Author Topic: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool  (Read 2078 times)

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Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1097
25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« on: October 17, 2019, 11:25 AM »
https://www.hartvilletool.com/

They also have the RAS115 for $200.

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 411
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 11:39 AM »
I believe this is the previous model, not the new model with a "better " motor.  Still $ 300 off  is nothing to sneeze at .
Vijay Kumar

Offline safety1st

  • Posts: 184
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 11:43 AM »
I get their promo email and it says in the ad: same redesigned motor as the new Kapex.

May be good to verify.

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1097
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 11:46 AM »
I believe this is the previous model, not the new model with a "better " motor.  Still $ 300 off  is nothing to sneeze at .

Yes, it's the discontinued model - Festool 561287 Kapex KS 120 EB Sliding Compound Miter Saw.

And the price is $1,106.25.  That's a savings of $368.75.

Offline hemlock

  • Posts: 114
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 01:46 PM »
So the question seems to be, if these old models do indeed have the new motor parts; is whether the new angle gauge location and new extensions are worth $368? Are there other differences between the new and the old other than this?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1318
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 02:21 PM »
The reduced price is definitely a deal breaker even if the motor is the old type, as after a fix (if it does smoke), the new parts will fix it.

Even better if the motor is the new type, just the rest old.

Bottom line: the 25% off is worth the risk (of smoking and then getting fixed with new parts).

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2019, 09:35 AM »
The reduced price is definitely a deal breaker even if the motor is the old type, as after a fix (if it does smoke), the new parts will fix it.

Bottom line: the 25% off is worth the risk (of smoking and then getting fixed with new parts).

I don't think this is a slam dunk.   I'm still skeptical that the "new" motor has solved the problem given the track record.

  People have reported failures even after motor replacement (though not recently) and Festool's denial that there even is/was a problem doesn't make me want to bet the same horse again.    And what if the same guy or team that designed the faulty , not a problem motor implemented the so called fix ?  Did they really fix whatever the problem wasn't ?

But, if you're in the market for this saw anyway, 25% off a new in the box Festool with full warranty is hard to pass up. 

Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 109
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 10:24 AM »
Hartville doesn’t charge tax and has free shipping.  For me in Hawaii, shipping is $12 which is extremely good.  Many companies won’t ship at all anymore or charge prohibited amounts.  Assuming the motors are the same, the risk of motor failure is the same in both new and old.  Are the updates really worth $370?  Very tempting.

Offline hemlock

  • Posts: 114
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 11:06 AM »
Even with the new motor (I don't see how Festool would not have the new motor in the new builds of old model after admitting it was a problem); I'm not comfortable purchasing a Kapex even at 25% off.  Over the past 10 years I have transitioned my shop to primarily Festool. I think it would be quicker to list the Festools I do not have than those that I do. 

My point is, I've bought into the premium pricing, service, quality, reliability, and innovation that most Festools reflect.  But I just can't get there on the Kapex given the history of the saw and how Festool handled the motor issue. Eight years ago I bought a new SCMS and it was between the Bosch Glide and Kapex.  Bosch won then.  With this sale, I was tempted at 25% off as I will be finishing the inside of our cabin over the next couple years and thought it would be an asset for that and a time to change to better dust collection. But I just can't justify the cost:risk. Maybe after a few years of the new saw in service with no motor issues, I'll reconsider.

Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 206
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2019, 03:41 PM »
Hartville doesn’t charge tax and has free shipping.  For me in Hawaii, shipping is $12 which is extremely good.  Many companies won’t ship at all anymore or charge prohibited amounts.  Assuming the motors are the same, the risk of motor failure is the same in both new and old.  Are the updates really worth $370?  Very tempting.

Hartville charges tax.. at least for me in VA

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1318
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2019, 04:08 PM »
Snip.
  People have reported failures even after motor replacement (though not recently) and Festool's denial that there even is/was a problem doesn't make me want to bet the same horse again.    And what if the same guy or team that designed the faulty , not a problem motor implemented the so called fix ?  Did they really fix whatever the problem wasn't ?



I have not seen or heard any reports of Kapex failures either with the new motors or with an old motor that has been fixed with new parts? Has anyone?

as I pointed out earlier, the new motors and new parts are indeed too new to tell if they're the final deal.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1318
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 04:18 PM »
Snip.
My point is, I've bought into the premium pricing, service, quality, reliability, and innovation that most Festools reflect.  But I just can't get there on the Kapex given the history of the saw and how Festool handled the motor issue.

No reasonable Festool users, owning a Kapex or not, would disagree that Festool has handled this file badly. The very bad publicity must also be one of the reasons why the old Kapexes have not been selling and why Festool has to slash prices today. The corporate management has itself to blame for its silence and for letting a technical problem cause lingering damage to its reputation.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 05:10 PM »
Snip.
  People have reported failures even after motor replacement (though not recently) and Festool's denial that there even is/was a problem doesn't make me want to bet the same horse again.    And what if the same guy or team that designed the faulty , not a problem motor implemented the so called fix ?  Did they really fix whatever the problem wasn't ?



I have not seen or heard any reports of Kapex failures either with the new motors or with an old motor that has been fixed with new parts? Has anyone?

as I pointed out earlier, the new motors and new parts are indeed too new to tell if they're the final deal.

I believe, but I might be wrong that there were numerous attempts along the way while trying to diagnose and isolate the actual problem cause ieading to this motor design.  Details I do not know so don't bother asking me.  I do know that the number of complaints here is down.

Could have Festool handled this better - in my opinion - yes. 

If my Kapex wasn't so well I would consider either a latest model or the soon to come model.

Peter

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 08:42 PM »
Quote
I have not seen or heard any reports of Kapex failures either with the new motors or with an old motor that has been fixed with new parts? Has anyone?

as I pointed out earlier, the new motors and new parts are indeed too new to tell if they're the final deal.



This thread was started because of a repeat problem on a repaired Kapex:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/another-kapex-bites-the-dust-again/

This is not an isolated report  (on this forum or others)  of a repaired saw breaking again.  You need only do a simple search and spend a lot of time reading.   

Now it's hard to ascertain who, what, where, and when the "new" motors started going into production and repairs since Festool is mum on the subject.   I think it reasonable to assume "new" motors went in all  REB variants and repairs from that time period. I would think they tried it on for size long before it was green lit for production, but  who knows?  And I doubt we'll ever here when that started either.  What's harder to gauge is whether the "new" motor has actually solved the issue.  I don't think enough runtime has passed to render judgement.

I find it interesting that Festool's handling of the issue has ticked off the wrong person; or enough people that at least one law firm is exploring a class action for kapex owners.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1318
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2019, 08:56 PM »
The thread you quoted began in 2017, long before Festool made a public statement (in June or July? this year) about "improved parts" for the motors. I'd like to know if any users whose EB saw motors failed again after they were repaired with the "improved parts", or whose failed motors belong to the REB model (as opposed to the EB model).

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 09:56 PM »
Like I said, too soon to tell if the "new" motor really fixed the problem.   

The previous fix from festool didn't work for some people. They could have just been going through the motions and replacing like for like on burnt motors. We don't know. 

At some point they probably started replacing warranty calls with the new motor.  But as I said previously, it's too soon to tell whether this latest "new" fix addresses the problem.  So, I don't think you will find anyone that has a smoked kapex that was repaired this year or a new REB model that has either.   Neither have enough mileage on them to say.   Even the old ones took some hours of use before the problem manifested itself.

I hope the engineers have found a smoking gun in the kapex motor design that they were able to rectify.  It's just too soon to tell if they were successful.    It's a very nice saw with some great features.  Those features aren't worth the premium to a lot of people with a cloud of reliability hanging over its head.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6625
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2019, 01:35 AM »
The Germans do so many things correctly, but when they truly hose a process up they do it with VIGOR. That pretty much sums up the Kapex debacle.

It rather reminds me of the current state in American politics.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1474
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2019, 04:26 AM »
The Germans do so many things correctly, but when they truly hose a process up they do it with VIGOR.
Yes, following rules and procedures with no questions asked seems to be our cultural boon and bane.

Offline Bird

  • Posts: 6
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2019, 11:31 PM »
On a topic other than the motor, I see the REB has a locking dust collection port. Is that improvement significant? Might the new locking port be put on the old saw?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1814
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2019, 07:15 AM »
So far the locking ports are an unnecessary feature, so I would not go out of my way to add one to any existing tool, and if I could buy a new tool and hose without it, I would.
-Raj

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 871
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2019, 01:26 PM »
I agree that the locking ports are an unnecessary feature.  They just collect dust at the connection that spills out when you remove the hose.  This excess dust is very aggravating when using the sanders.

FYI - Amazon has the same deal as Hartville Tool (fulfilled by Hartville Tool).
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1318
Re: 25% Off Discontinued Kapex at Hartville Tool
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2019, 02:44 PM »
Amazon [huh]

I can't but wonder how many EBs all the dealers combined are trying to get rid of with this sale that is available in both Canada and US. The reduced price is even lower than the price I paid 4 years ago.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 02:48 PM by ChuckM »