Author Topic: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System  (Read 55295 times)

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Offline wow

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2015, 04:41 AM »
I could have used the Seneca ones today when I trimmed up a Corian sink.

For those who bought them, I see that they are 'marked down' to $189.95 on the Seneca website. Is that a deal, or is it just marketing?
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

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Offline Tinker

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2015, 07:16 AM »
I use RMW's guides with great results.  I seldom go by the tape.  I measure from the cutting edge of the rail guide to the stop on the T-track for one end of the setup.  Once satisfactorilly adjusted, I measure from back track of the rail to the stop and then duplicate that measurement at the other end.  There is some deflection as the tape is pulled across the rail from cutting edge to the stop.  by equal adjustment from the back track to the stops, there is no need to guess how much the deflection influences equal (parallel) measurements.
Tinker
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Offline jstockman

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2015, 05:19 PM »
I have the ones from ebay (RMW-Ripdogs) and they work perfectly.  The material that Richard use seems to hold up very well.  I do not see any future problem with them because of the material they are made from.

Rusty

Guys

Can the RMW-Rip Dogs be used to rip 4 by 8 sheets of plywood?  The videos show them on a MFT3 table. A 4 by 8 is too big for a MFT3.

Also, where can i purchase them?

Big thx

Jim

Offline sprior

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2015, 05:33 PM »
I don't think the RMW dogs would be good for ripping a 4x8 - I'd recommend the Seneca Parallel Guides or RMW Rip Guides for that - they don't need dogs and therefore MFT holes.

Online JimD

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2015, 08:23 PM »
These seem similar to the Seneca for a bit less money:

http://precisiondogs.us/products/precision-parallel-guides-v11

Offline SoonerFan

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2015, 08:54 PM »
I have the Festool Parallel guides.  For me they are fine.  Maybe a little challenging to use but as a hobbyist its not too painful.  When I got mine there were not as many other options our at least options I knew about.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2015, 09:11 PM »
I also use the Festool parallel guides.

Peter

Offline Corwin

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2015, 10:11 PM »
There wasn't any such thing as 'parallel guides' when I started with Festool, but I had a bunch of Incra Incremental Track and started out using those as story sticks. I soon made a base to mount the track and rail onto and spent too long looking for something other than a piano hinge to connect the rail to the base. I finally gave up the search and went with the piano hinge and haven't looked back. Here's my SketchUp animation that shows my old parallel jig.

Corwin's Parallel jig


Offline Rusty Miller

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2015, 10:45 AM »
Corwin,
Another great jig.  I think with this one you wouldn't even need the narrow strip jig.

Rusty
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Offline Corwin

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2015, 11:58 AM »
Corwin,
Another great jig.  I think with this one you wouldn't even need the narrow strip jig.

Rusty

You'r right, Rusty. This latest animation accurately depicts the jig I made years ago, while the Narrow Rip jig is simply an idea I had based on my Parallel jig. And I do use my Parallel jig in conjunction with a sacrificial base with an included fence for narrow rips. I have one final animation that I'm finishing up on that shows this sacrificial base in use on the MFT along with my MFT zero-clearance fence system. I promise that this next animation will be the last animation that I will share here.

Offline Rusty Miller

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2015, 08:29 PM »
I hope it's not the last animation you share here.  I know they are a lot of work but it sure gets the point across in the best way. Thanks Corwin for all the work you do on this.

Rusty
Rusty Miller
I'd rather be woodworking!

Offline jmac80

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2015, 08:10 AM »
I just ordered some Seneca guides with 20%  off (black friday)
What size incra t-track plus do you guys tend to use most?
Was thinking about 24" myself as i imagine using it for long cuts on a 8x4 sheet so 24 would reach over halfway.
Could just use a 1400 rail and a square to get the wide cuts then working of my straight edge...
Or is it worth getting a 36 / 48 rail also?
James

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2015, 10:04 PM »
I'm just arting with a TS-55-REQ and rails. This thread is extremeley interesting although hard to understand because it makes reference to things, suppliers and methods you all know. Too bad I have not seen an of this demonstrated on you tube. The Precision website leaves a lot to the imagination from a learning standpoint.
I am looking for a basis to decide what to do for ripping an cross cutting.

adhesive tape rulers:
if you want to apply any adhesive backed material and place it accurately, you can use a spraybottle with water and a bit of dishsoap to relieve surface tension. Spray it on the equipment and the PSA backed material can be "floated" into position until you use a suitably sized squeegee to squegee the water out - bingo - done . Hope this helps pay back the help I'm getting from all the FOG postings.
Hans
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Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2015, 11:01 PM »
well, I can now take back what I just said about not having seen any of this on youtube. The posts above referring to SENECA led me to Paul Marcel's excellent  video demo of of the Domiplate.
Having seen a reference to a BlackFriday discount I took advantage of that and ordered the SENECA parallel guide kit too.

Thanks to you all, I'll get there too  [smile]
Hans

TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Corwin

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2015, 02:43 AM »
So, here's my last animation. This one shows my old Zero-clearance fence system that I had been working on years ago when I was more active in my shop. What's applicable to this thread is my use of a fenced sled to not only assist in cutting material narrower than the Guide Rail, but also to help in initially setting your rail square with the fence. This was all before we ever heard of a QWAS dog, and were still looking for ways to regain our squareness, so to speak -- yet, I think it still has merit over the dog route.

On Edit: Turn Closed Caption ON

« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 04:29 AM by Corwin »

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2015, 08:35 AM »
to Corwin's point:
I don't yet understand what the drawback is to using benchdogs and why this or other approaches to squaring have advantages.
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Rockne

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2016, 11:54 AM »
I know there has been some time since the last post on this thread, but I am compelled to offer my experience after a weekend with the Seneca guides (with the narrow stock adapters, too).  I've also done a Festool class at my local Woodcraft (I was the only student, so I got to ask all the questions I wanted) and we used the Festool guides quite a bit.  In my opinion, the Festool Guides are far better than the Seneca guides.  The Seneca guides are well made, but poorly designed.  For context, I used the Seneca guides both to rip down sheet goods, but also as an assist for the LR32 system.

Plusses:  Lie flat.  Quality craftsmanship.
Minuses:  They are as Fiddly as anything I've ever used (or is it Fiddely, or Fiddley?).  Well, whatever, they are about the most frustrating things to work with.  They use square nuts, and allen key machine screws to attach to the rail.  Trying to get the narrow stock adapters on is a test in patience, too. 

Using separate square nuts allows for a significant amount of difference in the guides, because it's not likely to be attached the same way every time.  So, once you attach it to the rail, you had better cut down all of your stock before disconnecting it, otherwise, you'll have variance.  I was able to reduce variance by making sure that I pushed the guides all the way forward when I tightened the nuts, but they still moved.    The Festool system (if I remember correctly), uses two connection points, and uses two bars as opposed to individual square nuts.  I had half a mind to buy a festool rail connector, cut it in two (one half for each guide) and tap it to accept the screws.  I think it would help. 

And the machine screws?  Why wouldn't they use a knob?  I'd gladly pay the extra $5.00 for four knobs. You already have knobs at the adjustment points, so why not add a couple to make life easier? 

Incra Rail slips and the stop does, too.  I noticed when I was gently pulling the guides against the stock that the stop would sometimes move, even though I had it pretty well tightened down (If I have to mar the Incra rail to prevent this, it's a bad sign).  Other times, the rail itself would move from within the rail connector.  End result?  Before every cut, I'd have to get out the tape to verify that I was on, which mostly defeats the purpose of the system. 

Finally, you can't do this (or not very well) with the Seneca guides: 


Offline Tinker

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2016, 02:49 PM »
With RMW's Rip guides, I set them up as explained in Reply #31.  I have little extra space in my shop and sometimes I have to go from cross cut to rip cut useing the same table but different set ups for each cut.  Once i have the RMW rip guids set, I can make my cut, remove the guides still set on the guide rail, move it to anywhere in the shop and make the cross cut.  I then move the rail/ripguide set up back to the original table for the next rip cut. and go thru the same operation for the next cross cut.  as long as I tighten securely, i can go thru the same pattern as many times as needed. I have even leaned the whole thing against a wall if no flat space is available.  Those guides are really quite stable.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Online JimD

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2016, 09:22 PM »
I have a DeWalt track saw so the rip guides for a Festool won't work.  But a guy on Sawmill Creek came up with an idea which I copied.  They slide into the underside of the rib on the track.  But you can't clamp the rail.  So I came up with track setting guides that just position the track and then go away.  Very low cost and work better for me.  One works great for narrow rips. 

the disadvantage of the Festool not being supported can be partially remedied with a small addition.  Ron Paulk shows the mod in one of his videos.

Offline s1301950

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2016, 11:03 AM »
can the incra track be substitute by kreg track? i bought the kreg precision trek stop kit for my miter saw, which came with 4x 2ft track, but only implemented 2x2ft. i was wondering if i can use the other 2ft track for the seneca parallel guide.

Offline Mrs C

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2016, 03:02 PM »
A pair of Pro grip guide stops work remakably well on festool track, and are oodles cheaper.  If you want longer guides, all the varijig/proclamp stuff is the same - you can get longer bits of extrusion onto which the guide stops will fit.

Offline Pizza Steve

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2016, 04:31 PM »
A pair of Pro grip guide stops work remakably well on festool track, and are oodles cheaper.  If you want longer guides, all the varijig/proclamp stuff is the same - you can get longer bits of extrusion onto which the guide stops will fit.

How do the Pro Grip Guide Stops connect?  Got any pics?

Offline Mrs C

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2016, 05:11 PM »
Hi,  the connectores are a bit fiddly, but once they are on and square they stay there.  Guide stops are £23 each in the UK and xome withthe connectors.

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2016, 09:53 PM »
I just received my Seneca parallel guide system today.  Personally don't care if it gets set to read directly or not, but the system is simple, fast to set up and I really like it.   The Woodpeckers rule will be added to my list later as I think it is a great way to quickly set them up, but I'm comfortable with my measurement transfer methods to put it to use as is.

I'm about to burn through about $600 of materials for a big project and will report my results when done.  I have no experience with rip guides and therefore can't comment on them.  I have many thin strips to rip as well as wider panels, so this will be interesting.

Nothing is perfect, but I'm very impressed with the Seneca system after figuring how to eliminate the most likely sources of creep.



 

Offline tazprime38

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2016, 10:06 AM »
Hi,  the connectores are a bit fiddly, but once they are on and square they stay there.  Guide stops are £23 each in the UK and xome withthe connectors.

Mrs C  that is brilliant and much cheaper. Its a shame the bridge stops are not sold separately as the short track they come with would not be needed if you bought the complete trend varijig which is about £70.00 .

Then you can buy a couple of track joiners for parallel guides of upto around 1.3m. 

Are the connections to the festool track solid and  do tgey stsy put if you move the track and guides between cuts? Only thing you cant do is narrow cuts.


Offline rst

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2016, 11:02 AM »
I use the Precision Dogs guides and while I have Incra metric scales installed, I still double check by measuring with a Woodpeckers metric rule from the non cuting side of the rail and adding what I know to be the offset where my saws cut.  I find that the Rip Dog guides fit  consistently well enough that I can reposition them on the rail with no loss of accuracy.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 04:14 PM by rst »

Offline eddomak

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2016, 11:31 PM »
Last weekend I was using my Precision Dogs parallel guides and did a BIG mistake - read the index off the wrong side of the block (for several cuts, and only found out during dry fit!) [scared]

Fortunately it was the "large" side, and so it was just a matter of ripping things down by 25 mm (by setting on the CORRECT side of the block) and re-doing some domino mortises. PHEW!  [big grin]

So this weekend I double checked before using them. I think I might put a dot of red nail polish on the correct side to remind myself which side to read off.

Offline Dan-

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2016, 01:06 PM »
These seem similar to the Seneca for a bit less money:

http://precisiondogs.us/products/precision-parallel-guides-v11

I have these, and they work great.

Offline thedevme

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2019, 08:41 PM »
Bumping this thread since most of the replies were from 2016.  Which ones are better to use Precision vs Seneca vs any others I may not be aware of? I need to get a pair this weekend as the Festool ones are limited in length.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parallel Guides vs Rip Guides vs Parallel Guide System
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2019, 08:56 PM »
@thedevme - in addition to the two brands you mention, Woodpeckers has added their PGS parallel guide to be available now anytime. Since word is out about our new TPG-50 system you may be able to find used parallel guides of these other earlier models in the usual used tool places right now. Our own product will ship next month - not in time for your rush job.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA