Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 72886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Morse

  • Posts: 2
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2019, 04:02 PM »
I see I attached same image twice I will try again with first image

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2019, 11:32 PM »
Anyone with rulers which are faulty should contact Axminster Customer Services. But do make a top with the system and check that it works as a very minor variation between a pair of rulers may not be an issue.

Always contact Axminster Customer Services first if you have any problems. They manufacture and distribute the kit and I am unable to help other than provide the guidance that I have given above.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2019, 10:50 AM »
Excellent and many thanks for the kind words.

Peter

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 80
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2019, 10:44 PM »
Had a similar mail from Axminster today- They’re putting a new set of rulers in an order I have waiting for dispatch.

Very happy with their service - things go wrong occasionally, and it’s the way a company deals with an error that really sets the good ones apart.

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 113
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2019, 12:39 AM »
I’m very happy to see a great resolution on this. Peter, you have an amazing mind. Thank you for your work and the grace with which you handle yourself.

Offline casper

  • Posts: 22
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2019, 08:13 AM »
I have just been told by email that the Mk2 system will be available for retail sale until next spring which seems rather vague.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2019, 08:37 AM »
I have just been told by email that the Mk2 system will be available for retail sale until next spring which seems rather vague.

I suspect that bulk export to dealers will only come when Axminster can gear up to the high demand. They have sold out 2 or 3 times since the launch and despite this the demand for the original system remains high.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2019, 01:01 AM »
Hi Paul

You need to report this to Axminster. I cannot help you and they are not here on the FOG.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2019, 08:10 AM »
@box185

I understand.

I have asked Axminster to sort this out.

Peter

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2019, 12:46 AM »
Axminster sent me another set of replacement Parf sticks (my third pair now), which they said were checked for accuracy. Like box185's replacements, there was one "old-style" and one "new-style" ruler in the package. The old-style ruler has the logo embossed (imprinted) in the surface, while the new-style ruler has the logo raised on the surface.

New (raised logo) above, old (embossed logo) below:
292450-0

These are the spacings I measured, in mm:

Old-styleNew-style
89.9290.05
90.0189.99
89.9790.02
90.0289.98
89.9390.03
90.0389.99
89.9490.03
90.0289.97
89.9290.03
90.0689.94

According to my measurements, the new-style ruler has more consistent hole spacing than the old one.

When I stacked the on top of each other and connected them using the fixing pin at hole 0, and found that for some hole position, the longer drill guide would go through both sticks easily, for some, it went through but was a bit tight, and for some, it would not go through both.

292452-1

292454-2

I decided to calculate the overall positioning of of the holes, assuming that each hole is exactly 6.00mm in diameter, and that my measurements are accurate. (These assumptions may not be exactly true, but later on we'll see that they are still useful.) I then calculated the difference of the hole positions in the old and new ruler.

Old-styleNew-styleCumulative oldCumulative newDifference
89.9290.0595.9296.05-0.13
90.0189.99191.93192.04-0.11
89.9790.02287.9288.06-0.16
90.0289.98383.92384.04-0.12
89.9390.03479.85480.07-0.22
90.0389.99575.88576.06-0.18
89.9490.03671.82672.09-0.27
90.0289.97767.84768.06-0.22
89.9290.03863.76864.09-0.33
90.0689.94959.82960.03-0.21

The smallest difference was .11mm, and the largest was 0.33mm. I found that for the holes that were <.15mm apart, the drill guide went relatively easily through both holes. For the holes that were around .20mm apart, the drill guide would go through both holes, but it required a bit of force. For the two holes that were .27mm and .33mm apart, the drill guide would not go through both holes. (Note that with the fixing pin in place in hole 0 of both rulers, there was a little play, so the rulers could move a tiny bit.) So even if the numbers aren't exactly correct due to measurement error, they do correspond with the behavior of the drill guide.

All this said, I don't think that this necessarily problematic for getting good 90-degree cuts. As I mentioned earlier, I had very good results with the four-cut test on my second work surface, which was made with my previous set of rulers that had more error. To maximize consistency, I think it is probably a good idea to use one ruler to drill all of the holes, and use the other ruler only to form the hypotenuse of the 3-4-5 triangle. When I made my second work surface, I did this without really thinking about it, and looking back on it I think it probably helped with the accuracy of the final result.

Overall, I think the design of the system is brilliant; I just wish I had gotten more accurately-made rulers from the beginning.

A note regarding the accuracy of the digital calipers I have: I agree that in general, one can't expect inexpensive measuring devices to have good accuracy, but I've been pleasantly surprised by these. When measuring in inches, they record a resolution of 0.0005 inches. When measuring in mm, they record a resolution of 0.01mm. I have a pair of 1-2-3 blocks, and when set to inch mode, this caliper says that, for both of them, all three dimensions are within .0005 of the inch of expected. Now, it's possible that the 1-2-3 blocks and the calipers have manufacturing and measurement error that cancel out, but a much simpler theory is that the blocks and calipers are very accurate. Other objects I've measured also result in readings that seem to be very accurate. The reviews I've seen for these cheap digital calipers and similar ones agree that they are surprisingly good.

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 80
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2019, 07:01 PM »
I finally got to play with my replacement parf stick yesterday

292522-0

It's not that obvious in the photo, but the original stick on the far left is a distinctly different colour to the other three, and it's this stick that is inaccurate. It's more tarnished than the others.
All three other sticks - the two replacements and one of my originals - appear to be accurate. At least all the holes line up, and can be anchored together by the various pins and locking wotsits in the kit.

Milled half of my bench (it does take a long time to do something like a full-size Paulk worktop), and did a few bench dog/track saw square cuts, and they are perfect. Made me pretty happy  [big grin]

292524-1

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 760
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2019, 09:52 PM »
@Bernmc - Looking at your first picture, maybe it's just the camera/angle, but, some of the holes seem to be deformed (not crisp/sharp)?

Where did you get that small dust collection hood?

I was ready to buy one of these for making three 32" x 48" tops but after reading through this thread I'm worried about the quality of the components, time to bore all my holes, and it's not in stock (likely due to the quality issues).

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6741
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 10:07 PM »
@Peter Parfitt

Anyone with rulers which are faulty should contact Axminster Customer Services. But do make a top with the system and check that it works as a very minor variation between a pair of rulers may not be an issue.

Always contact Axminster Customer Services first if you have any problems. They manufacture and distribute the kit and I am unable to help other than provide the guidance that I have given above.

Peter

Peter,

I think you need a hotdog with lots of mustard

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 80
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2019, 12:11 AM »
@Bernmc - Looking at your first picture, maybe it's just the camera/angle, but, some of the holes seem to be deformed (not crisp/sharp)?

Where did you get that small dust collection hood?

I was ready to buy one of these for making three 32" x 48" tops but after reading through this thread I'm worried about the quality of the components, time to bore all my holes, and it's not in stock (likely due to the quality issues).

Mike, it's the camera angle. They are all sharper than a sharp thing on a sharp day.

I 3D-printed the dust collection hood - it works really well (PETG on a Prusa i3 Mk3): https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2952709 - 'dust' collection is essential for this process as the special forstner bit peels the MDF apart in a paper-like ribbon which quickly clogs the jig if not removed.

I believe the quality issues have been resolved and you can buy with confidence - the new parf sticks have addressed the issue I originally had. The rest of the system is fantastically well-machined. In fact, tolerances are so tight that I occasionally need to go back and introduce a bit of wobbly in the guide holes because the pins are so tight. Similarly , the dogs are a very secure fit in the finished product. And when I did have the issue originally, Axminster sorted it out without fuss.

It definitely takes time, but I think that aside from a CNC'd top, it's the most accurate way to mill something like this. I did have a pop at using a 20mm router bit, and while you might get everything square with a considerable amount of care, the holes are just too sloppy for standard bench dogs.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1288
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2019, 09:32 AM »
@Mike Goetzke

I got mine from YellowBoxshed, price is low and shipping was good. But the best is it fit like a glove on the Parf guide. i'll post a photo of mine later tonight. I also ordered a few goodies to work with MFT tops and I'm very impressed by the quality.



« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 08:47 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 55
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2019, 06:47 PM »
If you have a 3D Printer https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2952709

Works well

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30 PM »
@Mario Turcot @ Mike Goetzke @jasen and All:
Not to discourage the Makers and their 3D Printers, but the rest of us may want to consider what $34.95 from  TSO’s Minnesota warehouse buys you.

Peter Parfitt explains it best:
                   https://tsoproducts.com/tools-equipment/ujk-technology-parf-dust-port/
   
This seriously tooled, injection molded, snaps-on and stays-put Parf Dust Port from Axminster is part of the largest selection of AXMINSTER and UJK Brand products stocked in the US at TSOproducts.com
Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 55
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2019, 08:47 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1288
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2019, 08:54 PM »
@Mario Turcot @ Mike Goetzke @jasen and All:
Not to discourage the Makers and their 3D Printers, but the rest of us may want to consider what $34.95 from  TSO’s Minnesota warehouse buys you.

Peter Parfitt explains it best:
                   https://tsoproducts.com/tools-equipment/ujk-technology-parf-dust-port/
   
This seriously tooled, injection molded, snaps-on and stays-put Parf Dust Port from Axminster is part of the largest selection of AXMINSTER and UJK Brand products stocked in the US at TSOproducts.com
Hans and Eric

Unfortunately the Axminster dust hood was not available at the time I ordered the Parf Guide from TSO Products.  [crying]
Mario

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1288
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2019, 09:04 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

I hear you about postage fees. The order I did with Yellowboxshed came at a total of 96$ and the postage was 14.50$ I call this extremely fair. Personally I tried several times to order from Woodpecker Tools. Just last week they had a router bit I just received from Toolstoday, Toolstoday charged me 26$ for shipping, there was 2 bits. Woodpecker was charging me 37$ for a single bit and the bit was 35$  [eek]


Mario

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2885
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2019, 09:15 PM »
Cross shipping costs have prevented me from buying more tools or things from the US. Recently, I bought some magazines on eBay and had them shipped to a US address free; to a Canadian location? The shipping cost would be five times the total cost of the magazines!

Another reason why I shop mostly at Lee Valley for woodworking tools, and any vendor whose products are not carried by Lee Valley, or any local tool vendors in Canada seldom gets my business.

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2019, 09:17 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

Non-US woodworkers:
TSO hears you. Until we developed capable Dealers in key geographic areas we subsidized international shipping so we know from our own pocketbook how expensive that is [sad].

Since then we have established  capable stocking dealers in Australia and New Zealand CARBATEC, in Europe AXMINSTER and GereedschapPro plus South Africa's BPM TOOLCRAFT and HARDWARE CENTRE with ULTIMATE TOOLS in Canada our very first International Dealer.

We thank them all for offering our customers a choice.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2019, 04:37 AM »
After reading this thread I checked my Parf sticks and they seem spot on, mine is a Mk 2 system. Whenever I make a top of any type with the system, I always check for square cutting etc, and from the many I’ve made so far, all seems fine and on par with my MFT/3.
Hopefully any faulty versions of the systems are few and far between.

I also just want to reassure anybody thinking of buying these systems, or anything else from Axminster Tools. Apart from a possible inconvenience if something is damaged, not up to standard, or any other cause for disappointment, rest assured Axminster will sort it out and make sure you are happy.
Without going into detail, I use many suppliers and buy tools from many companies, and without doubt, Axminster have the best customer service, that I have personally ever experienced. That alone means a lot too me.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4487
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2019, 07:17 AM »
After reading this thread I checked my Parf sticks and they seem spot on, mine is a Mk 2 system. Whenever I make a top of any type with the system, I always check for square cutting etc, and from the many I’ve made so far, all seems fine and on par with my MFT/3.
Hopefully any faulty versions of the systems are few and far between.

I also just want to reassure anybody thinking of buying these systems, or anything else from Axminster Tools. Apart from a possible inconvenience if something is damaged, not up to standard, or any other cause for disappointment, rest assured Axminster will sort it out and make sure you are happy.
Without going into detail, I use many suppliers and buy tools from many companies, and without doubt, Axminster have the best customer service, that I have personally ever experienced. That alone means a lot too me.

I absolutely agree and it was one of the major factors that convinced me that they should take on my Parf (R) products.

Peter

Offline Euclid

  • Posts: 248
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2019, 08:36 AM »
Whilst we are on the subject of Axminster (rather than specifically the ‘PGS’)...

Although I’d bought from Axminster by mail order (online) a number of times in the past (with considerable satisfaction - well, total satisfaction to be honest), I’d never visited one of their stores.
Having now done that (my “local” one, in Kent - not the easiest of journeys) I’ve been back several times because it is just a nice place to go... calm and spacious, loads of kit to look at and accessories to browse, and good relaxed atmosphere. The staff seem to be endlessly patient and helpful, knowledgeable and enthusiastic, with no pressure to buy and leave you alone until you want help. Odd items that have been out-of-stock, they have sent on to me free of delivery charges.

My only real “complaint” is that on each visit I’ve bought (and spent) much more than I intended when I left home...!

Sorry if all of that sounds like a “shill” or covert marketing for them, but it isn’t... I just feel they deserve a  public “thumbs up”. Yes, some of the stuff (eg. Some Festool items, but not all) can be found a little bit cheaper elsewhere, but overall ther prices seem very fair and sometimes very good; I’m happy to support, when I can, a business that provides both good service online and an extremely good “bricks-and-mortar” presence.

I’ve been buying quite a bit of “UJK” stuff lately and am very pleased with the quality and the finish; though I don’t (yet) have a Parf Guide System...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 08:40 AM by Euclid »

Offline bill@gnimelf.net

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2019, 11:51 AM »
I am in need of a new top for my MFT/1080 and the cost of a new top is about equal to the MK2 and of course with the MK2 I can do many things.

So is all this issue of MK2 quality sorted such that getting a properly machined and packaged version more likely than not?

Thx Bill

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2019, 12:11 PM »
I am in need of a new top for my MFT/1080 and the cost of a new top is about equal to the MK2 and of course with the MK2 I can do many things.

So is all this issue of MK2 quality sorted such that getting a properly machined and packaged version more likely than not?

Thx Bill
@Bill Fleming - based on the answer I received earlier this week from a senior technical manager at AXMINSTER the answer is an unqualified YES.

TSO's stock replenishment order from AXMINSTER with PGS Mark 2 was ready to ship to us by airfreight. Sign up here to be notified when PGS Mark 2 is back in stock here in the US:

            https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/


Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline bill@gnimelf.net

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Great news, signed up to be notified on your site!

Thx Bill

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 760
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2019, 09:54 AM »
Talked to Axminster this morning and they say don’t expect availability until mid-March! I need to look for CNC supplier for my three new tops.

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2019, 11:13 AM »
Talked to Axminster this morning and they say don’t expect availability until mid-March! I need to look for CNC supplier for my three new tops.

Mike, - we just received confirmation that our AXMINSTER shipment has shipped airfreight to TSO's Minnesota warehouse. Should be available to ship out to our customers some time next week. automatic notifications will go out to all who have signed up on our website:

         https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA