Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Jigs & Tool Enhancements => Topic started by: Reiska on May 12, 2012, 11:49 AM

Title: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Reiska on May 12, 2012, 11:49 AM
I'm currently glueing together my Cyclone Central 50mm cyclone and I'm measuring up SYS5 T-loc systainer lid for use as the deposit box on top of my CTL26.

Has anyone tried if a Systainer is tight enough to work as the deposit box and not blow to pieces under pressure?

How badly would making the hole reduce the strength of the lids support construction if punched through where the Festool text is?

I guess at least a plywood circle backer would be needed inside the systainer for the attachment screws?

Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Festoller on May 12, 2012, 12:03 PM
Yes and it still works perfect:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/dust-deputy-%28plastic%29-on-systainer-festool-ctl-midi/?all (http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/dust-deputy-%28plastic%29-on-systainer-festool-ctl-midi/?all)

See post #25 with the details.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Reiska on May 12, 2012, 01:28 PM
I see you built an inner plywood container to the systainer - did you do that to withstand crushing forces on the systainer or to make emptying easier since the lid is hinged?

I'm just wondering wouldn't it be easier to make a systainer base clip compatible plywood box in the first place instead of cannibalizing a systainer for this if you need to build a plywood box anyway?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Kev on May 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
I've been toying with this very question.

There has been a couple of threads on it - generally I think the butchering required and the fact that you're unlikely to ever stack anything on top (particularly during use) means a compatible based box would be "more sensible" ... one with a lid you can turn upside down to store the cyclone maybe.

Though if I ever get round to it, I'll probably start with a Sys5 [big grin] I like systainers.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Alan m on May 12, 2012, 07:30 PM
i tryed this with a sys 4 ( think)  and a sys2 . it didnt work well at all. there isnt a good enough seal between the lid and the base part to trap the air and the negative pressure pulls in the sides.
if i were you i would make a box the size of a systainer  and use that instead.

there is a thread on that mess i made on here somewher . i will see if i can find it.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Festoller on May 13, 2012, 03:11 AM
I see you built an inner plywood container to the systainer - did you do that to withstand crushing forces on the systainer or to make emptying easier since the lid is hinged?

I'm just wondering wouldn't it be easier to make a systainer base clip compatible plywood box in the first place instead of cannibalizing a systainer for this if you need to build a plywood box anyway?

To make emptying easier with the Dust Deputy on top! The Systainer will withstand the crushing forces, at least from the Midi and CTL 26. Although I have to admit since I have the CTL 26 I haven't used it much, except for routing. Also the missing anti static effect is really annoying, if you don't bridge it properly. This is not a problem when sanding or routing, but using it with a track saw or Kapex keeps you really awake!
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Peter Parfitt on May 13, 2012, 03:29 AM
Hi Reiska

I have a Dust Deputy which is exclusively used on top of my CTL26 (photo below). I bought it before I discovered Cyclone Central (or rather - they discovered me - their 100mm cyclone is fantastic).

I thought about using a systainer but discounted it on the basis of cost, suitability and difficulty in conversion. Instead I built a simple drop box from 19mm MDF. In order for my box to fit properly on my CT26 I made a small base frame (independent of the box structure) that fits into the recess on the CT26 and allows the locking clips to be applied. This frame (second photo) was then screwed to the completed drop box. The lid of the drop box is fitted with a lip, which improves the seal, but I have also helped it with a line of draught proofer. I have installed clips on each side (put on after the photograph was taken) to keep the lid and base together during movement. Finally, I made sure that the finished height of the drop box on top of the CT26 was 2mm lower than the standard 900mm height of my MFT3 and Kapex workstation and mounted the DD towards the back to make the area in front usable.

Total cost $2.

I am sure that the whole arrangement must be visible in some of my videos.

Peter
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Samer on May 13, 2012, 05:13 AM
Have a look here =  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/home-made-festool-cyclone-dust/ (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/home-made-festool-cyclone-dust/)

i hope u like :)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Peter Parfitt on May 17, 2012, 12:35 AM
Hi Reiska

How have you got on assembling the 50mm Cyclone Central? Have you put in a pressure relief valve?

I use my 100mm one to intercept the chippings from my planing machine with a plastic dustbin as a drop box. I then put the shavings onto my compost heap which gives a perfect balance with the grass cuttings. I fork over the heap about once a week and everything rots down really well.

Peter
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: TomGadwa1 on May 17, 2012, 03:03 AM
Hi Reiska

I have a Dust Deputy which is exclusively used on top of my CTL26 (photo below). I bought it before I discovered Cyclone Central (or rather - they discovered me - their 100mm cyclone is fantastic).

I thought about using a systainer but discounted it on the basis of cost, suitability and difficulty in conversion. Instead I built a simple drop box from 19mm MDF. In order for my box to fit properly on my CT26 I made a small base frame (independent of the box structure) that fits into the recess on the CT26 and allows the locking clips to be applied. This frame (second photo) was then screwed to the completed drop box. The lid of the drop box is fitted with a lip, which improves the seal, but I have also helped it with a line of draught proofer. I have installed clips on each side (put on after the photograph was taken) to keep the lid and base together during movement. Finally, I made sure that the finished height of the drop box on top of the CT26 was 2mm lower than the standard 900mm height of my MFT3 and Kapex workstation and mounted the DD towards the back to make the area in front usable.

Total cost $2.

I am sure that the whole arrangement must be visible in some of my videos.

Peter

Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Peter Parfitt on May 17, 2012, 03:14 AM
Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
My local timber supplier allows customers to have free offcuts - the base frame cost nothing. The small amount of MDF was left over from another job where its cost had been factored - hence the $2 that I allowed. I think that Samer's cyclone is very elegant and shows some high craft skills but in the time it would take me to make one (and I would struggle to make one as good as his) I could turn several hundreds of dollars profit from routine work.

Peter
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: TomGadwa1 on May 17, 2012, 04:32 AM
Peter I would be careful about your budgeting expense for that great looking frame plate that you made. That $2.00 dollars could have been spent towards a pint after all.
Also do have a look at Samer's dust deputy as it is really a fantastic looking homebuilt unit.
My local timber supplier allows customers to have free offcuts - the base frame cost nothing. The small amount of MDF was left over from another job where its cost had been factored - hence the $2 that I allowed. I think that Samer's cyclone is very elegant and shows some high craft skills but in the time it would take me to make one (and I would struggle to make one as good as his) I could turn several hundreds of dollars profit from routine work.

Peter
Very true. I am curious as I never built one, what does a routine look like?  [big grin] ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: flounder on May 17, 2012, 04:48 AM
Peter,
You posted feedback on the Axi site (I assume it was you!) for the Numatic NVD750.  Do you still have this extractor and what is your opnion of it now?  I am in need of an extractor that I can use in a really confined space that I can hook up to a 100mm thicknesser outlet as well as use with power tools and this looks like it could tick both boxes.  I would love to have a Festool vac but they don't look like they could handle both tasks?
Cheers
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Peter Parfitt on May 17, 2012, 05:22 AM
Peter,
You posted feedback on the Axi site (I assume it was you!) for the Numatic NVD750.  Do you still have this extractor and what is your opnion of it now?  I am in need of an extractor that I can use in a really confined space that I can hook up to a 100mm thicknesser outlet as well as use with power tools and this looks like it could tick both boxes.  I would love to have a Festool vac but they don't look like they could handle both tasks?
Cheers

Hi

I still have the Numatic and I love it. I use it through a Cyclone Central 100mm cyclone with a dustbin as a drop box. I use it with my planer/thicknesser and my bandsaw. For those machines one wants high volume rather than high vacuum. If you can find anything with higher volume at a similar or better price then that could end up being better (but the Numatic has a good HEPA standard). That said, I would not change mine. If you use a cyclone then you ought to have a pressure relief valve just in case.

All of my other workshop (and away from workshop) requirements are met by my CTL26. This is not suitable to handle either the planer or bandsaw. For general cleanups, and for pulling any dust from setups that require two places of suction (my router tables), I also use my very old Dyson.

I hope that helps.

Peter
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Reiska on May 17, 2012, 06:46 AM
Thanks for asking Peter, I think I finally got the cyclone itself airtight. I haven't put in a relief valve since I am under the impression that the small cyclones don't need it?

What I'm scratching my head with now is how to get it connected to my CT26 - the 50mm ports in the cyclone are just that much too large or small for both the 36mm Festool hose tool end and the 50mm vacuum connector.

Anyone figured out if any of the Festool hose ends would be a tight fit inside or outside these dustports?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Peter Parfitt on May 17, 2012, 07:07 AM
Hi reiska

I bought some 2 inch (might be 2 1/4 inch) plastic waste pipe and warmed it up, adjusted the size and made quite a good fit.

See the photo.

Peter
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: ericbuggeln on May 17, 2012, 08:02 AM
Have to work, but will post text later. DD stole this concept from me and other early members of the FOG, it took us like an evening of posts to come up with it, Eric
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: VSM_4 on July 06, 2012, 01:33 PM
Just finished my systainer cyclone, with the help of some photos from Ericbuggeln.

It works great, and I don't find there to be any loss of suction at all. 

Some things I did different than his:

Used the Tanos lid insert (EPP) (http://www.mysystainer.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=447-338) which is rigid foam/polystyrene
I think this enables the top to be air tight.  I also siliconed the junk out of the joint between the foam, sys lid, and cyclone so there are no leaks.

For the inner box I decided to use cross members as a supports/pulls.  I originally just tacked on some scraps of wood to the inside of my collection box, but found that the lid of the systainer bends in a considerable amount while under full load.  The cross members support the top and act as pulls. 

I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy. 

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7515545518_555ddfb1f4_c.jpg)   

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8159/7515545368_de5935d9c3_c.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: ericbuggeln on July 06, 2012, 03:31 PM
Nice work Vinny, i wish i had done my lid like that
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: mikeneron on July 06, 2012, 03:57 PM
Looks like you better put that thing to good use on that floor  [tongue]

Quote from: Vindingo
I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy.

I can't really tell, but are the nozzles on your Dust Deputy tapered?  I found if I cut 20mm off then the Festool hose fit nice and securely without the need for any adapters.  That way you could get rid of that 90 degree adapter and have your hose coming straight out thus putting less stress on the Dust Deputy nozzle.  I attached some pics in another thread.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447 (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Alan m on July 06, 2012, 04:04 PM
Just finished my systainer cyclone, with the help of some photos from Ericbuggeln.

It works great, and I don't find there to be any loss of suction at all. 

Some things I did different than his:

Used the Tanos lid insert (EPP) (http://www.mysystainer.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=447-338) which is rigid foam/polystyrene
I think this enables the top to be air tight.  I also siliconed the junk out of the joint between the foam, sys lid, and cyclone so there are no leaks.

For the inner box I decided to use cross members as a supports/pulls.  I originally just tacked on some scraps of wood to the inside of my collection box, but found that the lid of the systainer bends in a considerable amount while under full load.  The cross members support the top and act as pulls. 

I used a cheapie home depot (Ridgid) spare hose kit that fit directly into the mini, and a coupling that fit the Fes AS hose to the Dust Deputy. 

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7515545518_555ddfb1f4_c.jpg)   

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8159/7515545368_de5935d9c3_c.jpg)

 

nicely done. i like the pull out box. very thoughtfull
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: VSM_4 on July 06, 2012, 04:41 PM
Looks like you better put that thing to good use on that floor  [tongue]

Ha!  Today is clean the shop day, and I can't seem to bring myself to do it. 

I can't really tell, but are the nozzles on your Dust Deputy tapered?  I found if I cut 20mm off then the Festool hose fit nice and securely without the need for any adapters.  That way you could get rid of that 90 degree adapter and have your hose coming straight out thus putting less stress on the Dust Deputy nozzle.  I attached some pics in another thread.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447 (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ultimate-oneida-cyclone-dust-collector-for-festool-vacs/msg213447/#msg213447)

That 90* bend is how the Fes hose attaches to the Mini.  It doesn't have a straight inlet like the bigger vacs do.  I guess I could have gotten straight Festool hose connector from a bigger vac that clips on to my 27mm hose, but its $20 I didn't want to throw at this contraption.  If I find that it becomes a pain in the neck, I will definitely keep your suggestion in mind.   

 
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: ericbuggeln on July 07, 2012, 12:44 PM
Vinny, I did some tests today and my ct 22 without DD on Sys5 has more suction, BUT the ct 22 with DD on Sys5 has mad suction. I have a board that is marked that the ct 22 could pick up when I first installed the long life bag. The ct 22 with DD on Sys5 couldnt pick up that board, but could pick up one its size that was 1/2 instead of 3/4. Ive been using it for four years and never had a problem with suction, but if I did it again I would use that stock systainer part as Vinny did, keep sucking, Eric
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: VSM_4 on July 07, 2012, 09:00 PM
Eric,

That sounds like a good test.  I will try it tomorrow to see if there how much loss of suction I'm getting. 

I have been using it with the TS55 today, and even if the suction is less, it isn't enough to affect performance. 
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: VSM_4 on July 07, 2012, 09:01 PM
this thread also seems like it would be a good candidate for the Systainer subsection
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: ericbuggeln on July 07, 2012, 09:22 PM
Vinny, im stoked to see that worked out for you, now clean up that mess, dude! Eric
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: GuyRogers on September 14, 2021, 03:51 AM
Hello all
I appreciate this is a very old post.
I am very new to festool.

I love this setup by vinny.
Can anyone tell me:
Re dust cyclone…. Can you detach lid and rest upside down in systainer for transport?
Is there a systainer available that I could buy that would have a drawer section underneath for sanding disks storage (in same systainer). I am looking at the dust commander (with mounting seal). Only dims I can find is that it’s 310mm high. It’s prob a copy of the one you are using. I would also buy the pep lid insert by Tanos.  I am in Uk if that makes any difference.
Any help is much appreciated.
Cheers.
Guy
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Svar on September 14, 2021, 04:47 PM
Re dust cyclone…. Can you detach lid and rest upside down in systainer for transport?
Is there a systainer available that I could buy that would have a drawer section underneath for sanding disks storage (in same systainer).
Lid is detachable, but not easily. I.e. you won't do it on regular basis without some modification.
There are systainers with a drawer underneath.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Paul_HKI on September 14, 2021, 06:32 PM
Hi Guy,


Welcome to FOG. 


I have a Dust Commander DLX and a newer MK II version of same.  Mine are mounted on drums, but I measured up at one stage after reading this thread, to see what might be involved.


If you want to fit it to a removable top for a Systainer and invert it for storage purposes, you'll need to mount it to a piece of plywood and sit that into the top of an open systainer, likely on a mounting flange of some sort.  You could then lift it out, turn it upside down and close the systainer lid for storage/transportation.


The main thing to note is that the DLX will need a no. 5 sized systainer, without a doubt, if you mount it this way.  The no. 4 size is far too small.


In my case it just wasn't worth the effort and expense.  I just put a separator in each of the two locations where I'd use one.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: derekcohen on October 22, 2021, 08:20 PM
Several years ago, I used a Dust Commander into a sealable paint tin, which was secured to a small Systainer on a Festool CT26e ….

(https://i.postimg.cc/TP8mgZzX/M1.jpg)

The Systainer was useful to store items, such as the transformer for a Mirka Ceros …

(https://i.postimg.cc/fLD9gYW2/M5.jpg)

Today there is a different type of Systainer on the CT26e …

(https://i.postimg.cc/TY039Ycg/DD2.jpg)

:)

Regards from Perth

Derek
Title: Re: Has anyone tried to use a Systainer as the dust box for a cyclone?
Post by: Paul_HKI on October 23, 2021, 05:52 AM
Hi Derek,


Any comments or feedback regarding the comparative performance of the Dust Deputy and Dust Commander separators?  Were they functional equivalents in separation, or did you see any notable differences?  The convenience of the Oneida left aside, I'd be interested in your thoughts as I know you pay attention to such things!


All the best from the home of Mirka,


Paul