Author Topic: CMS Router Table Officially Discontinued in US Market (Read 12745 times)

Chip S. · « **on:** November 08, 2021, 03:30 PM »

Festool has informed us of the discontinuation of the router table to the US market, effective immediately. We do have a small quantity remaining in stock.

rocky100370 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2021, 05:40 AM »

Hi Chip thanks for the info. Do we know how much of a drop in cost yet?

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2021, 07:13 AM »

If the UK market is anything to go by I would grab one of these as soon as you can as they just do not appear on ebay any more or they get sold very quickly.

Peter

DynaGlide · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2021, 07:46 AM »

What's confusing to me with this is Festool announced a price increase on the CMS-GE Jan 1st 2022

Festool CMS-GE Router Table Set (203158)
Now $1760

Jan. 1st $1850

From US Tool and Fastener e-mail the other day.

Cheese · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2021, 09:01 AM »

I'm surprised it's taken Festool this long to confirm the discontinuation of this item. There must have been a large supply of these either in the US or somewhere in the supply chain.

I'd heard/read that this item was being discontinued in July 2019 so I ordered/purchased mine in Aug. 2019 for $1820. Then it never disappeared but just soldiered on at the reduced price of $1760. And so finally, 28 months later it's official.

If the history of the MFS...RAS...and RS 2 tells us anything, the remaining supply of CMS units will dry up fast.

squall_line · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2021, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: rocky100370 on November 09, 2021, 05:40 AM

Hi Chip thanks for the info. Do we know how much of a drop in cost yet?

See the response from @Cheese below; they "dropped" the price by $60 about 2 years ago. I wouldn't anticipate any sort of price drop on this item; Festool rarely does that, they usually just quietly discontinue an item and wait for it to all sell through at its last given MSRP.

Peter_C · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2021, 01:52 PM »

Quote from: squall_line on November 09, 2021, 10:19 AM

See the response from @Cheese below; they "dropped" the price by $60 about 2 years ago. I wouldn't anticipate any sort of price drop on this item; Festool rarely does that, they usually just quietly discontinue an item and wait for it to all sell through at its last given MSRP.

Hmmm...I often see prices drop substantially when a Festool product is discontinued. OF2000 router was about $320. RAS 115 was selling for around $200. Lots of accessories are also sold at blow out prices. Although this is one of the few times I doubt there will be a price drop, and I too would expect the CMS to sell out quickly.

Although I really like mine for portability, a full size unit will always be superior. What other table saw can you pickup and carry one handed though? Now that I have a Unisaw, no longer do I have a need for a Bosch 4100 as my portable saw so it will be getting sold.

squall_line · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2021, 02:39 PM »

Quote from: Peter_C on November 09, 2021, 01:52 PM

What other table saw can you pickup and carry one handed though? Now that I have a Unisaw, no longer do I have a need for a Bosch 4100 as my portable saw so it will be getting sold.

I'm confused. I thought this was about a Router table?

Peter_C · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2021, 02:44 PM »

Quote from: squall_line on November 09, 2021, 02:39 PM

I'm confused. I thought this was about a Router table?

That is just the starting point...the table saw insert comes next. I can pickup the router table in it with one hand too. Depends on the job of the day. If portability is important, the unit works awesome! Unless space is an issue, which for most it probably is, full size equipment will always be superior.

squall_line · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2021, 02:53 PM »

The table saw insert was discontinued two years ago because of EU rules, and I don't believe it was ever available in the US, so it's somewhat a moot point.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a discount on the CMS router table; it's on my short list along with a TS 75 for some projects I have coming up. I don't know that it's prudent to wait and see if a price decrease happens if I truly want one, though.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2021, 04:53 PM »

Well, I think you better hurry, as Peter Parfitt mentioned, stock vanished fast in Europe right after the tell of the discontinued CMS system. I had a look to UK stockists, and their stock didn’t last long. I was fairly new to Festool back then, and had eyeballed some CMS units and bits to go.. I didn’t realise until it was almost too late to find something. I visited Sweden and managed to grab from a sparse stock from a large dealer there.

I noticed that the OP with Chip S at Festool Nirvana have already sold out..

Once a desired, but expensive product suddenly goes obsolete, there’s a lot of thinkers that are on the fence that makes the decision to buy fast.. including me..

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2021, 09:09 PM »

I just ordered a CMS-GE from Hartville/Amazon (Tool Nut and Nirvana were out of stock). I have a Jessem table on order but of course delivery backed up.
I will leave the order standing with Jessem and see how I like the Festool table.
I have the Kapex UHG and extensions. Do they fasten to the CMS table?

squall_line · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2021, 10:05 PM »

Quote from: Stan Tillinghast on November 09, 2021, 09:09 PM

I have the Kapex UHG and extensions. Do they fasten to the CMS table?

Yes, the UG wings/extensions fasten to the CMS table and are the same height. They can be used as infeed/outfeed for narrow stock. There's a short, 33-second Youtube video where Sedge shows this and breaks character at the end.

I believe the MW-1000 extension table also hooks to the CMS (the profile isn't 100% the same as the MFT) for wider stock, aside from the stock outfeed table that comes with the GE-Set.

I can only imagine trying to keep a straight face working with him...

Don_hoosier_handmade · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2021, 10:46 PM »

I heard this at woodcraft in Indianapolis this past weekend. The gentleman said it was due to some new UK requirement for the switch.

Chip S. · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2021, 09:48 AM »

As has been mentioned, we did sell out of our stock quickly. I imagine other dealers will also and wouldn't suggest waiting too long if you're wanting one.

Appreciate the orders from those of you who purchased the router table from us.

Cheese · « **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2021, 09:56 AM »

Quote from: Don_hoosier_handmade on November 09, 2021, 10:46 PM

I heard this at woodcraft in Indianapolis this past weekend. The gentleman said it was due to some new UK requirement for the switch.

First off

to the FOG.

Here's a more detailed read on the CMS situation from back in 2019.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-cms-discontinued/60/

squall_line · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2021, 10:29 AM »

Thanks to this thread, for the first time in a long time, I made a retail purchase of a major Festool product. The last time was when I grabbed a CXS from my local Acme because I was tired of waiting on Recon. (of course, now CXS's sit on Recon once a month or so)

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2021, 01:12 PM »

Quote from: squall_line on November 10, 2021, 10:29 AM

Thanks to this thread, for the first time in a long time, I made a retail purchase of a major Festool product. The last time was when I grabbed a CXS from my local Acme because I was tired of waiting on Recon. (of course, now CXS's sit on Recon once a month or so)

Congratulations on the big buy!

And yes why should you have more luck than the rest of us

It’s always like that when I’m looking for something special, until I have gotten it, it’s like it is suddenly a great amount of offerings straight after my purchase. Then it goes quiet again..

Pre-owned prices of the router package is highly likely to rise a bit in the not so long future too.

squall_line · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2021, 01:37 PM »

Quote from: FestitaMakool on November 10, 2021, 01:12 PM

Quote from: squall_line on November 10, 2021, 10:29 AM
Thanks to this thread, for the first time in a long time, I made a retail purchase of a major Festool product. The last time was when I grabbed a CXS from my local Acme because I was tired of waiting on Recon. (of course, now CXS's sit on Recon once a month or so)

Congratulations on the big buy!
And yes why should you have more luck than the rest of us It’s always like that when I’m looking for something special, until I have gotten it, it’s like it is suddenly a great amount of offerings straight after my purchase. Then it goes quiet again..

Pre-owned prices of the router package is highly likely to rise a bit in the not so long future too.

Thanks! And yes, isn't that Recon thing always the case?

I've been looking at buying a CMS GE used for the past few months. I missed out on an eBay listing where one went for about 200 under list, including shipping (I was busy when the listing ended and prefer to bid snipe), but other local listings have all been for right around full retail already. As you said, I doubt that will improve. The only place I tend to find low prices on big items like this are estate sales, but with the internet even the most remote estate sale will have market pricing on Festool equipment.

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2021, 07:05 PM »

Hartville has shipped my unit. Last I looked they had 2 units left.

JimH2 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2021, 09:25 PM »

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

squall_line · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2021, 09:52 PM »

Quote from: JimH2 on November 10, 2021, 09:25 PM

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

I did quite a bit of research and the price points weren't that much different once all of the accessories and dust collection were added on. Ultimately my need to be able to store it away when not in use to claim garage space and my current stable of Festool routers landed me on the CMS GE.

squall_line · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2021, 11:08 PM »

Quote from: Stan Tillinghast on November 10, 2021, 07:05 PM

Hartville has shipped my unit. Last I looked they had 2 units left.

I ordered mine from Hartville as well; they've been very good to me this year with consumables I've ordered from them. I just received shipping notices for all 6 boxes that apparently make up the entire kit.

I anticipate the official e-mail from Hartville will follow once their system processes the batch for the day.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2021, 11:42 PM »

Quote from: JimH2 on November 10, 2021, 09:25 PM

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

Many people have looked at it and found the Festool CMS is the best option. What people find to be "better" is massively subjective. Larger table....what it someone wants a smaller table.

The big thing is all the other solutions out there are some form of roll your own merging various companies bits together, which is exactly what a lot of people don't want.

Router lifts are not cheap. But then you need to go get a router to mount in that, oh and that router is unlikely to have the dust collection qualities of a festool router. Then of course you have to mount it in something. Then find a fence..... Or, a person could just press "buy" on a single item and be done. Use the router they have.

This is like "MFTs are over priced, I can make the same thing cheaper". No, you can't. You can make a thing, and you might have spent less making it, but you didn't make an MFT. What you make may have aspects that are better for what you want, which is fine.

Festool stopped selling more basic CMS setup, so yes, what is there is expensive, but to re-create something like that, would not be easy.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #24 on:** November 11, 2021, 04:10 AM »

In coordination of what DeformedTree writes..

I did my research considering Jessem, Incra, UJK and Kreg. If I wanted to invest into some the best solutions taking into what all aspects of what the Festool solution offers, it came out nearly or the same expensive. But, questionable dust collection, none had the offset fence option unless with shims, portability to go with the rigid base frame of the GE (Mounted on top of a cabinet it’s as solid as one could get). Add to that a sliding table, a reasonably good protractor that works with the sliding table.

And like many, I had the OF 1400 already, which for me meant I didn’t have to find the “right” router and lift on top of that. Still the OF 1400 unbolts easy to be used handheld.

Once you realise that most components are compatible with other Festool saws (Precisio) and various tables, wings and so on, it makes a very versatile and compact package.

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

edwarmr · « **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2021, 09:14 AM »

The CMS is a good router table for what it is meant for, which is portability. I'm sure it's the best portable table out there by a long shot. However I strongly disagree that it is as good as a Jessem or Incra table.

The CMS fence is not my favorite. The featherboard unit that attaches to the fence sticks out way too far and I find it to be annoying and in the way. I took the featherboard assembly out of the fence due to this but without the featherboard attached the fence rattled like crazy when the router was running. Jessem and Incra both have fences that are better in my opinion and they both have offsets on the fence (with Incra you can offset the infeed and outfeed). Dust collection is good but the Incra table with the clean sweep is much better in my opinion. Dados on the CMS still spew out dust whereas on the Incra most of that dust is collected because of the clean sweep rings and a good dust collector. The sliding table on the CMS is nice but takes up a lot of room and isn't something that I would want attached to the table all the time.

The full Incra setup with an amazing router lift that far surpasses the CMS lifting mechanism would run you about $1,500 after shipping if you use Incra's 10% off new customer coupon. Still almost $300 cheaper than the CMS. Add in a Woodpecker's coping sled and you are at around $1,650 total for your setup. Granted you need a good router to go with it but it would still be much cheaper than buying an OF 1400 for $625 or around $1,000 for an OF 2200. Plus with the Incra you have the LS Positioner. The LS Positioner is incredible to say the least. I have used it attached to my MFT as a fence for my CMS-VL instead of the stock Festool fence. I made a custom bracket to attach the Jessem TA fence to it and the micro adjust on the LS is just an awesome feature to have. That being said...

I went all in on the CMS assuming it could give me amazing results as both a saw with the TS-75 and a router table with the OF 1400. I was disappointed in the results to say the least but mainly with its abilities as a saw. The cuts were just not clean at all. There is no way to make the CMS-TS have a zero clearance which is unfortunate and has led to tear out on cuts. The router table aspect is good but just not as good as when I had the Incra stand alone table.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from the CMS but just wanted to say that for the price it is not in my opinion the best router table out there. If you want the portability though go for it as it is your best option.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2021, 11:19 AM »

Quote from: FestitaMakool on November 11, 2021, 04:10 AM

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

I keep thinking they just need to shove the guts of an OF1400 or OF2200 into a CS70/TKS80 chassis and run with that. Leverage interchangeable accessories, etc. They haven't shown anything yet, so maybe that just won't happen. But maybe once the last CMS is sold, then they will announce.

Only Festool knows how well the CMS system concept really sold, even with out the EU rules, maybe it would have gone away. It just is hard to think a company famous for routers just wouldn't have a router table setup. They sell Saws and Table Saws, selling Routers and Router Tables would be pretty obvious. There is always a market for compact/portable tools. Not everyone wants or can have fixed stationary large machines.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2021, 05:16 PM »

Quote from: DeformedTree on November 11, 2021, 11:19 AM

Quote from: FestitaMakool on November 11, 2021, 04:10 AM

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

I keep thinking they just need to shove the guts of an OF1400 or OF2200 into a CS70/TKS80 chassis and run with that. Leverage interchangeable accessories, etc. They haven't shown anything yet, so maybe that just won't happen. But maybe once the last CMS is sold, then they will announce.

Only Festool knows how well the CMS system concept really sold, even with out the EU rules, maybe it would have gone away. It just is hard to think a company famous for routers just wouldn't have a router table setup. They sell Saws and Table Saws, selling Routers and Router Tables would be pretty obvious. There is always a market for compact/portable tools. Not everyone wants or can have fixed stationary large machines.

Let’s hope so. I’ve noticed cabinet and furniture makers use them as additional tools and as a mobile solution. Over here there’s really only Kreg that has one table that can be mobile (for one man) but this is quite basic in features.

One way they could have solved it, is by incorporating a second PlugIt socket (a micro version) to the router body which is connected to the power control module on the router switch and you’d run a second control cable to the external NVR switch (Off course, this could handle an electronic speed control too

) But, the “New” OF 1010 seems to have the usual pot meter for speed dial. A new OF 1400 maybe 😇

Samo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 11, 2021, 09:04 PM »

Quote from: edwarmr on November 11, 2021, 09:14 AM

I went all in on the CMS assuming it could give me amazing results as both a saw with the TS-75 and a router table with the OF 1400. I was disappointed in the results to say the least but mainly with its abilities as a saw. The cuts were just not clean at all. There is no way to make the CMS-TS have a zero clearance which is unfortunate and has led to tear out on cuts. The router table aspect is good but just not as good as when I had the Incra stand alone table.

@edwarmr

I also went all in. My needs are for a small system at home and also to justify the TS75 that I needed for entry doors and rough stock, slabs, etc.

My only regrets are:

I need to buy a better fence with the VL/MFT setup. NAINA the CS 70 LA 488062

https://www.festool.com/accessory/488062---cs-70-la#Overview

My TS75 has a bit of run-out or blade wobble. edwarmr is this what you are experiencing?

edwarmr · « **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2021, 10:57 PM »

@Samo

Part of me is glad I’m not the only one but I’m sorry you are dealing with the same thing. Your explanation makes sense and is probably what I’m experiencing.

I have used the stock blade as well as the panther for ripping and the results are not very good with either. I ALWAYS have blade marks with whatever type of hardwood I use (walnut, sapele, hard maple). This is true whether I’m crosscutting or ripping. I have the ability to micro adjust to cut only a few thousandths of an inch if I want since I use the LS positioner along with my Jessem fence. Even when I cut only a few thousandths the blade marks are pretty bad. I even use the Jessem clear cut table saw stock guides and nothing changes. It’s probably runout like you mentioned. Is this normal with the TS 75? Do you have runout as well when you use it as a track saw? I’m just curious if anything changes.

If you are using the CMS-VL with your MFT you would love having the Incra LS positioner on there. It’s very convenient. If you are interested in getting the CS 70 LA though I have a source I can refer you to in Europe. Just PM me and I can give you my email address.