Author Topic: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?  (Read 26653 times)

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Offline Reiska

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I'm currently glueing together my Cyclone Central 50mm cyclone and I'm measuring up SYS5 T-loc systainer lid for use as the deposit box on top of my CTL26.

Has anyone tried if a Systainer is tight enough to work as the deposit box and not blow to pieces under pressure?

How badly would making the hole reduce the strength of the lids support construction if punched through where the Festool text is?

I guess at least a plywood circle backer would be needed inside the systainer for the attachment screws?

The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

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Offline Festoller

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Offline Reiska

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I see you built an inner plywood container to the systainer - did you do that to withstand crushing forces on the systainer or to make emptying easier since the lid is hinged?

I'm just wondering wouldn't it be easier to make a systainer base clip compatible plywood box in the first place instead of cannibalizing a systainer for this if you need to build a plywood box anyway?
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Kev

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I've been toying with this very question.

There has been a couple of threads on it - generally I think the butchering required and the fact that you're unlikely to ever stack anything on top (particularly during use) means a compatible based box would be "more sensible" ... one with a lid you can turn upside down to store the cyclone maybe.

Though if I ever get round to it, I'll probably start with a Sys5 [big grin] I like systainers.

Offline Alan m

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i tryed this with a sys 4 ( think)  and a sys2 . it didnt work well at all. there isnt a good enough seal between the lid and the base part to trap the air and the negative pressure pulls in the sides.
if i were you i would make a box the size of a systainer  and use that instead.

there is a thread on that mess i made on here somewher . i will see if i can find it.
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Offline Festoller

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I see you built an inner plywood container to the systainer - did you do that to withstand crushing forces on the systainer or to make emptying easier since the lid is hinged?

I'm just wondering wouldn't it be easier to make a systainer base clip compatible plywood box in the first place instead of cannibalizing a systainer for this if you need to build a plywood box anyway?

To make emptying easier with the Dust Deputy on top! The Systainer will withstand the crushing forces, at least from the Midi and CTL 26. Although I have to admit since I have the CTL 26 I haven't used it much, except for routing. Also the missing anti static effect is really annoying, if you don't bridge it properly. This is not a problem when sanding or routing, but using it with a track saw or Kapex keeps you really awake!
The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be. -Douglas Adams-

Online Peter Parfitt

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Hi Reiska

I have a Dust Deputy which is exclusively used on top of my CTL26 (photo below). I bought it before I discovered Cyclone Central (or rather - they discovered me - their 100mm cyclone is fantastic).

I thought about using a systainer but discounted it on the basis of cost, suitability and difficulty in conversion. Instead I built a simple drop box from 19mm MDF. In order for my box to fit properly on my CT26 I made a small base frame (independent of the box structure) that fits into the recess on the CT26 and allows the locking clips to be applied. This frame (second photo) was then screwed to the completed drop box. The lid of the drop box is fitted with a lip, which improves the seal, but I have also helped it with a line of draught proofer. I have installed clips on each side (put on after the photograph was taken) to keep the lid and base together during movement. Finally, I made sure that the finished height of the drop box on top of the CT26 was 2mm lower than the standard 900mm height of my MFT3 and Kapex workstation and mounted the DD towards the back to make the area in front usable.

Total cost $2.

I am sure that the whole arrangement must be visible in some of my videos.

Peter

Offline Samer

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Online Peter Parfitt

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Hi Reiska

How have you got on assembling the 50mm Cyclone Central? Have you put in a pressure relief valve?

I use my 100mm one to intercept the chippings from my planing machine with a plastic dustbin as a drop box. I then put the shavings onto my compost heap which gives a perfect balance with the grass cuttings. I fork over the heap about once a week and everything rots down really well.

Peter

Offline TomGadwa1

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Hi Reiska

I have a Dust Deputy which is exclusively used on top of my CTL26 (photo below). I bought it before I discovered Cyclone Central (or rather - they discovered me - their 100mm cyclone is fantastic).

I thought about using a systainer but discounted it on the basis of cost, suitability and difficulty in conversion. Instead I built a simple drop box from 19mm MDF. In order for my box to fit properly on my CT26 I made a small base frame (independent of the box structure) that fits into the recess on the CT26 and allows the locking clips to be applied. This frame (second photo) was then screwed to the completed drop box. The lid of the drop box is fitted with a lip, which improves the seal, but I have also helped it with a line of draught proofer. I have installed clips on each side (put on after the photograph was taken) to keep the lid and base together during movement. Finally, I made sure that the finished height of the drop box on top of the CT26 was 2mm lower than the standard 900mm height of my MFT3 and Kapex workstation and mounted the DD towards the back to make the area in front usable.

Total cost $2.

I am sure that the whole arrangement must be visible in some of my videos.

Peter

Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
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Online Peter Parfitt

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Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
My local timber supplier allows customers to have free offcuts - the base frame cost nothing. The small amount of MDF was left over from another job where its cost had been factored - hence the $2 that I allowed. I think that Samer's cyclone is very elegant and shows some high craft skills but in the time it would take me to make one (and I would struggle to make one as good as his) I could turn several hundreds of dollars profit from routine work.

Peter

Offline TomGadwa1

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Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
My local timber supplier allows customers to have free offcuts - the base frame cost nothing. The small amount of MDF was left over from another job where its cost had been factored - hence the $2 that I allowed. I think that Samer's cyclone is very elegant and shows some high craft skills but in the time it would take me to make one (and I would struggle to make one as good as his) I could turn several hundreds of dollars profit from routine work.

Peter
Very true. I am curious as I never built one, what does a routine look like?  [big grin] ;)
TS55 EQ  OF1400 EQ  DFQ 500 Q  RO 125  LR32 SET  Guide Rail Acc Kit Parallel Guide Set MFK 700 EQ Set MFS700 ETS 150/3 EQ Domino Cutter Assortment T15-3 Drill Set RO 90 EQ Workshop Cleaning Set CT36 Kapex 120 MFT/3 LR32 1080 FS 1400 FS 1900 WCR1000 PSB300 Boom Arm Set Clamping Elements RS 2 E  Kapex UG Set Zobo Forstner Set Centrotech Installers Set OF1010 OF2200 ZS-OF 2200 SYS1000 Syslite CT MIDI FS 800

There Are Those That Can Do, There Are Those That Can Not Do, Those That Can Not Do Have Those That Can Do Do The Things That They Can Not Do So That They Feel That They Have Done Something.

There ain't no something for nothing machine.

Offline flounder

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Peter,
You posted feedback on the Axi site (I assume it was you!) for the Numatic NVD750.  Do you still have this extractor and what is your opnion of it now?  I am in need of an extractor that I can use in a really confined space that I can hook up to a 100mm thicknesser outlet as well as use with power tools and this looks like it could tick both boxes.  I would love to have a Festool vac but they don't look like they could handle both tasks?
Cheers

Online Peter Parfitt

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Peter,
You posted feedback on the Axi site (I assume it was you!) for the Numatic NVD750.  Do you still have this extractor and what is your opnion of it now?  I am in need of an extractor that I can use in a really confined space that I can hook up to a 100mm thicknesser outlet as well as use with power tools and this looks like it could tick both boxes.  I would love to have a Festool vac but they don't look like they could handle both tasks?
Cheers

Hi

I still have the Numatic and I love it. I use it through a Cyclone Central 100mm cyclone with a dustbin as a drop box. I use it with my planer/thicknesser and my bandsaw. For those machines one wants high volume rather than high vacuum. If you can find anything with higher volume at a similar or better price then that could end up being better (but the Numatic has a good HEPA standard). That said, I would not change mine. If you use a cyclone then you ought to have a pressure relief valve just in case.

All of my other workshop (and away from workshop) requirements are met by my CTL26. This is not suitable to handle either the planer or bandsaw. For general cleanups, and for pulling any dust from setups that require two places of suction (my router tables), I also use my very old Dyson.

I hope that helps.

Peter

Offline Reiska

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Thanks for asking Peter, I think I finally got the cyclone itself airtight. I haven't put in a relief valve since I am under the impression that the small cyclones don't need it?

What I'm scratching my head with now is how to get it connected to my CT26 - the 50mm ports in the cyclone are just that much too large or small for both the 36mm Festool hose tool end and the 50mm vacuum connector.

Anyone figured out if any of the Festool hose ends would be a tight fit inside or outside these dustports?
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Online Peter Parfitt

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Hi reiska

I bought some 2 inch (might be 2 1/4 inch) plastic waste pipe and warmed it up, adjusted the size and made quite a good fit.

See the photo.

Peter

ericbuggeln

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Have to work, but will post text later. DD stole this concept from me and other early members of the FOG, it took us like an evening of posts to come up with it, Eric

Offline VSM_4

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Just finished my systainer cyclone, with the help of some photos from Ericbuggeln.

It works great, and I don't find there to be any loss of suction at all. 

Some things I did different than his:

Used the Tanos lid insert (EPP) which is rigid foam/polystyrene
I think this enables the top to be air tight.  I also siliconed the junk out of the joint between the foam, sys lid, and cyclone so there are no leaks.

For the inner box I decided to use cross members as a supports/pulls.  I originally just tacked on some scraps of wood to the inside of my collection box, but found that the lid of the systainer bends in a considerable amount while under full load.  The cross members support the top and act as pulls. 

I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy. 

   



 
Vinny

ericbuggeln

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Nice work Vinny, i wish i had done my lid like that

Offline mikeneron

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Looks like you better put that thing to good use on that floor  [tongue]

Quote from: Vindingo
I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy.

I can't really tell, but are the nozzles on your Dust Deputy tapered?  I found if I cut 20mm off then the Festool hose fit nice and securely without the need for any adapters.  That way you could get rid of that 90 degree adapter and have your hose coming straight out thus putting less stress on the Dust Deputy nozzle.  I attached some pics in another thread.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447

Offline Alan m

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Just finished my systainer cyclone, with the help of some photos from Ericbuggeln.

It works great, and I don't find there to be any loss of suction at all. 

Some things I did different than his:

Used the Tanos lid insert (EPP) which is rigid foam/polystyrene
I think this enables the top to be air tight.  I also siliconed the junk out of the joint between the foam, sys lid, and cyclone so there are no leaks.

For the inner box I decided to use cross members as a supports/pulls.  I originally just tacked on some scraps of wood to the inside of my collection box, but found that the lid of the systainer bends in a considerable amount while under full load.  The cross members support the top and act as pulls. 

I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy. 

   



 

nicely done. i like the pull out box. very thoughtfull
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline VSM_4

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Looks like you better put that thing to good use on that floor  [tongue]

Ha!  Today is clean the shop day, and I can't seem to bring myself to do it. 

I can't really tell, but are the nozzles on your Dust Deputy tapered?  I found if I cut 20mm off then the Festool hose fit nice and securely without the need for any adapters.  That way you could get rid of that 90 degree adapter and have your hose coming straight out thus putting less stress on the Dust Deputy nozzle.  I attached some pics in another thread.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447

That 90* bend is how the Fes hose attaches to the Mini.  It doesn't have a straight inlet like the bigger vacs do.  I guess I could have gotten straight Festool hose connector from a bigger vac that clips on to my 27mm hose, but its $20 I didn't want to throw at this contraption.  If I find that it becomes a pain in the neck, I will definitely keep your suggestion in mind.   

 
Vinny

ericbuggeln

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Vinny, I did some tests today and my ct 22 without DD on Sys5 has more suction, BUT the ct 22 with DD on Sys5 has mad suction. I have a board that is marked that the ct 22 could pick up when I first installed the long life bag. The ct 22 with DD on Sys5 couldnt pick up that board, but could pick up one its size that was 1/2 instead of 3/4. Ive been using it for four years and never had a problem with suction, but if I did it again I would use that stock systainer part as Vinny did, keep sucking, Eric

Offline VSM_4

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Eric,

That sounds like a good test.  I will try it tomorrow to see if there how much loss of suction I'm getting. 

I have been using it with the TS55 today, and even if the suction is less, it isn't enough to affect performance. 
Vinny

Offline VSM_4

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this thread also seems like it would be a good candidate for the Systainer subsection
Vinny

ericbuggeln

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Vinny, im stoked to see that worked out for you, now clean up that mess, dude! Eric

Offline GuyRogers

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Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2021, 03:51 AM »
Hello all
I appreciate this is a very old post.
I am very new to festool.

I love this setup by vinny.
Can anyone tell me:
Re dust cyclone…. Can you detach lid and rest upside down in systainer for transport?
Is there a systainer available that I could buy that would have a drawer section underneath for sanding disks storage (in same systainer). I am looking at the dust commander (with mounting seal). Only dims I can find is that it’s 310mm high. It’s prob a copy of the one you are using. I would also buy the pep lid insert by Tanos.  I am in Uk if that makes any difference.
Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers.
Guy

Offline Svar

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Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2021, 04:47 PM »
Re dust cyclone…. Can you detach lid and rest upside down in systainer for transport?
Is there a systainer available that I could buy that would have a drawer section underneath for sanding disks storage (in same systainer).
Lid is detachable, but not easily. I.e. you won't do it on regular basis without some modification.
There are systainers with a drawer underneath.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 04:50 PM by Svar »

Offline Paul_HKI

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Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2021, 06:32 PM »
Hi Guy,


Welcome to FOG. 


I have a Dust Commander DLX and a newer MK II version of same.  Mine are mounted on drums, but I measured up at one stage after reading this thread, to see what might be involved.


If you want to fit it to a removable top for a Systainer and invert it for storage purposes, you'll need to mount it to a piece of plywood and sit that into the top of an open systainer, likely on a mounting flange of some sort.  You could then lift it out, turn it upside down and close the systainer lid for storage/transportation.


The main thing to note is that the DLX will need a no. 5 sized systainer, without a doubt, if you mount it this way.  The no. 4 size is far too small.


In my case it just wasn't worth the effort and expense.  I just put a separator in each of the two locations where I'd use one.
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