Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 69175 times)

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Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 80
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #270 on: June 28, 2020, 12:53 PM »
Not sure what procedure you are following, but I've had excellent results with my set doing following:

Drill first two holes at extremities of the stick (say 0 and 10) then insert pins.  At this point you need to be careful as you can introduce flex in the ruler, I clamp ruler very carefully and check that clamping does not flex or push the ruler.  Next drill center hole (5 in this example) add the third pin and from there drilling the other holes is straightforward.

If you are drilling 3mm holes from one end to the other (0 then 1, then 2 .....) then flex errors are more likely.  Hopefully nothing wrong with your kit.  Sorry, sounds like you were drilling a fairly finished panel that is now possibly spoiled?

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #271 on: June 28, 2020, 12:54 PM »
Hi @Hollatime  and thanks to @AstroKeith

The biggest error that users of the Mark 2 PGS make is in registering the pins in the rulers. The pins have a 6 mm boss that fits (very) snugly in the ruler yet it is all too easy to think that the two are registered but are not.

In order to have a foolproof approach do the following. When trying to engage a pin in the ruler lift the ruler slightly and make sure that the 6 mm part of the pin really does engage in the 6 mm hole of the ruler. Then push the pin and ruler down together.

The tolerances are tight and when you first receive your Mark 2 you may need to use a twisting motion to get the engagement between pin and ruler the first few times.

It was a hard decision to have this 6 mm hole/boss approach but the key advantage is the super accuracy when drilling the 3 mm holes. The 3 mm guided drilling is spot on.

I am really grateful to Hans @TSO Products for the support that he is giving to the ever growing PGS community.

I am also pleased that Ron Paulk is now using the Mark 2 version for all of his custom bench tops.

Take care everyone and stay safe during this difficult time.

Peter

Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 35
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #272 on: June 28, 2020, 06:12 PM »
@Vtshopdog  @Peter Parfitt


I don’t think it’s an issue with locating the pins as it’s occurring in the very first set of 10mm holes. I’ve watched your video/do the whole register pin then push it+parf stick down etc.

VTshopdog. I do the same operation except never used the third pin. Drilling the last 2 test rows I left the sticks fully clamped the entire time. Always finish before just in case it effects the tolerance of the holes.  Annoying time wise for me but a ruined panel/scrap pretty common for me haha


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« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 07:35 PM by Hollatime »

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 244
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #273 on: June 28, 2020, 07:37 PM »
Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?
The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

The bushing is 6mm for the MK 2 and is made for the 3mm drill.  Is this what you mean?

My Parf Guide MK 2 arrived last week from Axminster, but I didn't open it up until now because of the problems you are having with yours.  After I wiped all of the oil off of the components, I tried both of the 6mm bushings for drilling, the three 3mm pins with 6mm shoulder, and the 6mm joining screw.  Everything fit snuggly in the rail holes and I could not move them side to side at all.  With both rails joined, all of the holes line up as perfectly as I can see and everything is solid with no movement at all.


Made sure to try to tap the straight edges straight and what not since the pins are curved, again try hard mode engaged for sure.

This has me really confused.  What are you tapping to straighten and which pins are curved?

Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 35
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #274 on: June 28, 2020, 07:41 PM »
Having an issue getting good results, ordered from Axminister roughly start of May this year so assumed the old issues were worked out. I reached out to support but guess they are closed through the weekend, and plenty of knowledgeable users here.

How much, if any play should be in the 3mm bushing?
The 3mm bushing will rock side to side and is a bit tippy, but hold it with a death grip. It will spin freely and can shift somewhat laterally without the tipping.

The bushing is 6mm for the MK 2 and is made for the 3mm drill.  Is this what you mean?

My Parf Guide MK 2 arrived last week from Axminster, but I didn't open it up until now because of the problems you are having with yours.  After I wiped all of the oil off of the components, I tried both of the 6mm bushings for drilling, the three 3mm pins with 6mm shoulder, and the 6mm joining screw.  Everything fit snuggly in the rail holes and I could not move them side to side at all.  With both rails joined, all of the holes line up as perfectly as I can see and everything is solid with no movement at all.


Made sure to try to tap the straight edges straight and what not since the pins are curved, again try hard mode engaged for sure.

This has me really confused.  What are you tapping to straighten and which pins are curved?

The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

Offline MikeGE

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #275 on: June 28, 2020, 07:57 PM »
The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

There is no bushing without a spigot in the MK 2 kit.  One has a short spigot, or shoulder, for use with one rail and the other has a longer spigot for use where two rails intersect.  If you have a bushing without a spigot, then this might be the problem.

Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 35
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #276 on: June 28, 2020, 07:59 PM »
The 6mm bushing, non-spigoted one is the one I am referring to. I haven't tested the joining screw, the spigoted bushing seems like a closer fit than the non.

I am trying to determine if the holes I have drilled are straight. After drilling a row of 3mm holes, I removed the parf stick and inserted the 3mm pins with 6mm shoulders into a variety of the holes and checked it with a straight edge

There is no bushing without a spigot in the MK 2 kit.  One has a short spigot, or shoulder, for use with one rail and the other has a longer spigot for use where two rails intersect.  If you have a bushing without a spigot, then this might be the problem.
Correct. I would be referring to the one with the shorter spigot


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Offline Hollatime

  • Posts: 35
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #277 on: August 04, 2020, 04:32 PM »
Following up on my earlier issues.

I'm pretty dissapointed with Axminster and the Parf Guide MKII. I reached out with my initial issues, and had to check in practically every day with CS for over 2 weeks until they finally shipped replacement parf sticks and the small spigot drill bushing. It was also sent  through a budget carrier/not the typical DHL awesomeness.

I am almost certain it is not user error at this point. I follow protocol as if I was disarming a nuclear warhead. I've tried different drills, I've legit made 10 or so attempts and none of them have worked out.

The only thing I could think of at this point aside from another set of bunk sticks is the orange 20mm jig doesnt lay entirely flat, but I assumed that was due to the dust port/hose. I use all 3 pins whenever possible to secure/locate the jig and hold it with my hand down as well.

Considering my prior experience with  Axminster's CS, I'm not really interested in waiting another 3 weeks just to again waste more time and materials on this system. The QC just isn't there I suppose, or I am just an absolute stone idiot.

Offline BarrySumpter

  • Posts: 96
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #278 on: September 01, 2020, 05:55 PM »
I've recently raised enough funds to invest and I am considering the Parf Guide Mark II System.

Any progress since last post?

I see there is a shipment due in 2 weeks.
41 coming in and 2 on back order.

Any suggestions to wait or not?

« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 07:15 PM by BarrySumpter »
May Yesterdays Tears Quench the Thirst for Tomorrows Revenge

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #279 on: September 02, 2020, 03:20 AM »
Hi Everyone

There are two videos that will help. The first is quite long but it gives the step by step instructions for building a tracksaw cutting station and includes me pointing out common errors that are the most likely cause of a disappointing result:



After that went up a number of viewers asked me to show the 5 cut test (also know as a 4 cut test if you have one good side at the start).



Peter

Offline Paulhoward

  • Posts: 5
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #280 on: February 25, 2021, 07:36 AM »
I recently got my Parf Guide Mark II system, and I have some issues and questions.

First off, it looks like one of the Parf sticks has hole spacing that is ever-so-slightly greater than the other. The error is such that over the 960mm from hole 0 to hole 10, one stick has holes that are around 0.10-0.15mm farther apart than the other one. Has anyone else encountered this before?

My grid is 15 wide by 7 high. When using the Parf sticks to make the "starter" set of 11x7 holes, it worked out OK. Next, I extended the grid to the right by adding 4 holes to the top row and 4 holes to the bottom row. Then I tried to connect the far-right top and bottom holes by pinning one of the Parf sticks to the top-right hole and bottom-right hole. Unfortunately, the 3mm holes I drilled in the table were slightly too far apart, and the pins wouldn't seat all the way. I think this is because the 3-4-5 triangle that was used to create the grid was slightly off, resulting in a grid that wasn't quite square.

I'm concerned that with the slight error of the holes, when I try to cut a right angle, the angle could be off by an amount that will cause problems when I try to do precise work. Is that a reasonable concern? I watched Peter Parfitt's video where he found that cuts on the workbench he made had an error of about 0.03 degrees per cut, which is very good.

Incidentally, the fact that I'm encountering fit problems when the error is so small is a testament to the overall precision of the Parf Guide system.

I have a few other questions that hopefully someone here can help answer. These first two relate to how close to perpendicular the holes will be.

  • How accurate can I expect the hole spacing to be on the underside of the panel?
  • For taller dogs like Super Dogs, how accurate can I expect them to be further away from the table?
  • The panel I'm using is MDO, based on the recommendation of someone from this forum. Unfortunately, it's slightly bowed so that if one end is pressed all the way down, the other end will stick up probably half an inch. Is unreasonable to expect an MDO panel to be much flatter than this?


Here are some pictures that show the misalignment of the holes.

With the fixing pin connecting both Parf sticks at hole 0, the longer drill guide seats easily all the way into hole 1.

(Attachment Link)

With the fixing pin still at 0, the drill guide fits tightly in hole 5. In this picture, it's tight enough that I'm able to lift both Parf sticks off the table with the friction.

(Attachment Link)

With the fixing pin still at 0, the drill guide won't go through both Parf sticks at hole 10.

(Attachment Link)


Using calipers going through both Parf sticks at hole 1, I measured a width to be 5.98mm.

(Attachment Link)

If I lift the calipers slightly so that it's engaging the hole in only one of the Parf sticks, the width is 6.00mm.

(Attachment Link)


At hole 10, going through both Parf sticks, the width is 5.86mm.

(Attachment Link)

At hole 10, lifting the calipers slightly so that it engages the hole in only one Parf stick, the width is 5.99mm.

(Attachment Link)

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #281 on: February 25, 2021, 12:24 PM »
@Paulhoward

Hi Paul

I am sorry that you are having difficulty. Please contact Axminster Customer Services with you problem:

cs@AxminsterTools.com

They may arrange for any suspect kit to be returned for their QA people to check.

Peter

Offline Paulhoward

  • Posts: 5
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #282 on: March 08, 2021, 10:24 AM »
Thanks Peter, I have reached out to Axmenister, and they will help Me with this. I am a Fan of Parf Products and the Axmenister Co.

Offline Wayne CW

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  • Wayne
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #283 on: April 13, 2021, 03:09 PM »
I have my Parf Guides coming from Axminster tomorrow and will have a opportunity to see if i can come up with an accurate MFT. Accuracy is seems to be like a dog spinning around trying catch his tail ... he just can't quite catch it. Some where someone stated that even CNC dog holes aren't perfectly round but close enough that your eye can't see it.

I wonder if i were to layout a grid by hand using the Pythagorean Theorem i could do it without any error whatsoever ... probably not 🤔 Thus i think that Peter Parfitt and Axminster made a bold move to put together this system so the rest of us could enjoy making our very own custom MFT tops made to our own specifications. No one else has endeavored to undertake a project like theirs except for a few router templates offered by a few manufacturers. It really is quite ingenious to say the least and I expect that as time goes on Peter will come up with ways to make it more "idiot proofed". Not trying to knock anyone because as i haven't started my top yet, i could be the idiot 😅 I will certainly do a bit of practice on some sacrificial surface first though to hone my Parf skills.

I do like that UJK fence Axminster has made for the MFT tables and as soon as they have them back in stock i will have to have one 😉
"There is always something new to learn and old age isn't an excuse to quit."

Offline Wayne CW

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  • Wayne
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #284 on: April 13, 2021, 08:50 PM »
When watching Peters videos on the Parf Guide system he was using the CXS to drill his holes with which probably was advantageous when drilling perpendicular holes with such a small foot print with the little guides. Because of the light weight of the drill and the "c" grip allowing the hand being place right over top of the drill in line with the hole and the Centrotec chuck adding to the stability it is probably of great help to being accurate. I don't have one of those little gems but i shall one day when they become available again in my domain. My drill is a "T" handle of course that offsets your hand and pressure from the vertical centre line and not really balanced for precision drilling.
"There is always something new to learn and old age isn't an excuse to quit."

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 327
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #285 on: April 14, 2021, 05:27 AM »
That is easy to fix. Just glue a bullseye level to your drill. Making sure it is accurately attached isn't that hard, I should think.

Offline Wayne CW

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #286 on: April 14, 2021, 11:25 AM »
I received my New Parf Guide directly from Axminster today. It was well packaged, all parts were present and in excellent condition, the rulers were flat and in perfect condition. I am very pleased thus far. 😃 The vacuum attachment was included and i ordered the revision dogs and a few parf dogs and the rail clips.

On another note i received my TSO connectors from Lee Valley and installed them between my two rails without a straight edge to guide them and after i secured them i did put a 4’ straight edge against the rails and they were bang on.

The sun is shining here today so all is good.
"There is always something new to learn and old age isn't an excuse to quit."

Offline AndrewG

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #287 on: May 05, 2021, 10:30 PM »
Hi all,
I picked up a PGS mk 1 second hand but it appears to be unused. I understand there were some issues with the earlier models so I was wondering if anyone can advise what I should be checking? I have checked the rulers and all the holes seem to line up perfectly. Is there anything else?

I'm going to order all my dogs etc from axminster soon and am holding off until I know the PGS is good to go as I may need to order spare parts to fix.

Thanks for your assistance!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #288 on: May 06, 2021, 02:26 AM »
Hi all,
I picked up a PGS mk 1 second hand but it appears to be unused. I understand there were some issues with the earlier models so I was wondering if anyone can advise what I should be checking? I have checked the rulers and all the holes seem to line up perfectly. Is there anything else?

I'm going to order all my dogs etc from axminster soon and am holding off until I know the PGS is good to go as I may need to order spare parts to fix.

Thanks for your assistance!

Hi @AndrewG

From the checks that you have done there should be no issues. The 3 mm pins may be a little tight in the rulers which is deliberate in order to improve accuracy. When you first use them you may have to twist them into the holes which then ensures a very good fit.

Check that the 20 mm cutter has not been damaged in any way. It should have a leading spike 3 mm in diameter and about 8 mm long.

I will PM my email address to you and will be available to offer assistance if required.

Peter