Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Sales, Product & Dealer Area => Topic started by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 04:09 AM

Title: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 04:09 AM
Shortly after developing the first design of the Multi Position Guide Stop (MGS-20), I came up with the concept for a Self Centering Guide (SCG-10). I put off the design for a while, but finally decided to pursue it again in earnest not too long ago. I am ready to enter production and I would like to get some impressions on how much interest there would be in this model.

The main premise behind this model is that guide positions can be reset easily, quickly, and without tools in just a few seconds. Loosen the two thumbscrews, slide the stops to the desired position, and retighten the thumbscrews. The two sliding stops are coupled together so that they always remain centered about the mortising position. When you slide one stop, the other stop slides in the opposing direction.

The stops are infinitely adjustable from 3/4 inch to 5-3/8 inch. When a stop is not in use, it flips up, out of the way. The stop that is being used for mortise registration is then flipped into the down-position for use.

(http://www.dominoguide.com/SCG-10.jpg)

The positioning mechanism is based on a sliding dovetail system to keep the stops in-line during movement, yet providing a firm clamping action during operation. The components are milled from billet aluminum and anodized for long life and appearance. The stop arms are 1/4" thick for rigidity and strength, with detent positions controlled using stainless steel, micro ball plungers. The SCG guide mounts to the Domino Tenon Joiner using the existing threaded holes in the Domino's base without needing to modify your joiner in any way. The mounting thumbscrews are captivated so they do not get lost when the guide is not being used. The baseplate is powder coated for durability.

I wanted to keep the price the same for both models, but the machining is more complex on this model. The price will be $129, which is actually the same price as the MGS-30 version.

I would like to hear how many forum users might be interested in this model. I will be updating the website (www.dominoguide.com (http://www.dominoguide.com/)) when the guides are in production.

Thanks,
Rick Christopherson

Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Ken Nagrod on August 03, 2011, 04:43 AM
First, it's too early in the morning for me to think clearly.  This is when a video showing the new features/design benefits would be helpful.  [poke]

Second, MGS-30 ?  What's that one?

Third.  So this new one has a cable that runs around the front controlling the movement?
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Robert Robinson on August 03, 2011, 05:13 AM
I'll take one.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 05:31 AM

Second, MGS-30 ?  What's that one?


Ken, the basic model of MGS guide is the MGS-20 with 2-pair of stops. The MGS-30 has 3-pair of stops. I believe you bought your guide from a dealer, and they do not typically make this same part number distinction because they normally sell the extra pair of stops (if ordered) separately.

Yes, there is a coated-steel coupling cable between the stop assemblies on the new version. This is what keeps the stops automatically centered about the tenon as they are repositioned.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Ken Nagrod on August 03, 2011, 05:50 AM
Rick,

Something else I thought about.  It does appear that it would be faster adjusting the spacing or positioning now, but would this design be slower to re-position for multiple spacings compared with the older version that has multiple stops?  I'm still trying to get a grasp on overall, how this would improve or speed up the process over the older design.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 06:09 AM
Ken, This model wasn't intended to replace the previous model, but instead to be a companion to it. That was always the plan, but I just didn't develop this model sooner.

You are correct that when you have repeating, multiple stop positions, then the MGS guide is more appropriate and faster. This model is for when you want faster, on-the-fly adjustability of the positions. The original vision I had was for the MGS guide to be geared more toward the cabinetmaker, and the SCG guide more toward general use.

Edit: To answer your question, I captured another view of the guide.

(http://www.dominoguide.com/SCG-Front.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 06:20 AM
I'll take one.

I like your dedication Rob. Two years ago you missed being my first customer by only a couple hours. I'll make sure the first one goes to you this time. (http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/images/smilies/newsmilies/thumbsup2.gif)
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Festoolfootstool on August 03, 2011, 06:42 AM
Hi Rick

Looks interesting, so when its fitted to the machine and you put the domino down does it rest on the two knobs?
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 03, 2011, 06:48 AM
Hi Rick

Looks interesting, so when its fitted to the machine and you put the domino down does it rest on the two knobs?

Yes. The two clamping knobs are high impact plastic (with a steel threaded insert of course) very similar to the knobs Festool uses to attach the auxiliary fence to Domino, except these are slightly larger for easier tightening.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Festoolfootstool on August 03, 2011, 06:53 AM
Hi Rick

Looks interesting, so when its fitted to the machine and you put the domino down does it rest on the two knobs?

Yes. The two clamping knobs are high impact plastic (with a steel threaded insert of course) very similar to the knobs Festool uses to attach the auxiliary fence to Domino, except these are slightly larger for easier tightening.


Rick +1 on a video of it in use.I would be interested in buying one 4sure.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Alan m on August 03, 2011, 09:25 AM
might be interested. cant wait for a review or video
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Jesse Cloud on August 03, 2011, 10:54 AM
Very interested.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: FEStastic on August 03, 2011, 12:51 PM
I would like one
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Bob Marino on August 03, 2011, 01:22 PM

 Rick,
 
  Nicely done! If you get them, I'll sell em'.  ;). I'm in.

 Bob
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Robert Robinson on August 04, 2011, 06:25 AM
I'll take one.

I like your dedication Rob. Two years ago you missed being my first customer by only a couple hours. I'll make sure the first one goes to you this time. (http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/images/smilies/newsmilies/thumbsup2.gif)
Sweet! I can't wait to try it out.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Tim Raleigh on August 04, 2011, 07:31 AM
Rick:
If I was to buy one it would probably be the MGS-30, but this one does "look" a lot better.
I like the green anodized parts, should help with marketing it.
Tim
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on August 04, 2011, 11:45 AM

Plus +2 for me on the video. As a purchase of your original MGS-20, I'd really like to see a visual of what this new one can do.


I don't have a video on how to use it yet because I haven't built one yet. That's the purpose of the feedback question. However, last night I did capture a screen video out of SolidWorks that shows how the components of the guide interact. (The light-green piece in this view is a representation of the base of the Domino. This is seen from the underside of Domino.)

SCG-10 Movement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv10W8CjYRc#)
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: dsweetser on August 04, 2011, 01:01 PM
Rick ,
Something I would be interested in.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: jtwood on August 04, 2011, 03:29 PM
I, too, would be interested in one.  Looks like I need to pick up one of the original ones, too.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Robnol on August 07, 2011, 07:13 AM
 [tongue] Awesome ... make one for me, i'm in.

Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Festoolfootstool on August 07, 2011, 08:04 AM
Hi Rick

Looks interesting, so when its fitted to the machine and you put the domino down does it rest on the two knobs?


So is there a chance of unintentionally altering the settings as you would be putting the machine down on the knobs that control the paddles?
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Sparktrician on August 07, 2011, 09:46 AM
I'm game for this one, too. 

 [smile]
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Terry Fogarty on August 07, 2011, 10:36 AM
This one looks great and i will be looking forward to having a go at it when its available downunder.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Brian Buckley on August 07, 2011, 07:36 PM
I will take one.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: neilc on August 11, 2011, 11:10 PM
Cool design.  Sign me up Rick!
I like it better than your original design for its simplicity.

neil
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: ghjaxman on August 30, 2011, 10:41 PM
I'll one as well.  Either through you or Bob.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on September 01, 2011, 02:34 PM
Thanks for all the feedback.

I don't recall if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but I have entered production on the SCG-10 components a few weeks ago. I just got back from a quick visit to the main machine shop that is handling the machined aluminum components. The Dog Arms and Dovetail Bases are complete (but not anodized yet), and look really great. The Dovetail Saddles should be completed in a couple of days and then everything goes out for anodizing.

As soon as I have all the parts in-hand and make sure there is no re-work necessary, I will notify those woodworkers that have asked about the guides, and update the website for placing orders. Should be soon, now.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on September 16, 2011, 04:51 AM
Timing was pretty good today. The baseplates came back from powder coating late yesterday, and while I was standing there at the sheetmetal shop picking them up, the machine shop called to say the aluminum just arrived back from anodizing. Perfect timing! So I swung by the machine shop on my way home from the sheetmetal fabricator.

I still need a few days of testing and planning before I am ready to ramp up into full production, but I did at least assemble a prototype tonight. I'm a little tired tonight, so this isn't the greatest photograph, but I did at least get it installed on a Domino machine.

More information to come.

(http://www.dominoguide.com/FirstUnit.jpg)

Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Festoolfootstool on September 16, 2011, 06:56 AM
Rick see any value in an extra wide  version ?
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: tms0425 on September 16, 2011, 10:46 AM
Rick,

These look great! I'd definitely be in for one, probably through Bob if he's getting them.

Tom
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on September 16, 2011, 01:26 PM
Footstool, it's not really wider by function, but because the dovetail slides and slaving cable need more room. The maximum stop positions are slightly wider than the Domino machine just to give maximum flexibility for whatever the user may want. I had considered making it even wider than this, because there really isn't a limit for that, but I also didn't want it to be too bulky for those users that never needed the extra width. That, plus where this leaves off, the Festool Cross Stops pick up.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Festoolfootstool on September 16, 2011, 04:05 PM
I have been thinking about this today, and I think a wider version would be usefull why would you want to change out the attachments when one could do the same job.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on September 18, 2011, 02:20 PM
I'm updating this thread just in case anyone has it set for "Notifications" in their preferences. I am now taking orders for the SCG-10 guides. The thread announcing this is located Here (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/now-taking-orders-self-centering-guide-for-domino/msg170373/?topicseen#msg170373).
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: rookie08 on September 23, 2011, 10:29 PM
Hi Rick,

I was watching your original video on your site with the MGS (nice and I like the discount if you by both!  [big grin]) and noticed you had your rail all the way at the end.  I know this is a bit off topic, but I'm curious if you are cutting with the blade completely off the "brown" part of the table and over the profile V channel.  I like your setup and was thinking of doing the same thing with my MFT/3.  Now trying to hijack the thread so please let me now if you prefer I start a separate thread.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: Rick Christopherson on September 23, 2011, 11:21 PM
Hi Rookie,
With a versatile system like the MFT, there is no hard and fast rule on how the table gets set up. I have had it set up in a few different configurations depending on what I am doing. For the video, I wanted the fence away from the camera and the guide rail as far to the edge as I could without changing the factory stop position. This gave me the most space on the table, and I did not need any offcut support for this application.

I had to go back and watch the video myself, but you can tell I am not over the aluminum--but very close to it. As soon as I saw the video again, I recognize the saw kerf I left in the MFT top (because it is still there). It is about 1/16" from the edge of the MFT's MDF top. It's not the common setup, but it worked just fine for what I needed at the time. The downside to that setup is there would be no support for your offcuts.
Title: Re: Looking for Feedback on New Model Guide Stop for Domino
Post by: rookie08 on September 23, 2011, 11:46 PM
Makes total sense. I think I am going to give it a shot though as I have an 800 on a rolling table with systainers and the vac underneath, plus a sliding holster for the saw. I'm going to either reconfigure that one with th mft3 as the outfeed or vice versa. Like your video, I like the idea of using my table as a workspace without having to move everything to cut something. I'll post pics when I'm done in case it can help anyone else.  BTW, how about for your next project a centrotec style chuck that accepts both style bits or just the standard 1/4 hex.  I bet you'd sell a couple......


THOUSAND!  [big grin]