Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 70683 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2019, 09:25 AM »
@jkc_WA

Glad you had good luck with your rules.

I have had small issues with the hole finishing requiring some cleanup of the bore and chamfer so I looked closely at your first & last photos of post #169. Sure looks like they are doing something to remove the rolled over material I had at the chamfers on mine. If you look around holes 9, 32, and 48 on these photos almost looks like the cleanup tool was a little off center. The chamfer footprint looks oblong - doesn't seem to be from an optical illusion. This tells me they are possibly cleaning up the chamfers. I'm not in front of your rules but that mark around hole #2 almost looks like a mis-hit of the chamfer cleanup tool (too perfectly circular in shape to do by hand)?

Mike

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2019, 09:39 AM »
@Mike Goetzke good pick up, it does indeed look like all of the holes in jkc_wa's photos are consistently off centre and elongated in the north east direction and a deeper chamfer depth.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5265
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2019, 09:51 AM »
@jkc_WA  looking at your last photo showing the mismatch of the scales, looks like there is an extra increment in the lower scale over the course of just 80 mm. Could you stand the upper rule on edge on top of the lower to avoid parallax error?

If the rules are matched at the first increment how far off are they at the far end?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 11:44 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2019, 02:08 PM »
I thought the holes were oblong as well and wondered about cleanup. It really is hard to tell, even when holding them, but if you feel along them it is clear that the holes are not oblong. The discoloration that makes them appear longer is the remains of a circle that appears to have been printed or painted on the rules prior to machining them. The holes are indeed smooth and round, and there are no burrs or rolled edges. Very tidy.

I'm not at home now but will look at the scales and report back re: Michael Kellough's question later.

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #154 on: May 02, 2019, 06:27 PM »
I finally got a hold of my PARF Guide Mark 2 and tested the rulers for alignment and holes being co linear.

1) There was an alignment problem and the holes were  not co linear.

I sent an email to Axminster and they sent me  new set of rulers which are co linear and aligned with each other

But now I discovered a new problem. My 20 mm cutter has a bent shaft. When I tried to drill a 20 mm hole the entire work piece vibrates.

Does anyone has this problem?




Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #155 on: May 02, 2019, 07:08 PM »
- as you may know TSO has sold a great many Parf Guides, Original and Mark 2. We have had ZERO calls on Dill Bit vibration due to bent shaft or any other reason,
Have you isolated the problem to a bent shaft? - if so request a replacement from your dealer.
If the shaft is straight and the tip does not show measurable run-out, you might take another look at your CentroTec engagement with your Drill quick-disconnect chuck. It is possible to insert the bit only partially into the FESTOOL Chuck without it being obvious - thus causing wobble and vibration.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #156 on: May 02, 2019, 08:01 PM »
Yes. Pls see the attached picture. The shank which goes into the chuck is bent . It is quite a bit off at the very top of the shank. Depending on how far you put the shank into the chuck the wobble becomes pronounced or subdued.

Axminster was very prompt in fixing the rulers. I have reached out to them already for the bit .

Will update once I hear back from them.

Offline ColossusX

  • Posts: 230
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2019, 08:28 PM »
Any idea when TSO or Axminster will get the Mk 2 back in stock?

Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #158 on: May 08, 2019, 10:29 AM »
Just got finished drilling about 200 holes (x2 if you count the 3mm) over the last 2 days... system works very well but darn I wish I had a Festool drill with removable chuck.

The stop collar shipping on mark 2 is still garbage. It stripped and fell off about 2/3 of the way through and I just had to keep the bit attached in my drill chick.

@TSO Products I bought from you guys but think you guys should go back to including your own steel stop collar if possible like you did with mark 1. The one included in aluminum is not durable at all over more than 1 MFT table worth of holes. The rest of the kit is solid though.

I haven’t tested the layout everywhere but checked a few spots across the table and seems good. There was only one column I found with a small rocking between 3 dogs. It wasn’t more than 1mm but I didn’t break out the deeer gauges to check. Other columns seemed fine so not sure what happened with that column but it’s not one I plan to use for cross cutting anyway. Will do more testing next weekend.

Overall very happy though.


Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #159 on: May 08, 2019, 10:42 AM »
Quote:
@TSO Products I bought from you guys but think you guys should go back to including your own steel stop collar if possible like you did with mark 1. The one included in aluminum is not durable at all over more than 1 MFT table worth of holes. The rest of the kit is solid though.

@Jruks – we really appreciate your comments about the Stop Collar. The Clamping Collar we have added for a time while AXMINSTER was still supplying the steel set screw version solved the problem. The cost to us was painfully high for two reasons: the high cost of supplying a US made Stainless Steel Clamping Collar, inbound shipping, receiving, then picking and opening the Parf Guide tubes to include the Clamping collar and an explanatory notice all added up. Before we could even overpack the PGS and return it to the warehouse shelf.
You can see how labor- and  transaction cost-intensive some harmless looking items actually turn out to be.
I will be in England later this month and meet with Axminster. I will take this matter up with them again. – thanks for your feedback!
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Jruks

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #160 on: May 08, 2019, 10:53 AM »
Totally get it. You guys went above and beyond on that one. Obviously the ideal would be for Axminster to include a better quality stop in the first place :).

Quote:
@TSO Products I bought from you guys but think you guys should go back to including your own steel stop collar if possible like you did with mark 1. The one included in aluminum is not durable at all over more than 1 MFT table worth of holes. The rest of the kit is solid though.

@Jruks – we really appreciate your comments about the Stop Collar. The Clamping Collar we have added for a time while AXMINSTER was still supplying the steel set screw version solved the problem. The cost to us was painfully high for two reasons: the high cost of supplying a US made Stainless Steel Clamping Collar, inbound shipping, receiving, then picking and opening the Parf Guide tubes to include the Clamping collar and an explanatory notice all added up. Before we could even overpack the PGS and return it to the warehouse shelf.
You can see how labor- and  transaction cost-intensive some harmless looking items actually turn out to be.
I will be in England later this month and meet with Axminster. I will take this matter up with them again. – thanks for your feedback!
Hans

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #161 on: May 08, 2019, 11:58 AM »
Any idea when TSO or Axminster will get the Mk 2 back in stock?

@ColossusX  - According to Axminster they will be shipping our order next week. May 13 - 17. We are expecting to be able to deliver to customers May 24th.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline ColossusX

  • Posts: 230
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #162 on: May 08, 2019, 11:38 PM »
Excellent.  Hope to place an order soon. 

Offline mxn

  • Posts: 1
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2019, 04:05 AM »
Hello everybody,

I'm a quiet reader for some time now, this is my first post in this nice community. English is not my first language, but I think you get the point of what I'm trying to share  [wink].

I recently ordered the PGS Mk II after some trial and finally realizing I would not get the precision I was looking for with other methods (except a CNC which was not an option). I ordered from Axminster UK and got the package in under one week (UK to Germany). The sticks came with a silk print and unfortunately suffered from the issues some of you already mentioned: The sticks had a little curve showing a gap when placed side by side, when fixed in hole 1 and 6 the ends around hole 10 overlapped by about 0,5 mm and so on... A major problem I see with the line of holes not being parallel to the ruler's edge is that I can't get the first set of holes parallel to the benchtop's edge easily by positioning the ruler's edge - even if the hole would be perfectly in line...
I contacted the Axminster CS and got a quick and nice reply, a set of sticks that had been checked for accuracy had been shipped out to me free of charge.
The second set was indeed accurate, the holes seemed a little tight and I had to use quite some force to bring in the drill guide for the first times but for me that's ok and acceptable due to the tight tolerances. The second set had the embossed Logo in it. As far as I know from what I read, these should be the old ones, right? I could imagine that there's something wrong with the production line of the "new" sets, maybe that could even be the reason for the major stores being out of stock at the moment. However, I'm pleased with the result I now get with this set and do not regret buying it and - by the way - supporting Mr. Parfitt as the genius inventor!  [wink]
Another little thing I saw when I thought about a storing solution: The 25 mm head of the parf dogs fit the first gap under the drill guide bushing in the orange block but do not fit the second gap. Can anybody confirm this with his / her set?

Cheers, Max


Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #164 on: May 11, 2019, 11:48 AM »
@mxn Your rules appear to me to be the new ones.

"The 25 mm head of the parf dogs fit the first gap under the drill guide bushing in the orange block but do not fit the second gap. Can anybody confirm this with his / her set?"  Mine is like this too.

Mike

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 437
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #165 on: May 11, 2019, 09:09 PM »
Hans,

Would this stainless collar from Grainger work for those of us that didn't get in on the kits y'all sold with the updated collar?

https://www.grainger.com/product/RULAND-MANUFACTURING-316-Stainless-Steel-Shaft-30VK78

Thanks
 Jack

Quote:
@TSO Products I bought from you guys but think you guys should go back to including your own steel stop collar if possible like you did with mark 1. The one included in aluminum is not durable at all over more than 1 MFT table worth of holes. The rest of the kit is solid though.

@Jruks – we really appreciate your comments about the Stop Collar. The Clamping Collar we have added for a time while AXMINSTER was still supplying the steel set screw version solved the problem. The cost to us was painfully high for two reasons: the high cost of supplying a US made Stainless Steel Clamping Collar, inbound shipping, receiving, then picking and opening the Parf Guide tubes to include the Clamping collar and an explanatory notice all added up. Before we could even overpack the PGS and return it to the warehouse shelf.
You can see how labor- and  transaction cost-intensive some harmless looking items actually turn out to be.
I will be in England later this month and meet with Axminster. I will take this matter up with them again. – thanks for your feedback!
Hans

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 853
    • TSO Products
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #166 on: May 11, 2019, 10:05 PM »
Hans,

Would this stainless collar from Grainger work for those of us that didn't get in on the kits y'all sold with the updated collar?

https://www.grainger.com/product/RULAND-MANUFACTURING-316-Stainless-Steel-Shaft-30VK78

Thanks
 Jack


YES, Jack - that is the Clamping Collar we have provided. Perhaps we should make it available for purchase. Wonder if there is enough interest to warrant the effort.
Any others interested?

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #167 on: May 12, 2019, 08:03 PM »
axminister was out of the 20 mm drill bit till Thursday. They sent me a new one on friday. Waiting for it to arrive.

I seem to be having a run with bad luck. First the rulers, then the 20 mm drill bit shaft. I tried testing the bench dogs in the orange block and there is a little bit of a play . Once I get my drill bit I will drill a set of holes and see what happens.

This is crazy. I should have purchased from TSO. Though axminster has been great with regards to customer service but the shipping times are just too much.

Offline m. lindholm

  • Posts: 14
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #168 on: May 15, 2019, 10:51 AM »
Hans,

Would this stainless collar from Grainger work for those of us that didn't get in on the kits y'all sold with the updated collar?

https://www.grainger.com/product/RULAND-MANUFACTURING-316-Stainless-Steel-Shaft-30VK78

Thanks
 Jack

YES, Jack - that is the Clamping Collar we have provided. Perhaps we should make it available for purchase. Wonder if there is enough interest to warrant the effort.
Any others interested?

Hans

I assume it merely looks similar, but isn't technically the actual one you got.  While the stainless clamping collar is an improvement over the aluminum setscrew one, it seems a disservice to choose a $32 part, versus a very similar, $12 one.  Including an item like that would certainly have explained some of the cost difference between you and ordering direct from Axminster.  [wink]

Kidding aside, even though I got the Mark II kit which now includes the clamping collar, the aluminum one got scratched and galled on its bottom surface after making my first top.  I had planned to order one of the stainless clamping collars (the $12 303-SS one, not the $32 316-SS one) to replace it, since I have a Grainger near where I eat lunch, so no shipping charge.

I think it's a reasonable idea to get a small quantity of the cheaper ones, and add them to your items.  Especially if a person doesn't have a Grainger nearby, adding that to a Parf guide order is a smart add-on idea.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #169 on: May 15, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Hans,

Would this stainless collar from Grainger work for those of us that didn't get in on the kits y'all sold with the updated collar?

https://www.grainger.com/product/RULAND-MANUFACTURING-316-Stainless-Steel-Shaft-30VK78

Thanks
 Jack

YES, Jack - that is the Clamping Collar we have provided. Perhaps we should make it available for purchase. Wonder if there is enough interest to warrant the effort.
Any others interested?

Hans

I assume it merely looks similar, but isn't technically the actual one you got.  While the stainless clamping collar is an improvement over the aluminum setscrew one, it seems a disservice to choose a $32 part, versus a very similar, $12 one.  Including an item like that would certainly have explained some of the cost difference between you and ordering direct from Axminster.  [wink]

Kidding aside, even though I got the Mark II kit which now includes the clamping collar, the aluminum one got scratched and galled on its bottom surface after making my first top.  I had planned to order one of the stainless clamping collars (the $12 303-SS one, not the $32 316-SS one) to replace it, since I have a Grainger near where I eat lunch, so no shipping charge.

I think it's a reasonable idea to get a small quantity of the cheaper ones, and add them to your items.  Especially if a person doesn't have a Grainger nearby, adding that to a Parf guide order is a smart add-on idea.

Sorry but why is the aluminum stop collar not good. If it’s wear couldn’t we just add a $0.25 nylon wear washer in place of a $32 SS collar?

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 118
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #170 on: May 15, 2019, 12:00 PM »
Or, you could try something like this, shouldn't be too hard to open the bore up to 10mm

Nylon Split Collar

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #171 on: May 16, 2019, 01:34 AM »
To follow up after having a chance to make a quick cutting station, I did a five cut test. I measured 0.934" at the top end, 0.928" at the bottom end. The offcut piece was 13 3/4" long (actually just shy, more like 13 47/64"). So it was 0.007" over 13.75". [0.007/13.75/4] gives an actual error of 0.00013 radians!

Offline jkc_WA

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #172 on: May 16, 2019, 01:36 AM »
I just noticed my error in reporting 0.007 as the difference between .934 and .928. Should be 0.006 which would then yield an error of 0.00011 radians.

Offline Rta108

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #173 on: July 04, 2019, 01:33 PM »
First post here.
Researching the problems I’m having with my new mark 2 Parf system. I can’t seem to make a straight line of holes, seeing basically the same issues mentioned previously.

Bought direct from axminster, so I’ve reached out to them hoping for some help.

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 378
    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #174 on: July 04, 2019, 02:06 PM »
First post here.
Researching the problems I’m having with my new mark 2 Parf system. I can’t seem to make a straight line of holes, seeing basically the same issues mentioned previously.

Bought direct from axminster, so I’ve reached out to them hoping for some help.

@Rta108 -let us know if we can help here in the US.

Holes not lining up at this stage of the MARK 2 product life seems an unlikely product defect. I saw their checking fixture when I was there 6 weeks ago. A machined fixture with fixed steel locating pins and they're checking 100% of production Parf Stick Mark 2.

You can reach us at
          info@tsoproducts.com

mention your FOG handle and add a phone number, too!

Hans

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 378
    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #175 on: July 04, 2019, 02:13 PM »
 -one more picture of the Parf Stick Inspection fixture - detail

Hans

Offline Rta108

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #176 on: July 04, 2019, 02:17 PM »
Email sent thanks.

I’m far from perfect. I’ve actually spent some time trying to rule myself out as the problem.

I’m finding The misalignment errors to be consistent and repeatable.




Offline Rta108

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #177 on: July 04, 2019, 02:20 PM »
The holes shown in those Parf sticks look much cleaner than mine.

Offline Solly1

  • Posts: 18
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #178 on: July 04, 2019, 04:18 PM »
@TSO Products - seems like the perfect opportunity to discuss instigating, what seems to be on the surface, obvious improvements to the execution ...
a) a quality check at the end of manufacture that emulates the tests we are all doing in this thread to identify discrepancies before they reach customers (e.g.a highly accurate machined rack with 17 x 6mm posts that each ruler is stacked upon, or discarded if not able to be)

Holes not lining up at this stage of the MARK 2 product life seems an unlikely product defect. I saw their checking fixture when I was there 6 weeks ago. A machined fixture with fixed steel locating pins and they're checking 100% of production Parf Stick Mark 2.

Glad they adopted my suggestion Hans @TSO_Products [tongue] [big grin], in theory it should eliminate the rule issues although if Rta108's purchase was recent, maybe not? I wonder if it's possible the rules deform at altitude/temp changes when shipping somehow ...

@Rta108 Further to above posts, I subsequently received a 2nd set of rules from Axminster (their follow up service was impeccable) ... rule #3's holes weren't co-linear, but rule #4 was close. I therefore only used #3 for layout pinned between 0 and 10, and only #4 for drilling the holes. I also found that when pinned in 0 and 10, there was the ability for the rule to deflect significantly, so I took to using three pins, 0, 10 and adjacent to the current hole being drilled to secure it. Likewise 3 pins / locators with the 20mm jig. Seemed to improve things considerably.

I since completed a full set of holes on a full sheet work table 2400 x 1200 and diagonals between holes were within 1mm taking Peter's advice to begin in the middle third and work outwards. Yet to confirm if all the holes are co-linear, but a couple of quick 5 cut tests seemed very accurate (0.00007 radians / 0.004 degrees if my math was correct). I also drilled some 3mm holes in all 4 corners and middle to allow for future offset holes if desired.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 04:26 PM by Solly1 »

Offline Rta108

  • Posts: 23
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #179 on: July 04, 2019, 05:06 PM »
My rulers look a little rough, IMO.

The whole set oozes quality.... until you notice the holes. rough chamfers, burrs, and general inconsistency. Sometimes the 3mm pin drops right in, sometimes I can’t get it at all without a battle. I’d say they look like they’ve been worked by hand.

Hoping I just got old stock.