due to COVID?

Most company websites have some form of announcement about COVID and impacts, Festool websites have nothing. Which could just mean nothing has happened to them, but that would be unlikely.

I'm not very optimistic our tables will come when originally scheduled.  [unsure] 

While I would like my table soon, I don't want Festool workers forced to go to work and put at risk just so we can get them on time.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2020, 02:23 PM »
Has Festool made any announcements far as delays, or production/factory shutdowns and such due to COVID?

@DeformedTree Festool USA has not communicated anything specifically about production impact, but we have seen delays in the shipment of the CT 15 from its original release date 4/1 to Friday 4/17 and the Kapex promo ship date from 4/1 with an unconfirmed ETA.

As recently as Wednesday, Festool USA communicated again about the STM 1800 and reiterated a launch date of 10/1, which implies no expected delay.

After the order deadline, can you run another countdown to shipping day? :)

@elfick ha, sure, I can do that.
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Offline Dogberryjr

  • Posts: 154
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2020, 03:00 PM »
It looks like an excellent tool, it just couldn't have come at a worse time. Hope it works out for those who buy it.

Offline ADKMedic

  • Posts: 91
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2020, 05:50 PM »
@Shane Holland , so based on your previous post, are you saying that the 4/30 shipping date for the Kapex deal is no longer good?

Andy
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: ORDER DEADLINE - NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2020, 06:31 PM »
@Shane Holland , so based on your previous post, are you saying that the 4/30 shipping date for the Kapex deal is no longer good?

@ADKMedic Andy, 4/30 was the latest information I had heard for the Kapex promo, but was potentially subject to change with the current events.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 08:19 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline StanB

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2020, 08:35 PM »
@Shane Holland put order in. Just did a cabinet project where this would have been useful. Keep me from killing my self handling sheet goods.
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Mafell P1CC | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB | OSC 18 Vectoro | VAC SYS SYSTEM SET | MX 1200 E MIXER | DF700 XL

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: ORDER DEADLINE - NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2020, 08:39 PM »
@Shane Holland put order in. Just did a cabinet project where this would have been useful. Keep me from killing my self handling sheet goods.

Thanks, @blaszcsj! Appreciate the order. I think a lot of folks are going to be saving themselves from the potential of getting injured moving sheet goods by themselves with this solution.
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Offline DynaGlide

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2020, 10:55 AM »
@Shane Holland - Why is this still available to order on the website and the countdown timer says 1 day 16 hours left?
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Offline closenough

  • Posts: 3
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2020, 01:57 PM »
Several of Shane's posts say limited. Yet this product is still listed for sale on the FestoolProducts website.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-new-products/festool-205183-stm-1800-mobile-sawing-table.html

I don't know if there are protections against such sales practices but certainly not cool in my book, Shane

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2020, 02:07 PM »
Several of Shane's posts say limited. Yet this product is still listed for sale on the FestoolProducts website.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-new-products/festool-205183-stm-1800-mobile-sawing-table.html

I don't know if there are protections against such sales practices but certainly not cool in my book, Shane

@closenough welcome to the forum. When Festool first communicated the limited availability of the STM 1800 to dealers, they provided an order deadline of April 13th for dealers to submit their orders. When we first read this, and I believe most dealers interpreted this way, we read that as the deadline for customers to order. The day before we placed our order with Festool, we read the communication again and notice that the order deadline was for DEALERS only. As a result, we order more units than we pre-sold so we could continue to offer this one-time product to our customers.

At no point was there an intentional effort to mislead our customers. We simply realized that we had misinterpreted the message from Festool USA.

Those who know me, know that I have been involved as a Festool dealer for 8 years and worked for Festool USA for 8 years including running this form as its administrator. I have always operated on the up and up with transparency and integrity. The Tool Nut shares this same viewpoint and would not do something to purposely dupe customers.

Shane
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Offline copcarcollector

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2020, 02:20 PM »
@closenough

First post here to try and bash shane, classy move

Offline closenough

  • Posts: 3
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2020, 02:33 PM »
Thanks for the fast reply and explanation, Shane.

@closenough welcome to the forum. When Festool first communicated the limited availability of the STM 1800 to dealers, they provided an order deadline of April 13th for dealers to submit their orders. When we first read this, and I believe most dealers interpreted this way, we read that as the deadline for customers to order. The day before we placed our order with Festool, we read the communication again and notice that the order deadline was for DEALERS only. As a result, we order more units than we pre-sold so we could continue to offer this one-time product to our customers.

At no point was there an intentional effort to mislead our customers. We simply realized that we had misinterpreted the message from Festool USA.

Those who know me, know that I have been involved as a Festool dealer for 8 years and worked for Festool USA for 8 years including running this form as its administrator. I have always operated on the up and up with transparency and integrity. The Tool Nut shares this same viewpoint and would not do something to purposely dupe customers.

Shane
[/quote]

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2020, 02:43 PM »
Any manufacturer would be interested in the potential demand on a brand new product type. Given the fact that they need to plan production capacity and facilities according to the potential no. of sales.
Remember, the US are potentially a very LARGE market, in potential to the no’s needed to be manufactured given an initial interest. The STM 1800 may not be the easiest product to predict given its speciality’s use, and price.

I think that it will probably be available as a stock item, even in the us. But; there are large markets in Europe and south and east as well. I believe Festool is trying to meet initial interest s best they can in order to leave no market place complete dry or scarce of a new product.

So I think the dealers also need to do this, along with and in collaboration with the vendor(s).
It’s at least a good attempt to keep most happy, at introduction of such speciality product.  [wink]
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2020, 03:21 PM »
I read somewhere that when a written miscommunication occurs, the fault lies with the communicator, not the recipient. In other words, if a message is clear, it shouldn't be misunderstood in the first place. I try to abide by this advice whenever I write.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2020, 05:59 PM »
There no intention on my part to throw Festool under the bus.

The communication we received about the STM 1800 was the following, in part:

Quote
April 13, 2020 - All orders are due and finalized. No orders or changes will be accepted after this date.

It was also made clear that after 4/13, Festool would not accept any additional dealer orders.

If you looked at other dealers' website or spoke with a dealer, the messaging seemed to be very consistent: customers needed to order by 4/12 or 4/13. We chose 4/12 so we could tabulate totals and submit to Festool for processing on 4/13.

As I stated, on 4/13 we re-read this communication and realized there was nothing prohibiting us from ordering more units than we have received pre-orders for, which is what we elected to do. This was a last-minute revelation, not something that was planned from the beginning of the preorder period. I take responsibility for this revelation and hoped it would provide some of you with the opportunity to purchase the STM 1800 when economic conditions were more favorable. Once we sell through the additional inventory we ordered beyond the preorders we received, we will stop taking orders. As stated, this was a one-time offer from Festool USA.

My character is very important to me. Again, I think I've demonstrated that here to those who have been members for a while. It's also important to me that I work for a company that shares my ethics.

Sorry if anyone feels that this was an effort to bamboozle anyone. That was definitely not the intention.

Shane
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2020, 06:23 PM »
There no intention on my part to throw Festool under the bus.


Sorry if anyone feels that this was an effort to bamboozle anyone. That was definitely not the intention.

Shane

Not saying you're trying to shift any blame to Festool. But it's true that in business, most of the time (and in countless no. of times) the writer is the party to blame when someone misunderstands his or her message. Especially so if more than one reader has misunderstood the communication.

 "No orders or changes will be accepted after this date." surely conveys to me as the reader that the STM would not be available for sale anymore after the deadline. Only Festool can tell what its intention was, but its message seemed to convey something else.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 06:27 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2020, 06:57 PM »
It think it might be useful to remind readers that the dealers do not work for Festool.  They are independent and purchase their products for resale.  Based on what I read here I can see that savvy dealers could have considered and ordered extra.

@Shane Holland has been one of the world's most active supporters of the brand both as a dealer and employee for years. 

So at the end of the day I would ask what the harm is?  There are some extra ones available thru savvy dealer(s) who could afford the carrying costs of extra inventory. 

If someone wants on and missed out previously then perhaps there is a limited number of units further available for preorder.  My suggestion would be to act quickly.

My order is in (weeks ago).

Peter

Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2020, 07:17 PM »
@closenough has two posts and is a just joined FOG 7 weeks ago. Obviously completely ignorant of who the dedicated forum members are. Shane has impeccable character and no reasonable person would see anything wrong with continuing to sell the STM 1800 if extra ones were ordered. That is called thinking ahead and being ready for those who changed their mind. There was no limit on the number one could order.

Offline closenough

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2020, 07:53 PM »
I see that others have problems with reading comprehension...

I have been a member here and avid READER on FOG since 2012. I have at least one Festool tool in every major category and have bought a great deal of them from FestoolProducts both before and after Shane joined them. My service experience with them has always been stellar. I expect the same on the delivery of this table.

I said that not communicating why the ongoing sale wasn't cool. I did not say a bad word about Shane. My question was essentially asked a few days earlier and was not responded to. I inquired again in a different fashion.

Were there not enough orders to meet a minimum?
Was this going to delay the initial delivery?
If the ordering is still open could they possibly deliver them sooner (meaning they don't actually need 5-6 months)?

It would have been just fine for vendor to explain or announce in this thread or another as to why the sale was extended. They didn't, until today. They should have.

It's disappointing that there are some here filled with such venom. Very disappointing.

@Shane Holland I did not mean you any harm.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2020, 08:37 PM »
My question was essentially asked a few days earlier and was not responded to. I inquired again in a different fashion.

Were there not enough orders to meet a minimum?
Was this going to delay the initial delivery?
If the ordering is still open could they possibly deliver them sooner (meaning they don't actually need 5-6 months)?

@closenough this appeared to be your first post on the forum today, I didn't see you post earlier. The FOG said you had 1 post when I replied earlier. But, I have been almost entirely absent from the forum recently because we just had a forced upgrade to the software running our websites. I've been preoccupied with that project, so I've not been as active as normal here. Apologies if the inquiry was missed. I typically visit the forum multiple times a day to read and enjoy the posts from its members. (ETA - I see now that dynaglide inquired on 4/14, sorry)

To answer the questions posed:

Festool did not have a minimum order quantity requirement. Dealers could have ordered only one unit or none at all. Their choice.

The latest information from Festool does not indicate that delivery will be impacted. I did ask if this would be impacted due to the current situation with COVID and the expectation (currently) is that it will not.

Festool has never launched a product before the intended launch date. There's no indication that would lead me to believe that these will ship earlier than the announced October 1st date. Festool will ship our order to us around mid-September but dealers are strictly prohibited from delivery before 10/1.

As always, I appreciate those who trust me and Tool Nut to be your dealer of choice, especially with everything going on in the world right now.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 08:46 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2020, 08:47 PM »
I see that others have problems with reading comprehension...

I have been a member here and avid READER on FOG since 2012. I have at least one Festool tool in every major category and have bought a great deal of them from FestoolProducts both before and after Shane joined them. My service experience with them has always been stellar. I expect the same on the delivery of this table.

I said that not communicating why the ongoing sale wasn't cool. I did not say a bad word about Shane. My question was essentially asked a few days earlier and was not responded to. I inquired again in a different fashion.

Were there not enough orders to meet a minimum?
Was this going to delay the initial delivery?
If the ordering is still open could they possibly deliver them sooner (meaning they don't actually need 5-6 months)?

It would have been just fine for vendor to explain or announce in this thread or another as to why the sale was extended. They didn't, until today. They should have.

It's disappointing that there are some here filled with such venom. Very disappointing.

@Shane Holland I did not mean you any harm.

Very few vendors participate here.  I know for a FACT that the tone of the forum is a serious consideration in their decisions.

Peter

Offline jobsworth

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2020, 09:56 PM »
@closenough

FYI
this has happened before. When festool has a limited time offer w a cut off date. Dealers order qtys for themselves to sell. Its not unusual. That limitedtime  installers set in the mini systainer with the clear lid though originally limited order can stil be found for sale at dealers.


Offline Gregor

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2020, 04:48 AM »
this has happened before. When festool has a limited time offer w a cut off date. Dealers order qtys for themselves to sell. Its not unusual. That limitedtime  installers set in the mini systainer with the clear lid though originally limited order can stil be found for sale at dealers.
Could be a possible explanation, but making the table a one-time thing would (at least from my professional perspective) make no sense as a business decision. So I rate this as unlikely, but what do I know...

The communication we received about the STM 1800 was the following, in part:
Quote
April 13, 2020 - All orders are due and finalized. No orders or changes will be accepted after this date.
The 'in part' thing could hold the key to this, should another part hold an information like 'delivery date for initial orders will be $date'.

Because in that context it makes perfectly sense to have a deadline for dealers after which orders can no longer be processes for that delivery window as the stuff will already be inside a container (and that already be on its way on a truck/train/ship).

While at it, a little rant about 'one-time' things:

The whole concept is flawed at the core. Imagine being the one deciding for (or against) the 'one-time' marketing ploy:
Either thing is as good as advertised, then your crime against humanity of withholding thing from mankind (the part that did not order that one moment, eg. since not being born yet) would deliver you straight down there where lava, fire and brimstone is waiting (thanks, wordfilter, for disallowing 'homestead of evil in four letters') when you hand the spoon... or thing is garbage, then you would end there too for trying to con people into buying garbage thing using it's rare, only now, don't miss out, you'll regret not doing it now and similar messages aimed at manipulating their brain state to favor your interest instead of theirs. Every way I looked at it so far I end up with either the product, the seller or both to be avoided.

So why not, as a novel approach to business, be honest about what is going on?

If your product is brilliant but you have no idea how much you can sell (and/or you do not have the upfront money to create it): no problem, make a pre-sale where instead of 'one-time' pre-planting one foot firmly into the lava (through claiming that this will be it, with the consequences outlined above) you are perfectly open about Now is a chance to get thing now. Another batch will happen should enough demand exist (verified through a pre-sale like this, opening directly after this production run) to make another production run feasible. But at this point in time it is unknown to us when (or even if) this will happen, but given enough demand we will certainly make more of thing (simply because not doing that would both be a sin (see above) and a bad business decision (should be self-explanatory)). So order now to get one delivered at $date for sure!

That would motivate me (and I think I'm not alone with that view) way more more to buy thing than the 'one-time' approach, simply because I prefer dealing with honest men taking pride in providing excellent products at fair conditions (to both sides of their location in the production chain) .

Please take with a grain of salt, whole bag (if needed) in case you currently do what I despise and feel like I just wronged you.
Note to moderators: lockdown made me itchy and worsened my intellectual tourette, please have mercy.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 05:27 AM by Gregor »

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2020, 10:41 AM »
The 'in part' thing could hold the key to this, should another part hold an information like 'delivery date for initial orders will be $date'.

Because in that context it makes perfectly sense to have a deadline for dealers after which orders can no longer be processes for that delivery window as the stuff will already be inside a container (and that already be on its way on a truck/train/ship).

@Gregor the reason I posted only that portion is that Festool prohibits dealers from sharing their communications publicly. The delivery date is the same for all orders and all dealers, mid-September.
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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2020, 11:53 AM »


If your product is brilliant but you have no idea how much you can sell (and/or you do not have the upfront money to create it): no problem, make a pre-sale where instead of 'one-time' pre-planting one foot firmly into the lava (through claiming that this will be it, with the consequences outlined above) you are perfectly open about Now is a chance to get thing now. Another batch will happen should enough demand exist (verified through a pre-sale like this, opening directly after this production run) to make another production run feasible. But at this point in time it is unknown to us when (or even if) this will happen, but given enough demand we will certainly make more of thing (simply because not doing that would both be a sin (see above) and a bad business decision (should be self-explanatory)). So order now to get one delivered at $date for sure!


Correct, set them up as batch1 batch2.  I might even say say up front there will be a second batch, but everything beyond that is unknown based on sales.  This way people who are interested but need to see the product first can, they will just have to wait to the second round, and if they don't commit then, they loose their chance if no more batches are made. Committing a grand to something you won't see for half a year is rough, if they were a small no name company, no one would go for it.

Batch making stuff if a good option for products.  Festool should consider this for a lot of NAINA.   Batch of metric tools (well they should just bring them back in full), but also try things like 230V tools. Keep it easy and do like Mafell does and just sell them with the German plugs on them (really they just sell the full German model as is), people can just have a small shucko plug environment or they can mod if they want.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2020, 12:34 PM »
When something is labelled as "One-time," it should be "One-time."

The marketing ploy of "One-time Tool" with the clear intention based on past behavior of producing and selling more of it in the future (say, a year or two later after the demand builds up) is a lie to me. Period.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 12:36 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Gregor

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2020, 02:54 PM »
The 'in part' thing could hold the key to this, should another part hold an information like 'delivery date for initial orders will be $date'.

Because in that context it makes perfectly sense to have a deadline for dealers after which orders can no longer be processes for that delivery window as the stuff will already be inside a container (and that already be on its way on a truck/train/ship).

@Gregor the reason I posted only that portion is that Festool prohibits dealers from sharing their communications publicly. The delivery date is the same for all orders and all dealers, mid-September.
It wasn't ment as a criticism from my side (as I expected some 'ballclamps' style paperwork a dealer has to sign with his own blood prior to getting stuff), just tried to transport the perspective that an information out of context is more likely to be misunderstood.

Batch making stuff if a good option for products.  Festool should consider this for a lot of NAINA.   Batch of metric tools (well they should just bring them back in full), but also try things like 230V tools. Keep it easy and do like Mafell does and just sell them with the German plugs on them (really they just sell the full German model as is), people can just have a small shucko plug environment or they can mod if they want.
A good while back I dumped a long list of thoughs into the Ideenoffensive (their externalized brainstorming), among these was to give an IT capable intern two weeks to setup a site where US folks can register, select their local dealer and directly order all NAINA stuff they want, pay with credit card, the stuff be shipped with the next container coming anyway (so no risk to festool at all as of no inventory cost as all shipped product is already sold) and finally delivered through their normal dealer network (so these get their cut, giving them incentive to order NAINA stuff to showcase to their customers - and possibly even to stock up on it so they can offer 'have it now' (instead of order and wait some weeks for the next container to arrive) as a service.

Never heard anything about it again, sadly. No idea why they didn't go for it, total cost (my projection, I do such things for a living) for the whole thing would have been less than 5k€ (meaning: what the intern would actually have gotten paid)... which they (as I estimated) would have recouped within the first few hours of that thing going beta through a post here on the FOG (asking interested users to test it, no public advertisement for it till all bugs have been squashed to not repeat the 'new website' dumpster fire).

(edit: it's NAINA)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 02:52 AM by Gregor »

Offline Gregor

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2020, 03:01 PM »
When something is labelled as "One-time," it should be "One-time."

The marketing ploy of "One-time Tool" with the clear intention based on past behavior of producing and selling more of it in the future (say, a year or two later after the demand builds up) is a lie to me. Period.
I think I already made my point about it always being evil and/or stupid, regardless of it being a lie or not... there IMHO is nothing positive in the concept, for both seller and buyer.

YMMV.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2020, 04:23 PM »
The "kickstarter" model is what "one time tool" should be.  If you can get people to commit to an order to cover the cost to make it, good, and give them a break for it, then have regular production.

Of course even big companies have tried to corrupt that process by running kickstarters, which just goes against the whole concept. There is some logic to them doing it, but when you have the budget, and money and would have made it without doing a kickstarter, just do it without.

Offline JimH2

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2020, 10:34 AM »
I think I already made my point about it always being evil and/or stupid, regardless of it being a lie or not... there IMHO is nothing positive in the concept, for both seller and buyer.

YMMV.

Having spoke the owner of Woodpeckers who are known for making one-time tools the premise is simple. They can make small the various products they offer so long as they are small runs where the sales are a lock. I don't know of anytime they have cancelled a product for lack of pre-sales. If they had to maintain an inventory of all the products they make they could not do so as maintaining an inventory in hopes a few sales a year does not work. One-time tool sales also help a company employ more people than they would if they only sold a handful of products or just outsourced the whole operation to China.

Most people look at it as an opportunity to buy something that would not otherwise be made. I will not criticize anyone who brings products to market as it is non-trivial and expensive. If the product is so good that it warrants be added to their regular products that too is great because they found a product that has a wider acceptance.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #97 on: April 27, 2020, 09:44 PM »
I think I already made my point about it always being evil and/or stupid, regardless of it being a lie or not... there IMHO is nothing positive in the concept, for both seller and buyer.

YMMV.

Having spoke the owner of Woodpeckers who are known for making one-time tools the premise is simple. They can make small the various products they offer so long as they are small runs where the sales are a lock. I don't know of anytime they have cancelled a product for lack of pre-sales. If they had to maintain an inventory of all the products they make they could not do so as maintaining an inventory in hopes a few sales a year does not work. One-time tool sales also help a company employ more people than they would if they only sold a handful of products or just outsourced the whole operation to China.

Most people look at it as an opportunity to buy something that would not otherwise be made. I will not criticize anyone who brings products to market as it is non-trivial and expensive. If the product is so good that it warrants be added to their regular products that too is great because they found a product that has a wider acceptance.

But that answer makes no sense.  You don't have to keep an item always in stock.  Most companies don't do that.  You make stuff in batches.  You know how well it sells, so that dictates how often you make a batch or how big.  Some batches might sit there for years, nothing wrong with it, it might just not be a quick seller, and or the set up time/effort drives making a large batch even if it sits for a while.  If a batch runs out, you just let customers know it's out, and if you intend to make more.

If it's a new product and you don't know if it will sell well, make a small batch, go from there.

Plenty of companies will take orders over a course of a year for something, then do a manufacturing run. It's way easier and cheaper than making a couple items at a time/day. It would basically be madness to have nothing around and schedule the workers based on orders thru the course of the day. "Bill, go make a 8" square", "Bob go make a 6" triangle and cut a wood box for it while you are at it",

Thus this gets back to the Kickstarter model, get orders for the first batch to see if there is market to make it, then if there is, do it, everything after that is demand. I think Festool is basically doing this here.  If later on they make another offering of it but the price is higher, then the "supporters" got a discount for their support.  Obviously it's a bit odd in that they are making them normally for the rest of the world.  In this case it's less of a support to manufacture and more of a support to import.

Telling folks it's "one time". and then down the road you make it regularly is lying to people.  If you are just trialling the market, come up with a new name for what you are doing. Lots of companies put products in their stores, see how they sell and then decided if these stay, become a regular product, or never come back, or get a few adjustments for the next try.  IKEA is a great model of this.  Stuff that worked out well stays forever, some stuff gets adjusted for a second try or 2 to see if they can make it work, other stuff comes and is gone quick.

We may never know why Festool did it like this. I really wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being something like a safety sticker or some very minor thing they have to do for the US.  So they decided the way to do it is just do a batch and have the plant adjust for one minor thing and ship them.  Of course this is no different than what they do for all the tools normaly.  Obviously on any given day, run, they just make a version of a tool for one region/country,  then switch.  A German TS55 doesn't get followed by a US TS55, followed by a UK TS55 followed by 2 German TS 55s and then ....   It's batch made.  Maybe there is some customs benefit to shipping them all at once verses doing the paperwork over and over.


Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2020, 03:18 AM »
When something is labelled as "One-time," it should be "One-time."

The marketing ploy of "One-time Tool" with the clear intention based on past behavior of producing and selling more of it in the future (say, a year or two later after the demand builds up) is a lie to me. Period.

Perhaps I've missed something here,....But can anyone show me where Festool have stated that this STM 1800 is a "One Time Tool"....???

The STM is available to us here in Europe and I can find no mention that it is a limited time offer. I know that not everything Festool make is available in North America, perhaps they are just testing the waters prior to its general release....?

An old expression that springs to my mind whilst reading this thread......"Dont look a gift horse in the mouth".
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 03:23 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2020, 09:12 AM »
Perhaps I've missed something here,....But can anyone show me where Festool have stated that this STM 1800 is a "One Time Tool"....???

@Distinctive Interiors I try to always put "(US)" in the subject for my posts when they are US-specific. Festool USA had offered dealers a one-time opportunity to order the STM 1800 through 4/13. The same may or may not be true in other countries, but I believe the STM 1800 is a full-time offering elsewhere.
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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2020, 04:53 PM »
Perhaps I've missed something here,....But can anyone show me where Festool have stated that this STM 1800 is a "One Time Tool"....???

@Distinctive Interiors I try to always put "(US)" in the subject for my posts when they are US-specific. Festool USA had offered dealers a one-time opportunity to order the STM 1800 through 4/13. The same may or may not be true in other countries, but I believe the STM 1800 is a full-time offering elsewhere.

Hi Shane,

My apologies if you thought I was having a pop at you, but on the contrary!

It was other posters comments that the STM 1800 was a one time tool, in a similar way to how Woodpeckers sell & market some of their tools that drove me to make my post.( I own quite a few and really like Woodpeckers stuff by the way.....) The way I read your first post in this thread, suggested that this was/is a limited time introductory offer....and a very good one at that! I can't find anywhere in any of Festools public information either here in Europe or over there in North America, that suggests that this is a one time tool.....?

Tim.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 04:59 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Gregor

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2020, 10:22 AM »
An old expression that springs to my mind whilst reading this thread......"Dont look a gift horse in the mouth".
Which is an old expression, these days we know that a BBQ when the thing drops dead can have severe health implications (as there likely is a reason why it fell over)... leading to you being left with a decomposing corpse that you have to dispose of... which comes with a price tag these days in many (if not most, or even all) places, you can't simply leave it at the side of the road anymore (as was OK in the Good Old DaysTM).

That expression is IMHO exactly that: old... and, as I just argued, likely already obsoleted by time.

Offline Shane Holland

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All, just a reminder that we ordered additional inventory of the STM 1800 before Festool USA's order deadline. We will continue to offer this item while supplies last. After we're sold out, that's it. Festool USA has indicated this item will not be offered again.

Ships on October 1st, we do not charge credit cards until it ships.


Pre-Order Now!



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Offline Joelm

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Re: NEW! Festool STM 1800 Mobile Sawing Table (US)
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2020, 12:19 PM »
I had to cancel my order with toolnut as we are moving out of the usa this summer. Anyone know if there are any Canadian dealers who are still accepting orders?