Author Topic: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)  (Read 13788 times)

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Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2021, 09:58 AM »

Morning @Cheese .  I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key.  Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?

I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?

Hey Rick...unfortunately, machining a custom bushing is the only route that I know of.  [sad]  Over the last several years I've had 25-30 requests for a bushing so there is a market out there and it's probably a lot larger than we think. I've even given the dimensions/drawing to @jeffinsgf for him to diddle around with.

Just make sure that the bushing is a tight fit in the router and a slightly looser fit in the template. That way every time you reposition the router the bushing remains in the router.

I should add, I was boring through 18 mm Baltic birch rather than MDF and maybe that's the reason I had the issues that I did. At any rate, I just needed to solve the problem and the Festool cutter along with the bushing was the charm. The holes were rounder, easier to cut and faster to cut.

Also make sure to place a spoil board under the work piece to prevent tear-out on the bottom surface.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 10:08 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2021, 10:10 AM »
Thanks Cheese.  I sure hope WP could do something to help here.  If anyone can do machining like this, WP has the set up to do it. 

Offline acer66

  • Posts: 97
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2021, 10:26 AM »
I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?
Are you using mdf or ply?

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2021, 10:48 AM »
Plywood. 

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2021, 04:11 PM »
- TSO still sells the ParfGuide Mk 2 . . . and its in stock [wink]

Hans

Offline ewils91

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2021, 04:25 PM »
- TSO still sells the ParfGuide Mk 2 . . . and its in stock [wink]

Hans
Stuff like this drives me to your competitors. 😉 Start your own thread. 😉

Offline acer66

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2021, 06:26 PM »
Plywood.

Thank you and it sounds like it is a solid tool.
I am trying to decide if I should buy the tool or just pre drilled sheets.

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2021, 10:46 PM »
Plywood.

Thank you and it sounds like it is a solid tool.
I am trying to decide if I should buy the tool or just pre drilled sheets.

I think it might be a good tool but I have been trying to find the correct 1/2" bit I want to use because it looks like getting a bushing that would work with the 20mm boring bit ain't gonna happen.  For a quick couple of holes, this jig would be easier than the Parf MK-II.

Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2021, 11:33 PM »
I think it might be a good tool but I have been trying to find the correct 1/2" bit I want to use because it looks like getting a bushing that would work with the 20mm boring bit ain't gonna happen.  For a quick couple of holes, this jig would be easier than the Parf MK-II.

I'm certainly not trying to throw salt in the wounds Rick but...I was working in the shop tonight checking out some prototype items and on a whim I decided to measure the distance between the spacing of the vertical holes and the spacing of the horizontal holes on an MFT that I produced using the Woodpecker's jig...the results were simply incredible.
Using a go/no-go gauge there were only 2 sets of holes in the entire field that failed the test. And those holes were machined using the original Woodpecker recommended 1/2" diameter router bit. Everything that was machined using the Festool bit with the bushing adapter passed the go/no-go gauge test.

There seems to be at least two things to do to improve this entire "make your own MFT process".

Number one is to standardize on a cutter diameter or on a manufacturer of a cutter......oh boy, just thinking about this will definitely lead me down another rabbit hole...it's probably time to stop.





Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2021, 09:21 AM »
No worries Cheese, more information is usually better.  I usually go to Whiteside when I need a bit.  The ones on the WP for this jig are all 'up-cut'.  Being somewhat of a rookie, I thought you would want a down cut here so your entry hole would be the best.  The WP sight does not list any of the 3-flute varieties, which I think may be better?  Thats why I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to figure which 1/2" bit.  Since you again confirm the 20mm is probably the better option, I will keep on that path.

Since the OF1400 is somewhat 'center challenged', can I do this with the OF1010?  I saw that the FT 20mm bit is 8mm shank so it would fit, but would the router be strong enough?  But again, that leaves me with the bushing issue.  Really not sure why WP didn't come up with one.

Offline acer66

  • Posts: 97
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2021, 09:34 AM »
Since this would be my first experience with dog holes I might just get a sheet from Festool and worry about making my own later since there seems to be still things to ironed out with doing that yourself.

Watching Mr, Parf is seemed pretty straight forward though.

Offline festal

  • Posts: 152
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2021, 10:27 AM »

Morning @Cheese .  I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key.  Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?

I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?

Hey Rick...unfortunately, machining a custom bushing is the only route that I know of.  [sad]  Over the last several years I've had 25-30 requests for a bushing so there is a market out there and it's probably a lot larger than we think. I've even given the dimensions/drawing to @jeffinsgf for him to diddle around with.

Just make sure that the bushing is a tight fit in the router and a slightly looser fit in the template. That way every time you reposition the router the bushing remains in the router.

I should add, I was boring through 18 mm Baltic birch rather than MDF and maybe that's the reason I had the issues that I did. At any rate, I just needed to solve the problem and the Festool cutter along with the bushing was the charm. The holes were rounder, easier to cut and faster to cut.

Also make sure to place a spoil board under the work piece to prevent tear-out on the bottom surface.

can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me. 

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9255
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2021, 10:27 AM »
can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me.

Here ya go...however, rather than going off of my dimensions, I'd suggest you gather up your items and measure those for a nice fit.

I've mentioned before that you want a nice snug fit on the ID of the aluminum bushing to the OD of the Woodpecker brass adapter, but a looser fit between the OD of the aluminum bushing and the ID of the Woodpecker jig. That way the aluminum bushing will always stay with the router which makes it a lot easier/faster to machine the holes.

I measured the ID of 3 different holes on the Woodpeckers jig. I measured each hole in 2 places 90º to each other. Here are the results:
1st hole = 1.474/1.475"
2nd hole = 1.472/1.473"
3rd hole = 1.473/1.474"
OD of my aluminum bushing = 1.470/1.470"

OD of Woodpecker brass adapter = 1.180/1.180"
ID of my aluminum bushing = 1.181/1.182"

Thickness/height of the aluminum bushing is .315".
Both the OD & the ID should have small chamfers to ease/aid assembly.




Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2021, 11:34 AM »
can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me.

Here ya go...however, rather than going off of my dimensions, I'd suggest you gather up your items and measure those for a nice fit.

I've mentioned before that you want a nice snug fit on the ID of the aluminum bushing to the OD of the Woodpecker brass adapter, but a looser fit between the OD of the aluminum bushing and the ID of the Woodpecker jig. That way the aluminum bushing will always stay with the router which makes it a lot easier/faster to machine the holes.

I measured the ID of 3 different holes on the Woodpeckers jig. I measured each hole in 2 places 90º to each other. Here are the results:
1st hole = 1.474/1.475"
2nd hole = 1.472/1.473"
3rd hole = 1.473/1.474"
OD of my aluminum bushing = 1.470/1.470"

OD of Woodpecker brass adapter = 1.180/1.180"
ID of my aluminum bushing = 1.181/1.182"

Thickness/height of the aluminum bushing is .315".
Both the OD & the ID should have small chamfers to ease/aid assembly.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Thank you. So both get used with the 20mm bit? Woodpecker adapter and yours? Sorry trying to visualize it? Happen to have a picture of the assembled setup?


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Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2021, 12:17 PM »

Thank you. So both get used with the 20mm bit? Woodpecker adapter and yours? Sorry trying to visualize it? Happen to have a picture of the assembled setup?


Yes both get used. The Woodpeckers brass adapter gets installed into the Festool template guide. Top view.




Bottom view with Woodpeckers brass adapter poking out the bottom.




Bottom view of the aluminum bushing being placed over the Woodpeckers brass adapter.




The aluminum adapter now becomes the pilot for plunge cutting holes using the Festool 20 mm router bit.




Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2021, 12:45 PM »
Thank you
Hmm my bit looks different


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Offline afish

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2021, 04:47 PM »
Im guessing that last photo cheese posted was when he was using the jig as WP intended and going around in circles to make the hole prior to his 2.0 version which seems like the logical way to do it.  IM not sure why they made the jig that way... Based on personal experience its darn near impossible to cut a perfectly round hole that way.

My bigger question is, I thought I had read lots of people complaining that the Festool bit 491072 produced a slightly larger hole and was problematic making for loose fitting dogs.  Is this not the case?  It seems easier just to make a new jig with the proper sized holes to fit the festool 30mm bushing and skip the custom machine ring.  From what I know about WP its going to be the cheaper method for sure. 

Back when I used the Parf MKII the bit that came with it made for very good fitting dogs (veritas and UJK dogs) I know there are lots of makers of dogs and that could be part of the issue to.  I wouldn't be opposed to making up some jigs on the cnc but I would have to figure out and buy the rings needed first so I can dial in the hole size just right for said ring.  It does take some experimentation and trial and error to get the hole just right so there is zero slop but also not a press fit. 

Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2021, 06:15 PM »
Im guessing that last photo cheese posted was when he was using the jig as WP intended and going around in circles to make the hole prior to his 2.0 version which seems like the logical way to do it.  IM not sure why they made the jig that way... Based on personal experience its darn near impossible to cut a perfectly round hole that way.

@afish  You're absolutely correct and on several issues.  [big grin]  The bit shown is the original 1/2" dia. Whiteside. 

During this entire debacle I talked several times with a WP engineer and he said they took about a half dozen MFT's and checked them on their vision system. Also, 2 of the MFT's were newly purchased so WP was keenly knowledgeable about the range of diameters of the holes along with the range of alignment of the holes.

WP did a great job in maintaining a narrow range of alignment of holes, however their choice of how to bore the holes...not so much. Especially if you use a Festool 1400 or 2200 router because of template ring shifting issues. Besides, you know people will be using this boring template on everything from MDF to ply to 1 3/4" maple bench tops and the "moving the router in circles" approach is fraught with real & other potential issues.

I'd have started with deciding upon the hole diameter you want to bore and then contact Whiteside or another toolmaker and have some cutters manufactured. The method used is really second to maintaining consistent hole diameters.



 


Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2021, 06:53 PM »
Ha good catch. totally missed it

@Cheese what is the height of your aluminum bushing? hard to tell from the pictures
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 06:55 PM by festal »

Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2021, 09:50 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”

Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2021, 09:52 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”
Thank you


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Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2022, 06:06 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”
Got the part. Just a tad too big to fit darn it


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Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2022, 07:40 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
[mention]Cheese [/mention] how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.
Will try to route few holes today to see how it goes



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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9255
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2022, 09:53 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
@Cheese  how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.

I fabricated mine to be a tight fit on the Woodpecker bushing and a slip fit on the Woodpecker MFT jig. That way each time you move the router, the bushing also goes along for the ride.  [smile] 

Otherwise, you have to put the router down, remove the bushing from the jig, move the bushing to the next hole, pick the router back up and rout the hole...that method is a PITA.

Offline festal

  • Posts: 152
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2022, 09:59 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
@Cheese  how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.

I fabricated mine to be a tight fit on the Woodpecker bushing and a slip fit on the Woodpecker MFT jig. That way each time you move the router, the bushing also goes along for the ride.  [smile] 

Otherwise, you have to put the router down, remove the bushing from the jig, move the bushing to the next hole, pick the router back up and rout the hole...that method is a PITA.

Yep thats what I figured.  Moving it hole to hole will get annoying really fast.  I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

Online Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2022, 10:08 AM »
I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

You could also add a few drops of cyanoacrylate to the combo. There's no harm in having the 2 pieces permanently bonded to each other, you're not going to use either one of them by themselves...they only function properly as a pair.

Offline festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2022, 10:10 AM »
I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

You could also add a few drops of cyanoacrylate to the combo. There's no harm in having the 2 pieces permanently bonded to each other, you're not going to use either one of them by themselves...they only function properly as a pair.

hmm very good point.  Didn't think of that.  Thank you

Offline festal

  • Posts: 152
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2022, 04:16 PM »
Success but not without my stupidity lol

End result




Lessons learned - don’t forget to adjust the stick out of the bit
I was wondering why it wouldn’t route deeper then the but from the bushing came loose. Few scratches in the collet lock but other then that no damage. Also the threads on the screw on lock nut got damaged but I got a spare one so it’s ok

This is the stick out I needed to go through the template and 3/4” plywood


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« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 07:49 AM by festal »