Author Topic: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)  (Read 16359 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« on: November 13, 2017, 04:22 PM »
Friendly reminder that today's the deadline to order this jig. Make your own MFT-style work surface with the 96mm on center 20mm hole grid just like the Festool MFT.

Scheduled to ship in Feb. 2018.

Order Now!



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Offline antss

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 05:41 PM »
Hey Shane , does that template allow use of the festool 20mm boring bit #491072 ?

What size bushing would be required  ?

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 05:54 PM »
Hey Shane , does that template allow use of the festool 20mm boring bit #491072 ?

What size bushing would be required  ?

It includes two bushings, one for doing 20mm holes, one for doing 3/4” holes. Both are designed to be used with a 1/2” router bit.
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Offline Svar

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 06:26 PM »
Hey Shane , does that template allow use of the festool 20mm boring bit #491072 ?
What size bushing would be required  ?
It includes two bushings, one for doing 20mm holes, one for doing 3/4” holes. Both are designed to be used with a 1/2” router bit.
So, the question boils down to what is the jig's hole size?
In order to use it with 20 mm boring bit one would need a bushing that fits tight in the hole. Looks about 40 mm or so to me.

In either case the bit and bushing must be perfectly coaxial for this to work. Otherwise the jig will be misaligned after re-positioning.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:31 PM by Svar »

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 06:42 PM »
@Svar the bushings are included. Or maybe you’re just guessing on their diameter.
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Offline Svar

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 06:44 PM »
@Svar the bushings are included. Or maybe you’re just guessing on their diameter.
I realize they are included.
I'm guessing the diameter of holes in the plate, so it can be used with a third party bushing and a 20 mm boring (plunge) bit.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 08:22 PM »
@Svar, unfortunately Woodpeckers is closed now and today is the last day to order. You can always order before tonight's deadline and if we get that info for you and it won't work out, you can cancel your order. But, if you don't order and miss the deadline, then there won't be another opportunity in the foreseeable future to get this item from Woodpeckers.

That said, I did some estimates in Photoshop based and it does indeed look to be about 40mm diameter holes (approximately at least). To be exact, I came up with 38.9mm just based on proportions.

Shane
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Offline antss

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 08:44 PM »
Shane - I love you and the Tool Nut , but it's answers like these that make my skin crawl and give salesmen a bad name.

You didn't answer my question at all, simply repeated the marketing bullet points that are on the sell sheet and talked about in the video and on the websites.  On the surface it's like it was ignored entirely.  Perhaps I wasn't concise enough, but Svar understands what I'm driving at.

I want to know if this jig can be used with a 20mm boring bit - specifically Festool's part# 491072 ?   And , what size bushing / collar would be needed. It clearly is not included in the promo material, but  WP must have thought about it - no ?   I mean we have to provide our own bit anyway. 

Now, maybe it doesn't work.  And maybe you don't know the answer.  Both of which are reasonable and OK. But ignoring the question because might not shed the best light on a product's shortcoming (if that's the case) isn't the usual great service I'm used to from you. 

p.s.  I still love ya man [smile]


Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 08:54 PM »
@antss,

I wasn't intentionally ignoring or dodging your question. I thought I had answered your questions and didn't connect your dots. I was out running some errands and answered from my phone. At a glance, it seemed like you had missed the info about the bushings and which bit to use with them. So, apologies if it came across the wrong way.

As I've now said, I don't know the dimensions of the hole in the template. It was not published by Woodpeckers or provided in the information about the product. I took an educated guess. I would need them to answer that question.

I will see if I can get any info from the President of Woodpeckers if he answers late night emails and knows the answer.

For the record, I have no fear of saying when I don't know the answer to a question.  [smile] Thanks for the love. All good, buddy.

Shane
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:57 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline antss

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 09:35 PM »
Like I said - I probably wasn't concise enough.

At least for phone sized multitasking text  [tongue]

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 10:01 PM »
I need to order one of these fixtures. It’d be pretty slick for what I’m working on now.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 12:36 PM »
@Svar @antss

I realize it's a little late at this point, but I just got a response from Woodpeckers.

The diameter of the holes in the jig are 1.4689 inches or 37.3mm.

Shane
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Offline Svar

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 01:05 PM »
Thank you, Shane.
I wasn't going to buy. I just thought if the hole was sized to fit a standard bushing, or WP provided a tight fitting bushing for it, the system would be a little more versatile, i.e. allow for single plunge boring, that some might prefer.

Someone with a lathe could take a 1.5" bronze bushing and reduce it to fit. Even drill and sand paper could do the trick.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 01:10 PM by Svar »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 01:30 PM »
I just placed my order for this OTT on the Woodpeckers web site. Woodpeckers will usually accept orders for OTT offerings for 4-5 days after the deadline.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 01:48 PM »
I just placed my order for this OTT on the Woodpeckers web site. Woodpeckers will usually accept orders for OTT offerings for 4-5 days after the deadline.

 [crying]
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 02:17 PM »
I just placed my order for this OTT on the Woodpeckers web site. Woodpeckers will usually accept orders for OTT offerings for 4-5 days after the deadline.

 [crying]

Sorry Shane...just letting anyone that missed the order deadline know that they still have a chance.  [tongue]

Offline antss

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 04:03 PM »
Thanks Shane.

I guess that's the size that corresponds to making both a 20mm and 3/4 hole with a 1/2 router bit with standard bushings.  Clearly a lot of thought went into this. 

It's not for me because I don't believe moving the router around to clear out the hole is very efficient.  I'd have bitten if I could use a straight plunge bit in the setup.  Would have been easy enough to make the jig with a standard bushing that fits the jig holes and accepts a 20mm and a 3/4" plunge bit. 

I do look forward to Cheese's review though.

Offline Svar

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 04:13 PM »
It's not for me because I don't believe moving the router around to clear out the hole is very efficient. 
It takes a little more time, but no tearout at the bottom. I tried both ways. Even if you place it on a spoil board, boring bit cuts out a thin disk at the end of the plunge, then the disk starts spinning and burning. It takes good depth adjustment and plunging technique to avoid it. Better tolerance with just plunging though.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:19 PM by Svar »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2018, 01:52 PM »
Just a heads-up for anyone that ordered one of the 20mm hole boring jigs.

I ordered one of these jigs on the deadline day of November 13, 2017 with an estimated ship date of February 2018. I called Woodpeckers today to find out the current status of my order. I was told that it will PROBABLY  [sad]  be shipping within the next 2 weeks.

He also said that orders placed for this in December would not ship until the end of June.  [jawdrop] 

FWIW...It sounds like the order deadline isn't really a deadline after all.

Offline justaguy

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2018, 02:48 PM »
If anybody wants one but missed the deadline there is one up for sale on eBay. It's not mine and I have no affiliation with the seller

Online SoonerFan

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2018, 10:46 AM »
@Cheese

With Woodpecker One Time Tools I have found order “deadlines” and “shipping dates” to both be approximate and subject to change  [smile]
 


FWIW...It sounds like the order deadline isn't really a deadline after all.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2018, 10:51 AM »
@Cheese

With Woodpecker One Time Tools I have found order “deadlines” and “shipping dates” to both be approximate and subject to change  [smile]
 

Ya you got that one right... [big grin]

The good news is I received notice that today, I will be getting the MFT Jig delivered.  [cool]...very...[cool]

Now I can finally finish the work table extension I started in NOVEMBER[eek]
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 10:56 AM by Cheese »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2018, 04:31 PM »
Snipe

FWIW...It sounds like the order deadline isn't really a deadline after all.

Nor are they really one-time tools either.  [eek]

Offline Bugsysiegals

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 04:51 PM »
How does this compare to the parf system?  Has anybody used both?

Offline Cheese

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Woodpeckers OTT MFT Hole-Boring Jig
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2018, 03:33 PM »
So, the question boils down to what is the jig's hole size?
In order to use it with 20 mm boring bit one would need a bushing that fits tight in the hole. Looks about 40 mm or so to me.

In either case the bit and bushing must be perfectly coaxial for this to work. Otherwise the jig will be misaligned after re-positioning.

@Svar

I finally got the Hole-Boring Jig.
The template holes are 37.40 mm ID.
The brass template bushing has a 30.00 mm OD.
The Whiteside router bit has a 12.70 mm OD.
So going strictly by the numbers, the holes should theoretically be 20.10 mm ID.
After boring 60 holes they actually come out to an average of 20.19 mm with a standard deviation of .05 mm.

Unfortunately, the Woodpecker dogs that ship with the MFT Layout & Assembly Square have an OD of 19.90 mm, while Veritas dogs have an OD of 19.80 mm.

So again doing the math:
20.19 - 19.90 (Woodpeckers dog) = .29 mm/.011" slop.
20.19 - 19.80 (Veritas dog) = .39 mm/.015" slop.

The good news is that I bored 12 holes and over the distance of 12 horizontal holes (approx 45”), from the leading edge of the 1st, to the leading edge of the 12th, I’m measuring 1055.50/1055.75 mm from a theoretically perfect value of 1056 mm.  [cool]...very... [cool]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:48 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool® - Hole-Boring Jig
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2018, 04:29 PM »
I received the Woodpeckers MFT Jig and decided to use it to route 20mm holes in 19mm thick Baltic birch using the recommended Whiteside 1/2" router bit.

The first 32 holes:
I worked on this top outside on a large teak table (roughly 250#) that will seat 12 people so it's rather sturdy, however it will still sway a little bit, much like an MFT. Not a lot of sway but it's there. The hole making was difficult and after the initial plunge, the router still had to be moved in a circular pattern 8-10 times for each hole.  It was slow going. The hole diameters averaged 20.20mm with a std deviation of .2mm. Time needed was 2 hours.  [mad]

The second 32 holes:
It started raining so I moved the project downstairs to the work bench. This bench is solid with no movement what so ever, it probably weighs in around 600-700#. The hole making was much easier because of the sturdiness of the bench, however the router still needed to be moved in a circular pattern 4-5 times for each hole. The hole diameters averaged 20.15mm with a std deviation of .05mm. A definite improvement. Time needed was 1-1/4 hours.  [sad]

At this point I decided to halt the project and just think about the next step. I had now produced 64 holes that averaged 20.20mm to 20.15mm in diameter. However the actual range of hole sizes was 19.92mm to 20.54mm. [eek]  This was pretty much out of control for precision positioning with existing commercial dogs.
Woodpeckers dogs = 19.90mm
Veritas dogs = 19.80mm
What I had was a top that could be used for clamping but certainly not for locating pieces precisely. 

After more measuring I realized the hole location accuracy for this jig was spot on. After routing 12 holes, the distance from the leading edge of the 1st hole to the leading edge of the 12th hole measured 1055.50mm versus a perfect dimension of 1056.00mm.  Not quite up to CNC tolerances but extremely accurate for this type of fixture.

What I really needed to control was the final hole diameter if I wanted to use this for precision registration of parts. Uniform hole diameter is what I was after. Once I achieved that, I could then make custom sized dogs that fit the holes or purchase the adjustable dogs from UJK.

With this in mind, I decided the next step would be to purchase the Festool 20mm hinge boring bit and use it with the Woodpeckers jig. The Festool bit would give me a consistently round hole and a consistently sized hole.
I just needed to machine an aluminum adapter ring with a snug ID to fit the Woodpeckers brass guide bushing and a snug OD to fit inside the Woodpeckers template. The final 32 holes were routed with this combination.

The third 32 holes:
The project was again moved outside and placed on the teak table. The OF 1400 speed was set to 4 and that seemed like a sweet spot.  The holes were incredibly easy to produce because the only motion needed was to plunge the boring bit into the ply. No extra circular motion needed. The holes came out to 20.10mm with a std deviation that's nil. Time needed was 15-20 minutes.  [big grin]   [big grin]

Photo 1. The aluminum adapter bushing.

Photo 2. The aluminum bushing along with the Woodpeckers guide bushing.

Photo 3. The average play between a dog and the first 32 holes, .016-.017".

Photo 4. The average play between a dog and the second 32 holes, .007-.008".

Photo 5. The average play between a dog and the third 32 holes, .005".

Photo 6. A typical hole routed with the 1/2" router bit and the circular motion needed to clean up the hole.

Photo 7. A look at several of the holes routed with the 1/2" router bit. Almost all of them appear to be irregular and a little out of round.

Photo 8. A look at several of the holes routed with the Festool hinge boring bit. Uniform in size and round.

Photo 9. The MFT layout square.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 05:04 PM by Cheese »

Offline mkasdin

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2020, 02:12 AM »
So did the 20mm Festool hinge boring bit do the job better, more accuracy and faster than the 1/2” bit?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2021, 10:00 PM »
So did the 20mm Festool hinge boring bit do the job better, more accuracy and faster than the 1/2” bit?

So @mkasdin the answers in order are...Absolutely...Absolutely...Absolutely.

Offline bigshaw929

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2021, 11:57 PM »
I received the Woodpeckers MFT Jig and decided to use it to route 20mm holes in 19mm thick Baltic birch using the recommended Whiteside 1/2" router bit.

The first 32 holes:
I worked on this top outside on a large teak table (roughly 250#) that will seat 12 people so it's rather sturdy, however it will still sway a little bit, much like an MFT. Not a lot of sway but it's there. The hole making was difficult and after the initial plunge, the router still had to be moved in a circular pattern 8-10 times for each hole.  It was slow going. The hole diameters averaged 20.20mm with a std deviation of .2mm. Time needed was 2 hours.  [mad]

The second 32 holes:
It started raining so I moved the project downstairs to the work bench. This bench is solid with no movement what so ever, it probably weighs in around 600-700#. The hole making was much easier because of the sturdiness of the bench, however the router still needed to be moved in a circular pattern 4-5 times for each hole. The hole diameters averaged 20.15mm with a std deviation of .05mm. A definite improvement. Time needed was 1-1/4 hours.  [sad]

At this point I decided to halt the project and just think about the next step. I had now produced 64 holes that averaged 20.20mm to 20.15mm in diameter. However the actual range of hole sizes was 19.92mm to 20.54mm. [eek]  This was pretty much out of control for precision positioning with existing commercial dogs.
Woodpeckers dogs = 19.90mm
Veritas dogs = 19.80mm
What I had was a top that could be used for clamping but certainly not for locating pieces precisely. 

After more measuring I realized the hole location accuracy for this jig was spot on. After routing 12 holes, the distance from the leading edge of the 1st hole to the leading edge of the 12th hole measured 1055.50mm versus a perfect dimension of 1056.00mm.  Not quite up to CNC tolerances but extremely accurate for this type of fixture.

What I really needed to control was the final hole diameter if I wanted to use this for precision registration of parts. Uniform hole diameter is what I was after. Once I achieved that, I could then make custom sized dogs that fit the holes or purchase the adjustable dogs from UJK.

With this in mind, I decided the next step would be to purchase the Festool 20mm hinge boring bit and use it with the Woodpeckers jig. The Festool bit would give me a consistently round hole and a consistently sized hole.
I just needed to machine an aluminum adapter ring with a snug ID to fit the Woodpeckers brass guide bushing and a snug OD to fit inside the Woodpeckers template. The final 32 holes were routed with this combination.

The third 32 holes:
The project was again moved outside and placed on the teak table. The OF 1400 speed was set to 4 and that seemed like a sweet spot.  The holes were incredibly easy to produce because the only motion needed was to plunge the boring bit into the ply. No extra circular motion needed. The holes came out to 20.10mm with a std deviation that's nil. Time needed was 15-20 minutes.  [big grin]   [big grin]

Photo 1. The aluminum adapter bushing.

Photo 2. The aluminum bushing along with the Woodpeckers guide bushing.

Photo 3. The average play between a dog and the first 32 holes, .016-.017".

Photo 4. The average play between a dog and the second 32 holes, .007-.008".

Photo 5. The average play between a dog and the third 32 holes, .005".

Photo 6. A typical hole routed with the 1/2" router bit and the circular motion needed to clean up the hole.

Photo 7. A look at several of the holes routed with the 1/2" router bit. Almost all of them appear to be irregular and a little out of round.

Photo 8. A look at several of the holes routed with the Festool hinge boring bit. Uniform in size and round.

Photo 9. The MFT layout square.
Cheese,
Did you make your own adapter bushing? I’m interested in acquiring one if possible? I don’t have the ability to make one but it looks to be just what this woodpeckers set is missing.
Thanks,
Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2021, 09:17 AM »
Cheese,
Did you make your own adapter bushing? I’m interested in acquiring one if possible? I don’t have the ability to make one but it looks to be just what this woodpeckers set is missing.
Thanks,
Bill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Morning @Cheese .  I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key.  Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?

I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2021, 09:58 AM »

Morning @Cheese .  I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key.  Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?

I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?

Hey Rick...unfortunately, machining a custom bushing is the only route that I know of.  [sad]  Over the last several years I've had 25-30 requests for a bushing so there is a market out there and it's probably a lot larger than we think. I've even given the dimensions/drawing to @jeffinsgf for him to diddle around with.

Just make sure that the bushing is a tight fit in the router and a slightly looser fit in the template. That way every time you reposition the router the bushing remains in the router.

I should add, I was boring through 18 mm Baltic birch rather than MDF and maybe that's the reason I had the issues that I did. At any rate, I just needed to solve the problem and the Festool cutter along with the bushing was the charm. The holes were rounder, easier to cut and faster to cut.

Also make sure to place a spoil board under the work piece to prevent tear-out on the bottom surface.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 10:08 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2021, 10:10 AM »
Thanks Cheese.  I sure hope WP could do something to help here.  If anyone can do machining like this, WP has the set up to do it. 

Offline acer66

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2021, 10:26 AM »
I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?
Are you using mdf or ply?

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2021, 10:48 AM »
Plywood. 

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2021, 04:11 PM »
- TSO still sells the ParfGuide Mk 2 . . . and its in stock [wink]

Hans

Offline ewils91

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2021, 04:25 PM »
- TSO still sells the ParfGuide Mk 2 . . . and its in stock [wink]

Hans
Stuff like this drives me to your competitors. 😉 Start your own thread. 😉

Offline acer66

  • Posts: 98
Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2021, 06:26 PM »
Plywood.

Thank you and it sounds like it is a solid tool.
I am trying to decide if I should buy the tool or just pre drilled sheets.

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2021, 10:46 PM »
Plywood.

Thank you and it sounds like it is a solid tool.
I am trying to decide if I should buy the tool or just pre drilled sheets.

I think it might be a good tool but I have been trying to find the correct 1/2" bit I want to use because it looks like getting a bushing that would work with the 20mm boring bit ain't gonna happen.  For a quick couple of holes, this jig would be easier than the Parf MK-II.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2021, 11:33 PM »
I think it might be a good tool but I have been trying to find the correct 1/2" bit I want to use because it looks like getting a bushing that would work with the 20mm boring bit ain't gonna happen.  For a quick couple of holes, this jig would be easier than the Parf MK-II.

I'm certainly not trying to throw salt in the wounds Rick but...I was working in the shop tonight checking out some prototype items and on a whim I decided to measure the distance between the spacing of the vertical holes and the spacing of the horizontal holes on an MFT that I produced using the Woodpecker's jig...the results were simply incredible.
Using a go/no-go gauge there were only 2 sets of holes in the entire field that failed the test. And those holes were machined using the original Woodpecker recommended 1/2" diameter router bit. Everything that was machined using the Festool bit with the bushing adapter passed the go/no-go gauge test.

There seems to be at least two things to do to improve this entire "make your own MFT process".

Number one is to standardize on a cutter diameter or on a manufacturer of a cutter......oh boy, just thinking about this will definitely lead me down another rabbit hole...it's probably time to stop.





Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2021, 09:21 AM »
No worries Cheese, more information is usually better.  I usually go to Whiteside when I need a bit.  The ones on the WP for this jig are all 'up-cut'.  Being somewhat of a rookie, I thought you would want a down cut here so your entry hole would be the best.  The WP sight does not list any of the 3-flute varieties, which I think may be better?  Thats why I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to figure which 1/2" bit.  Since you again confirm the 20mm is probably the better option, I will keep on that path.

Since the OF1400 is somewhat 'center challenged', can I do this with the OF1010?  I saw that the FT 20mm bit is 8mm shank so it would fit, but would the router be strong enough?  But again, that leaves me with the bushing issue.  Really not sure why WP didn't come up with one.

Offline acer66

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2021, 09:34 AM »
Since this would be my first experience with dog holes I might just get a sheet from Festool and worry about making my own later since there seems to be still things to ironed out with doing that yourself.

Watching Mr, Parf is seemed pretty straight forward though.

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2021, 10:27 AM »

Morning @Cheese .  I am very interested in buying this WP jig and after reading this thread, it looks like this bushing you made is the key.  Will this have to be homemade, as you did, or do you know of another option?

I use the Part MK-II with no issues and I have a cutting table I made, that gives me good 5-cut results.  I don't anticipate using this jig for registration work but I do like the thought of less time doing the boring, which I think you indicated that the boring bit is much quicker than the 1/2" cutter?

Hey Rick...unfortunately, machining a custom bushing is the only route that I know of.  [sad]  Over the last several years I've had 25-30 requests for a bushing so there is a market out there and it's probably a lot larger than we think. I've even given the dimensions/drawing to @jeffinsgf for him to diddle around with.

Just make sure that the bushing is a tight fit in the router and a slightly looser fit in the template. That way every time you reposition the router the bushing remains in the router.

I should add, I was boring through 18 mm Baltic birch rather than MDF and maybe that's the reason I had the issues that I did. At any rate, I just needed to solve the problem and the Festool cutter along with the bushing was the charm. The holes were rounder, easier to cut and faster to cut.

Also make sure to place a spoil board under the work piece to prevent tear-out on the bottom surface.

can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me. 

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2021, 10:27 AM »
can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me.

Here ya go...however, rather than going off of my dimensions, I'd suggest you gather up your items and measure those for a nice fit.

I've mentioned before that you want a nice snug fit on the ID of the aluminum bushing to the OD of the Woodpecker brass adapter, but a looser fit between the OD of the aluminum bushing and the ID of the Woodpecker jig. That way the aluminum bushing will always stay with the router which makes it a lot easier/faster to machine the holes.

I measured the ID of 3 different holes on the Woodpeckers jig. I measured each hole in 2 places 90º to each other. Here are the results:
1st hole = 1.474/1.475"
2nd hole = 1.472/1.473"
3rd hole = 1.473/1.474"
OD of my aluminum bushing = 1.470/1.470"

OD of Woodpecker brass adapter = 1.180/1.180"
ID of my aluminum bushing = 1.181/1.182"

Thickness/height of the aluminum bushing is .315".
Both the OD & the ID should have small chamfers to ease/aid assembly.




Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2021, 11:34 AM »
can you share the drawings/dimensions for the adapter? I can ask my friend to machine it for me.

Here ya go...however, rather than going off of my dimensions, I'd suggest you gather up your items and measure those for a nice fit.

I've mentioned before that you want a nice snug fit on the ID of the aluminum bushing to the OD of the Woodpecker brass adapter, but a looser fit between the OD of the aluminum bushing and the ID of the Woodpecker jig. That way the aluminum bushing will always stay with the router which makes it a lot easier/faster to machine the holes.

I measured the ID of 3 different holes on the Woodpeckers jig. I measured each hole in 2 places 90º to each other. Here are the results:
1st hole = 1.474/1.475"
2nd hole = 1.472/1.473"
3rd hole = 1.473/1.474"
OD of my aluminum bushing = 1.470/1.470"

OD of Woodpecker brass adapter = 1.180/1.180"
ID of my aluminum bushing = 1.181/1.182"

Thickness/height of the aluminum bushing is .315".
Both the OD & the ID should have small chamfers to ease/aid assembly.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Thank you. So both get used with the 20mm bit? Woodpecker adapter and yours? Sorry trying to visualize it? Happen to have a picture of the assembled setup?


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Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2021, 12:17 PM »

Thank you. So both get used with the 20mm bit? Woodpecker adapter and yours? Sorry trying to visualize it? Happen to have a picture of the assembled setup?


Yes both get used. The Woodpeckers brass adapter gets installed into the Festool template guide. Top view.




Bottom view with Woodpeckers brass adapter poking out the bottom.




Bottom view of the aluminum bushing being placed over the Woodpeckers brass adapter.




The aluminum adapter now becomes the pilot for plunge cutting holes using the Festool 20 mm router bit.




Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2021, 12:45 PM »
Thank you
Hmm my bit looks different


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Online afish

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2021, 04:47 PM »
Im guessing that last photo cheese posted was when he was using the jig as WP intended and going around in circles to make the hole prior to his 2.0 version which seems like the logical way to do it.  IM not sure why they made the jig that way... Based on personal experience its darn near impossible to cut a perfectly round hole that way.

My bigger question is, I thought I had read lots of people complaining that the Festool bit 491072 produced a slightly larger hole and was problematic making for loose fitting dogs.  Is this not the case?  It seems easier just to make a new jig with the proper sized holes to fit the festool 30mm bushing and skip the custom machine ring.  From what I know about WP its going to be the cheaper method for sure. 

Back when I used the Parf MKII the bit that came with it made for very good fitting dogs (veritas and UJK dogs) I know there are lots of makers of dogs and that could be part of the issue to.  I wouldn't be opposed to making up some jigs on the cnc but I would have to figure out and buy the rings needed first so I can dial in the hole size just right for said ring.  It does take some experimentation and trial and error to get the hole just right so there is zero slop but also not a press fit. 

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2021, 06:15 PM »
Im guessing that last photo cheese posted was when he was using the jig as WP intended and going around in circles to make the hole prior to his 2.0 version which seems like the logical way to do it.  IM not sure why they made the jig that way... Based on personal experience its darn near impossible to cut a perfectly round hole that way.

@afish  You're absolutely correct and on several issues.  [big grin]  The bit shown is the original 1/2" dia. Whiteside. 

During this entire debacle I talked several times with a WP engineer and he said they took about a half dozen MFT's and checked them on their vision system. Also, 2 of the MFT's were newly purchased so WP was keenly knowledgeable about the range of diameters of the holes along with the range of alignment of the holes.

WP did a great job in maintaining a narrow range of alignment of holes, however their choice of how to bore the holes...not so much. Especially if you use a Festool 1400 or 2200 router because of template ring shifting issues. Besides, you know people will be using this boring template on everything from MDF to ply to 1 3/4" maple bench tops and the "moving the router in circles" approach is fraught with real & other potential issues.

I'd have started with deciding upon the hole diameter you want to bore and then contact Whiteside or another toolmaker and have some cutters manufactured. The method used is really second to maintaining consistent hole diameters.



 


Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2021, 06:53 PM »
Ha good catch. totally missed it

@Cheese what is the height of your aluminum bushing? hard to tell from the pictures
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 06:55 PM by festal »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2021, 09:50 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2021, 09:52 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”
Thank you


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Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2022, 06:06 PM »
.315 or really 5/16”
Got the part. Just a tad too big to fit darn it


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Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2022, 07:40 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
[mention]Cheese [/mention] how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.
Will try to route few holes today to see how it goes



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Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2022, 09:53 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
@Cheese  how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.

I fabricated mine to be a tight fit on the Woodpecker bushing and a slip fit on the Woodpecker MFT jig. That way each time you move the router, the bushing also goes along for the ride.  [smile] 

Otherwise, you have to put the router down, remove the bushing from the jig, move the bushing to the next hole, pick the router back up and rout the hole...that method is a PITA.

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2022, 09:59 AM »
Few minutes on the belt sander and it fits
@Cheese  how tight of a fit should it be ? I over did it a bit on the belt sander and it was falling off the woodpeckers bushing adapter. Little bit of blue tape fixed that part.

I fabricated mine to be a tight fit on the Woodpecker bushing and a slip fit on the Woodpecker MFT jig. That way each time you move the router, the bushing also goes along for the ride.  [smile] 

Otherwise, you have to put the router down, remove the bushing from the jig, move the bushing to the next hole, pick the router back up and rout the hole...that method is a PITA.

Yep thats what I figured.  Moving it hole to hole will get annoying really fast.  I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2022, 10:08 AM »
I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

You could also add a few drops of cyanoacrylate to the combo. There's no harm in having the 2 pieces permanently bonded to each other, you're not going to use either one of them by themselves...they only function properly as a pair.

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2022, 10:10 AM »
I'll give it a try with painter's tape between the woodpeckers bushing and your bushing,  dry run works well, lets see how it goes when the router is running.

You could also add a few drops of cyanoacrylate to the combo. There's no harm in having the 2 pieces permanently bonded to each other, you're not going to use either one of them by themselves...they only function properly as a pair.

hmm very good point.  Didn't think of that.  Thank you

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2022, 04:16 PM »
Success but not without my stupidity lol

End result




Lessons learned - don’t forget to adjust the stick out of the bit
I was wondering why it wouldn’t route deeper then the but from the bushing came loose. Few scratches in the collet lock but other then that no damage. Also the threads on the screw on lock nut got damaged but I got a spare one so it’s ok

This is the stick out I needed to go through the template and 3/4” plywood


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« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 07:49 AM by festal »

Offline ricleh

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2022, 04:25 PM »
I just got a lathe and am learning to use it.  I decided to try and make the aluminum bushing from this thread and it turned out quite well.  I then was reading about the accuracy concerns regarding the OF1400 guide bushing adapters.  I decided to make a replacement guide bushing adapter to see if I could improve on the precision centering of the router bit.  Here are some pictures of what I made.  I am quite pleased with the results.  No discernable play in the bushing when inserted in the template and the router bit is perfectly centered (within .001" anyway).

Online festal

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Re: Last day to order Woodpeckers OneTIME DIY MFT Jig (US)
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2022, 05:43 PM »
Very nice


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