Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 70866 times)

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Offline Solly

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2019, 04:35 PM »
Looks like the Mark II is back in stock at TSO - but alas not shipping to Australia ;-(

Still showing as backorder at Axminster ...

Anyone know of another way to get one in Oz?

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2019, 04:43 PM »
Looks like the Mark II is back in stock at TSO - but alas not shipping to Australia ;-(

Still showing as backorder at Axminster ...

Anyone know of another way to get one in Oz?

I spoke to them a couple of days ago to check what is happening. When the Mark 2 PGS was launched they had estimated the demand for the first quarter. That initial stock sold out in a matter of days. They were then going flat out to try to keep up but it was an impossible task. Things were not helped by a hiccup in the raw material supply chain and with so many back orders they had to stop taking new orders. I understand that they are working some extra shifts and new stock will be available very soon. I know that they are a commercial organisation but I feel sorry for them as everything was going so well and they were overwhelmed by demand. It sounds like a nice state to be in but I can assure you that it is not quite what they were expecting. They have tried to balance the flow of stock to dealers outside the UK and to direct customers. Things should be back to normal within 7 days.

Peter

Offline Solly

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2019, 08:41 PM »
Great thanks for the update Peter, much appreciated  [thumbs up]

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2019, 08:45 PM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2019, 10:19 PM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike
TSO has the widest selection of AXMINSTER  UJK brand products in North America. No wonder that they see to it our customer base is supported.
If you didn't get in on our latest shipments today with your order, you may want to sign up to be notified and act promptly when you see availability.

One difference with the Parf Guide sold by TSO: we add a Stainless 10mm Clamping Collar for customer use in lieu of the standard Aluminum stop collar. This $ 10.00 item is quickly appreciated once you start to use the PGS.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Solly

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2019, 03:45 AM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike

Very pertinent question Mike, especially in the context of Peter's notes above - I hope burning the candle at both ends to meet demand isn't resulting in repeat manufacturing / quality control concerns ... hopefully Peter and/or Hans can put our minds to rest.

Solly

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2019, 08:59 AM »
to all: the concern with the Parf Stick irregularities were traced to a supplier. Axminster told us they have brought this operation in house to have control over the operations. That is the reason they are behind on deliveries - replacing non-conforming product in the field plus starting up and ramping production of the involved parts in house./

In the end you can rest assured that this issue has top managements attention. Probably never going to be an issue again.

The result is worth the wait.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2019, 07:51 PM »
I have been lurking on this forum for a bit now. I am interested in the PARF Guide mark II system.

I had a question about compatible bench dogs.

I am aware that lee valley has a couple of bench dogs which have a lip and no chamfer. The UJK has a guide pup and a guide dog with a chamfer.

If I go make a table top with 20 mm holes which dont have a chamfer would I still be able to the UJK guide pup and guide dogs? Will my track saw register properly or am I better off using the less valley dogs.?




Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2019, 08:21 PM »
@jayshahu – you need not let the Chamfer issue concern you. Here’s why:
If your Dogs don’t have a Chamfer – nothing to worry about.
If your UJK Dogs have a Chamfer: nothing to worry about either because you can buy AXMINSTER / UJK’s Chamfer Tool – modest cost and very effective and easy to use.
Whether your benchtop has chamfered 20mm holes or non-chamfered has no other effect. Think of the Chamfer as an option which does not preclude using any style of Dog
ULTIMATE Tool in Burnaby BC carry our line of Dogs in two tolerance versions: Standard and CF-Dogs = Close Fit Dogs which are the identical diameter and tolerance as the UJK Parf Dogs. You can tell our Dogs apart because they have a set of Double Grooves to make it easier to extract them 😊

Enjoy the Mark 2 – worth the wait
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2019, 11:03 PM »
Thanks. I will check out ultimate tools

@jayshahu – you need not let the Chamfer issue concern you. Here’s why:
If your Dogs don’t have a Chamfer – nothing to worry about.
If your UJK Dogs have a Chamfer: nothing to worry about either because you can buy AXMINSTER / UJK’s Chamfer Tool – modest cost and very effective and easy to use.
Whether your benchtop has chamfered 20mm holes or non-chamfered has no other effect. Think of the Chamfer as an option which does not preclude using any style of Dog
ULTIMATE Tool in Burnaby BC carry our line of Dogs in two tolerance versions: Standard and CF-Dogs = Close Fit Dogs which are the identical diameter and tolerance as the UJK Parf Dogs. You can tell our Dogs apart because they have a set of Double Grooves to make it easier to extract them 😊

Enjoy the Mark 2 – worth the wait
Hans

Offline Bernmc

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2019, 03:13 AM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2019, 09:33 AM »
I chamfer all the dog holes in all my tops, as I like the chamfered dogs but, also it seems to keep edge damage to the holes at a minimum.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2019, 10:50 AM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Couple weekends ago I did the same thing - rounded over 60 slots and chamfered about 250 holes (top & bottom). Used a dust mask and did this outside even though it was pretty cold out. I used a small cordless handheld router for the chamfers.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2019, 12:30 PM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Couple weekends ago I did the same thing - rounded over 60 slots and chamfered about 250 holes (top & bottom). Used a dust mask and did this outside even though it was pretty cold out. I used a small cordless handheld router for the chamfers.

Yes same here, I use a 1/4” palm router and chamfer/bevel cutter.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2019, 09:29 AM »
I had my original work table CNC'd because I had a few projects and got tired waiting on the MK2 to be back in stock. This is my first use of an MFT type table and I already have other ideas for special purpose tops requiring dog holes. So when I found the MK2 back in stock I ordered one at Axminister on Monday and received it Thursday (I'm in the Chicago area). I was somewhat skeptical of the cost but once you have one in your hand you will think it's a bargain. The rules are perfect twins. I would recommend this jig to anyone.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2019, 11:42 AM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2019, 12:15 PM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if Axminster monitor the FOG so I will pass this on to them.

I am sorry that your original Parf Sticks were faulty - a problem that they have narrowed down to one batch of I think 20, probably when someone was finishing up for the weekend !

Peter

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #77 on: March 19, 2019, 12:38 PM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if Axminster monitor the FOG so I will pass this on to them.

I am sorry that your original Parf Sticks were faulty - a problem that they have narrowed down to one batch of I think 20, probably when someone was finishing up for the weekend !

Peter

Thanks Peter, appreciate you passing it along. I'm just glad that @wch noticed the problem originally and posted it here. I don't know what the end result would have been (i.e. how much deviation would have actually been introduced) but more accuracy is always better.

As a side note, it's been interesting to watch as companies like Axminster, Woodpeckers & TSO have gone thru the growing pains ramping up production of precision tools. During my limited foray into it with the Rip Dogs I ran into a couple of issues that required rework, it can be very time consuming especially for a dabbler like myself.  All 3 of the companies mentioned above are to me the gold-standard for how to deal with those challenges.

Cheers!

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #78 on: March 19, 2019, 05:19 PM »
Another somewhat disappointed customer.

When I received my MK2 everything looked good after a quick visual inspection. I had time to check the rules a little closer and think I too have an issue  [mad] even though I waited for rule issues to be flushed out.

Got somewhat specious when I took the plastic sleeves off the rules. Rules had many fingerprints and grease/goop marks on them. The UJK markings don't look the same so I'm wondering if I have a mix new/old rules (photos below).

My 96mm spaced holes if pinned at the zero hole will accept the long shoulder drill guide easily on most and with a twist of the guide on the others. The 32mm holes are similar to the 96mm. My issue is with the 48mm spaced holes. I couldn't even get the pin on the drill guide to go in. Upon further inspection the 48mm spacing holes in one of my rules are undersized!

Rule on bottom is the one with the issue - does it look like old stock? (look at last image - looks like I received two old stock)

Have emailed Axminister.

What bothers me is if they did indeed invest in expensive measuring devices why do they fail somewhat simple functional test performer by customers.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 05:37 PM by Mike Goetzke »

Offline Solly

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2019, 05:35 PM »
Definitely looks like you have two "old" ones there Mike going by wch's post above in this thread.

I was just about to order as the Mark II's have just come back into stock today, but if you just received those, then I will be asking for them to be checked before they go out!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 05:51 PM by Solly »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2019, 01:54 PM »
Reading through this thread from top to bottom, there appears to be some conflicting information on what created the problem and how many pieces may have the problem.

I have one stick that’s as good as I can measure. The other five pieces each have the alternating error pattern to different extents. That’s twenty minus five, or fifteen for everyone else.

It does seem odd to me that the expensive tools at Axminster do not detect a problem the can be measured with inexpensive dial calipers. Still more curious is the root cause.

A great tool, but plagued with a problem.

If you haven't already, I would suggest that you reach out to Axminster.  They are a class act from what I have read and I can't imagine that they wouldn't want to make things right.

Peter

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2019, 03:10 PM »
TSO's customers have only reported an occasional missing small part with the MARK 2. We solved that by stocking small parts - just in case.
No other Mark 2 problems.
For TSO customers: we have your back and AXMINSTER supports us very well.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2019, 09:33 AM »
Another somewhat disappointed customer.

When I received my MK2 everything looked good after a quick visual inspection. I had time to check the rules a little closer and think I too have an issue  [mad] even though I waited for rule issues to be flushed out.

Got somewhat specious when I took the plastic sleeves off the rules. Rules had many fingerprints and grease/goop marks on them. The UJK markings don't look the same so I'm wondering if I have a mix new/old rules (photos below).

My 96mm spaced holes if pinned at the zero hole will accept the long shoulder drill guide easily on most and with a twist of the guide on the others. The 32mm holes are similar to the 96mm. My issue is with the 48mm spaced holes. I couldn't even get the pin on the drill guide to go in. Upon further inspection the 48mm spacing holes in one of my rules are undersized!

Rule on bottom is the one with the issue - does it look like old stock? (look at last image - looks like I received two old stock)

Have emailed Axminister.

What bothers me is if they did indeed invest in expensive measuring devices why do they fail somewhat simple functional test performer by customers.

UPDATE:

I spend a little more time looking at my rules and here is an update to my post above:

1) After thinking about the greasy fingerprints on my rules as received it's probably a good thing - they must be checking them.

2) I agree with Peter Parfitt that it is very difficult to measure the hole sizing or spacing using a device like a digital calipers. A functional test is probably best as described earlier in this post. Lock hole "0" and try to stick the drill guide with the long pin through the two rules on a flat surface.

3) Using a functional test I can get the drill guide to fit in all but one set of holes on my two rules.

4) My bad hole is the last 48mm spacing hole in only one of the rules. Looking with magnifiers I was a little surprised to see that it looks like the holes are punched. Think if I chase this hole with a 6mm drill I will be fine.

Mike

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2019, 02:00 PM »
@Mike Goetzke - AXMINSTER senior management has been in touch with us about your observations. I know you have spoken with their customer service staff and they are shipping a new pair of Parf Sticks to you - in the best AXMINSTER Customer Service tradition.

We can all appreciate the difficulties during roll-out of a very popular product. Customer demand for product applying pressure - like in your case. And the manufacturer working hard to sort out what needs improving at the same time. Obviously a lot of learning going on in the supply chain.

We stand ready to help anyone with any AXMINSTER customer service issues.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2019, 03:05 PM »
@Mike Goetzke - AXMINSTER senior management has been in touch with us about your observations. I know you have spoken with their customer service staff and they are shipping a new pair of Parf Sticks to you - in the best AXMINSTER Customer Service tradition.

We can all appreciate the difficulties during roll-out of a very popular product. Customer demand for product applying pressure - like in your case. And the manufacturer working hard to sort out what needs improving at the same time. Obviously a lot of learning going on in the supply chain.

We stand ready to help anyone with any AXMINSTER customer service issues.

Hans

@TSO Products

Hans - I called them early this morning to tell them I was willing to re-drill my undersized hole if it was OK with them but they were busy and I couldn't stay on hold any longer. Then an hour later I get a note that they inspected/sent out another set of rules. So I'm taken care of either way.

Mike

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #85 on: March 22, 2019, 10:17 AM »
2) I agree with Peter Parfitt that it is very difficult to measure the hole sizing or spacing using a device like a digital calipers. A functional test is probably best as described earlier in this post. Lock hole "0" and try to stick the drill guide with the long pin through the two rules on a flat surface.

Agreed . . . it is very difficult to measure the distance accurately, but it is not difficult to detect that there’s a difference in the distance between adjacent hole pairs - even with a dial caliper.

The problem with using the functional test as described is that the distance between adjacent holes is in error on both sticks, but they will likely line up because the error has a pattern that is consistent across all other sticks.

Suggestion : Put a pin through hole zero on the first stick and hole one on the second stick, then check the other holes. I will do this tonight with my six Parf MK II sticks - one of which seems to be good.

@box185

This was a good suggestion. I tried this last night and was able to get the drill guide through both rules. Besides my one 48mm offset hole being undersize (which I plan to remedy this weekend) my rules seem to be perfect!

Mike

Offline gnlman

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #86 on: March 22, 2019, 03:07 PM »
Well I rec'd my second Mark 11 system after ruler issues with my first set....checked the rulers and they are better, but still an issue. As I did before, I installed the threaded pin thru hole one on both rulers stacked on each other and used the longer shoulder guide bushing to push thru both rulers. All was good until I reached hole 9..it was OK, but all holes after that were visually off....I could get the guide bushing to go thru the offset holes, but only after some manipulation...seems one of my rulers is not straight at one end..I could see this but put a straight edge on it and it seems starting around hole 9 the one ruler is not straight...I would have been happy to have some fingermarks on the rulers if it meant they were checked before they reshipped my the entire kit again. I've emailed them and I'm sure they will fix the issue. Here is a pic of the rulers in case anyone else needs to check their own. I realise this is not off by much, but can't help but think I will not get accurate results at say a 90 degree part of the triangle.
Greg


Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2019, 04:57 PM »
@gnlman

Sorry to hear your rules still seem to be off. As I mentioned above, looks like the holes are punched in the rule. If they do this operation for all holes at once I don't think the straightness of the rule is important.

When you insert the drill guide with the long pin try holding the rules against the flat surface and give a slight twist to it. See if they seem to line up better this way.

Mike

Offline gnlman

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #88 on: March 22, 2019, 05:05 PM »
Hi Mike. Yes did that already. Gave the long shoulder drill guide a bit of a spin which helps and makes sense...didn't work from hole 10 forward. I had to press on the side of one of the rulers to get the drill guide in. Once I did that it was apparent visually that the holes below 9 were not lining up anymore. It seems like a small thing, but I don't think it will be as accurate as I'd like to see it...and I thought only wood moved once you cut it...lol
Greg

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #89 on: March 23, 2019, 11:09 AM »
Hi Mike. Yes did that already. Gave the long shoulder drill guide a bit of a spin which helps and makes sense...didn't work from hole 10 forward. I had to press on the side of one of the rulers to get the drill guide in. Once I did that it was apparent visually that the holes below 9 were not lining up anymore. It seems like a small thing, but I don't think it will be as accurate as I'd like to see it...and I thought only wood moved once you cut it...lol
Greg

Oh man, that sure looks like sloppy manufacturing (outsourced to China?). I would have expected better from this company. I hope you get a replacement  that  is better than that piece.

Cheers,
Peter
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 11:12 AM by Peter Durand »