Author Topic: Parf dog hole router bit  (Read 2967 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Parf dog hole router bit
« on: April 04, 2020, 09:00 PM »
Does ujk make a router bit the same size as the drill bit?  Or is there a bushing i can use on my mft jig with out buying a parf guide system? I have this one already.  https://www.taigatools.com/mft-router-template.html   it works but id like to make a isometric top.  Is that possible with my jig or must i have a parf Guide system to make one? Would i be able to with two parf guide rulers or setting my jig on a 30% angle and achieve the same thing? 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 09:35 PM by guthrie_m@earthlink.net »
TS-75, LR32, OF-1400, TSO GRS16PE,  TSO TPG-20, TPG-30, TPG Adapter, XL DF 700 domino, Rotex 150, CT 48 AC HEPA Dust Extractor

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 02:34 AM »
So i guess i can use a bit and see what happens?  I guess i just need to get a 10 mm shank collet.  To use a parf guide bit that can make a hole that is 19.98 mm in diameter. 
TS-75, LR32, OF-1400, TSO GRS16PE,  TSO TPG-20, TPG-30, TPG Adapter, XL DF 700 domino, Rotex 150, CT 48 AC HEPA Dust Extractor

Offline cubevandude

  • Posts: 107
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 09:51 AM »
You'd think the company would sell the proper bit for their jig.  My guess after looking at the jig is that you drill a smaller dia hole and then use a flush trim bit to finish it.

Why don't you just buy the replacement parf guide drill bit.  All you need to do is drill the 3mm pilot hole to use it and you will have the perfect hole for the stainless Steel veritas dogs.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-20mm-cutter-split-stop-collar-for-parf-guide-system-105403
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/71185-stainless-steel-parf-dogs-by-veritas
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 09:55 AM by cubevandude »

Online Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 10:34 AM »
I did buy the entire MKII Parf system from Axminster.  I really suggest you reach out to them.  They are good at technical questions and can tell you if they have the bit your want. 

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8725
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 10:59 AM »
Your Taiga fixture needs to be used with a router/router bit while the UJK fixture uses a drill/drill bit. Unfortunately, there's just not much synergy between the 2 competing systems.  [eek]

You could try using your Taiga with the Festool 20 mm boring bit 491072 that's made for a router. I made an MFT in 18 mm baltic birch using the Festool bit and the Woodpeckers fixture.

I also made another MFT in a 1 1/2" thick maple bench top using a 20 mm Zobo bit in a drill. However, there is a difference in the fit of the same Woodpecker dogs in the 2 different tops.

That's always been the issue, you need a tight fit if you're using the MFT for alignment purposes, however for repetitive clamping purposes a looser fit is probably preferred.

Offline savsuds

  • Posts: 41
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2020, 06:17 PM »
I was not able to make an isometric top with my Woodpecker MFT jig. I was only able to do it with my Parf Guide Mark II (I don't have the Mark I).
Hobbyist just trying to have fun and not let my OCD ruin it for me.

Offline pnichols1776

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2020, 09:54 PM »
Your Taiga fixture needs to be used with a router/router bit while the UJK fixture uses a drill/drill bit. Unfortunately, there's just not much synergy between the 2 competing systems.  [eek]

You could try using your Taiga with the Festool 20 mm boring bit 491072 that's made for a router. I made an MFT in 18 mm baltic birch using the Festool bit and the Woodpeckers fixture.

I also made another MFT in a 1 1/2" thick maple bench top using a 20 mm Zobo bit in a drill. However, there is a difference in the fit of the same Woodpecker dogs in the 2 different tops.

That's always been the issue, you need a tight fit if you're using the MFT for alignment purposes, however for repetitive clamping purposes a looser fit is probably preferred.

Cheese how did the 20 mm bit/Woodpecker jig combo work out? I want to make as perfect 90's as possible and this seems to be the best quality/fastest production answer, short of a CNC or buying a pre-made MFT top.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8725
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2020, 10:55 PM »
Cheese how did the 20 mm bit/Woodpecker jig combo work out? I want to make as perfect 90's as possible and this seems to be the best quality/fastest production answer, short of a CNC or buying a pre-made MFT top.

First off..,. [welcome] to the Fog.

The next question is are you using this MFT top for general clamping or for tight tolerance fixturing?

The 20 mm Festool bit and the Woodpeckers jig/fixture worked fine once a centering ring for the jig was fabricated. That's the secret, a centering ring that fits on the Festool guide bushing that also fits the inside diameter of the Woodpecker fixture. After that every action is a straight downwards plunge with the router and the Festool bit will cut a uniform diameter hole.

If you use commercially available dogs you'll need to ascertain if they will provide the needed level of accuracy that you prefer in your set-up.

I use my MFT with Woodpeckers dogs and find it fine for 95% of the stuff I do. If I need more precision, I'll just turn my own dogs from some aluminum round stock.


Offline pnichols1776

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2020, 08:27 AM »
Thanks
How did you fabricate the centering ring? I assume the bushing Woodpeckers included wouldn’t work? FWIW I have a Dewalt 618 router I was planning to use, the PC-style bushings work fine in it.

Want a reliable grid pattern to use for alignment for cutting and assembly - mostly cabinets and furniture.
Planning to use this in my Timothy Wilmots MFTC build, an assembly table for my shop and anything else that comes to mind. Maybe even manufacture some custom sized MFT-style table tops to sell locally.

I don’t have steady access to a CNC so looking for a good alternative.

Appreciate the help!

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8725
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2020, 10:22 AM »
1. How did you fabricate the centering ring?
 
2. I assume the bushing Woodpeckers included wouldn’t work?

3. FWIW I have a Dewalt 618 router I was planning to use, the PC-style bushings work fine in it.

4. Want a reliable grid pattern to use for alignment for cutting and assembly - mostly cabinets and furniture.

5. Maybe even manufacture some custom sized MFT-style table tops to sell locally.


1. The centering ring was fabricated from aluminum on a small metal lathe. However, it could also be fabricated from PVC, plastic or even hard maple. You just want to center the router in the Woodpeckers jig/fixture.

Here's the aluminum bushing placed in the Woodpeckers jig and the Woodpecker bushing that slips into the aluminum bushing.




2. The Woodpeckers bushing will work it's just that by using it, the centering ring wall thickness gets to be a little thin, that's the reason I used aluminum. An alternative is to pick up a guide bushing that's larger than 20 mm so the Festool router bit will fit through it. Then the wall thickness of the centering ring will be thicker...especially if you're using hard maple.

3. Does the 618 have a plunge base, or can one be fitted? The Woodpeckers fixture really needs to be used with a plunge router.

4. For clamping and assembly and even some critical work you'll be fine. For a dog I think UJK makes some adjustable diameter dogs that could help you out.

5. Here's a shot of the tolerance build-up I had over a run of 11 holes over about 42". That's a 50" Woodpeckers rule centered on the first LH hole and the extreme RH hole is only about .50-.75 mm off.  [smile]




Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 378
    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2020, 12:21 PM »
All - this thread covers many of the reasons why TSO introduced and continues to supply two different diameter nominal 20 mm Dogs. Each made to very tight tolerances.

Standard clearance Dogs for repetitive general fixturing
CF-Dogs: Close Fitting for very precise positioning.

Our CF-Dogs are made to the same dimensions  as the AXMINSTER UJK Parf Super Dogs we stock and sell.

The result: the most complete range of Dog Workholding accessories stocked in the USA.

Hans


Offline xedos

  • Posts: 483
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2020, 03:43 PM »
You'd think the company would sell the proper bit for their jig.  My guess after looking at the jig is that you drill a smaller dia hole and then use a flush trim bit to finish it.

Why don't you just buy the replacement parf guide drill bit.  All you need to do is drill the 3mm pilot hole to use it and you will have the perfect hole for the stainless Steel veritas dogs.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-20mm-cutter-split-stop-collar-for-parf-guide-system-105403
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/71185-stainless-steel-parf-dogs-by-veritas

Taiga doesn't make a proprietary bit because their design is much simpler and doesn't require a "special" bit.   The design mandate was that you'd use an off the shelf 20mm router bit and a 30mm guide bushing.  Initially it was to be mated to the OF1010 , its guide bushing and a festool 20mm bit.  While not as versatile are the Parf system, it is less expensive and 2-5x faster when knocking out a square or rectangular top.

Offline pnichols1776

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2020, 10:12 AM »
Thanks all

Cheese- I saw those pics & didn't realize they were yours, well done!

The 618 does have a plunge base, it's not great but it works till I can justify a 1400.

I like the idea of a 20mm festool bit in a 30mm bushing, that's the leading route for now...no turning ability in the shop and my go-to machinist is buried in work rn, though I like the aluminum bushing idea also.

Hans I'll check out the TSO dogs, thanks, can you tell me where they're manufactured?

Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2020, 02:03 PM »
I just got one of TSO CF-Dogs yesterday and it fits very nicely in my table.   A nice tight fit.  I will definitely be purchasing more.
TS-75, LR32, OF-1400, TSO GRS16PE,  TSO TPG-20, TPG-30, TPG Adapter, XL DF 700 domino, Rotex 150, CT 48 AC HEPA Dust Extractor

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8725
Re: Parf dog hole router bit
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2020, 06:34 PM »