Author Topic: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide  (Read 26133 times)

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Online Cheese

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2020, 11:58 AM »
I would be very curious to know what TSO found issues with.  I think this tool (I have the MKII) is a fine tool.  As I was using it today I was wondering what else they might come up with in the future.  The only thing I am concerned about is the sticks themselves.  I hope the holes in them don't start wondering at some point.  Just feels like that might happen, but I hope not.

In the original version the yoke was not bushed, but rather it was just an anodized aluminum surface rubbing against a steel alignment rod. Premature wear of the yoke was a result and this sometimes caused a difficult plunging action. Here's a shot, in order, of the top and the bottom view of the aluminum yoke.






The new version has Oilite style bushings which should eliminate the issue provided the proper geometry is maintained during machining. 




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Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2020, 01:00 PM »
I would be very curious to know what TSO found issues with.  I think this tool (I have the MKII) is a fine tool.  As I was using it today I was wondering what else they might come up with in the future.  The only thing I am concerned about is the sticks themselves.  I hope the holes in them don't start wondering at some point.  Just feels like that might happen, but I hope not.

@Rick Herrick - considering that AXMINSTER had launched an earllier version of the Drill Guide only to pull it from the market because of customer satisfaction issues, we expecte the much delayed replacement product to be "spot-on".

Instead we were surprised that once again there were customer complaints from the very beginning on this new product and AXMISNTER again pulled it off the marktet (temporarily).

It's public knowledge that this product is not manufactured by AXMINSTER. What unsettled us was that the re-launch of the product did not have AXMINSTER catching some pretty apparent problems at the source. Like a rubbery base cover glued onto the diecast base which resulted in unsatisfactory stability among some other less visible issues.

It is easy to find faults but much harder to do better in the first place. AXMINSTER are good people as we know from up close and personal experience. We have shared with senior management that outstanding customer service is not a substitue for solid product design or manufacturing quality.

To AXMINSTER's credit, their sizeable organization is becoming more responsive.  Since the generational change in leadership a year ago, we have more regular highlevel contacts where our feedback and your feedback relayed by us, is heard!

Hans

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2020, 01:11 PM »
Snip.
We have shared with senior management that outstanding customer service is not a substitue for solid product design or manufacturing quality.
Hans
Business wisdom well stated.

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2020, 01:20 PM »
@TSO_Products .  Thanks for the info Hans.  I realize you and your team have a boatload more experience with these vendors and products.  You mention different versions of the product and their issues.  My only knowledge is the original and then the updated MKII version.  I have heard so many good reviews of both, especially the newer MKII.  The fact that no one can keep them in stock would suggest, at least to rookies like me, that it is a great product but I realize there could be other reasons for this.

I have drilled more than 2 full 4x8 sheets of holes and I am very happy with the results.  If your work with them can help make the product better, I applaud you.  Its a cool tool and the more I use it, the better I get at understanding how to use it. I say that because on this last table I basically divided up the 4x8 sheet into sections and the holes (20mm) were done at several different times.  I did do the 3mm holes across the entire table in one pass though. 

I think I have mentioned that the biggest issue for me is the holes in the sticks.  Not confident that their accuracy and 'roundness' will last a long time.  I also wish I could get spare parts easily.  Every time I pull out the 3 - 3mm pins, I get OCD making sure I don't leave them anywhere where they could get lost or broken.

Thanks again for your help in making it better.

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2020, 01:35 PM »
@TSO_Products .  Thanks for the info Hans.  I realize you and your team have a boatload more experience with these vendors and products.  You mention different versions of the product and their issues.  My only knowledge is the original and then the updated MKII version.  I have heard so many good reviews of both, especially the newer MKII.  The fact that no one can keep them in stock would suggest, at least to rookies like me, that it is a great product but I realize there could be other reasons for this.

Thanks again for your help in making it better.

@Rick Herrick - now I get it: you, understandably -  as a relative FOG newcomer, were misled by the FOG thread title to believe it had to do with hole drilling using the PARF GUIDE series AXMINSTER UJK products which is the topic of a number of other FOG Threads - but not this one. [cool]

This thread actually deals with an entirely different tool as you can see in some earlier pictures and a placeholder image from our website of an earlier version:
https://tsoproducts.com/brands/UJK-Technologies.html

now this should make sense to both if us  [wink]

Hans


Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2020, 01:42 PM »
@TSO_Products .  Hans, I appreciate the kind way you handled that... [big grin]

I am more than slightly embarrassed I didn't catch that..  Sorry folks.

Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2020, 10:26 AM »
Anyone here get the Rockler email today advertising their new drill guide? $149 and aside from color and it only has one drill stop collar looks identical to the forever out of stock UJK guide.


Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2020, 12:07 PM »
After what Hans wrote, it seems Rockler decided it was "good enough".

I know I'd wait for a "Hans approved" release.  [big grin]

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2020, 12:34 PM »
@six-point socket II

exactly what I was thinking Oliver. One thing I know about Hans is he won't sell anything that isnt a quality product. Thats what sometimes takes him so long to release a product for us to buy. He doesnt do "good enough"

Ill wait for Hans to sell it

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2020, 08:29 PM »
Anyone here get the Rockler email today advertising their new drill guide? $149 and aside from color and it only has one drill stop collar looks identical to the forever out of stock UJK guide.

Does look very similar but I don't remember the UJK version having the storage for the hex wrench and chuck key in the base.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2020, 09:51 PM »
Friends -
as many of you understand, the AXMINSTER version Drill Guide is made in Taiwan. That manufacturer, like many in Taiwan and China, specializes in a particular type of tool or machine. They then customize their line to a degree dictated by the foreign buyer (US or other country) importer. This customization aims to make each importers product appear unique in the market.

Nothing new about that. Just look at stationary woodworking powertools. It's done with automobile engines and entire cars,too.

You need to understand that the days are long gone where Taiwan or China did not have the technical capability to make very sophisiticated products extremely well. The variables in outcome:
       1. VOLUME ! ! !  AND the profit margins (think APPLE, and all higher end electronics...)
       2. the end users un- or willingness to pay for quality level and features
       3. the importers un- or willingness to manage the sourcing process from the beginning to delivery based on profitability.

On both counts, it is the importer who controls the level of quality, features and proper execution by limiting the spend up front in order to meet a particular "Price point" and also to minimize the importers costs by exerting minimum to zero importer's oversight over the whole process.

Easy to criticise the importer (many of the big names). Just look at the murderous competition and low margins in stationary powertool pricing. The Importers respond to their customers: major retailers and, ultimately of course, you, the end customer.

When you read here on the FOG the lengths to which some folks go to get the 'Cheapest price" - well then, as an importer and retailer you'll offer what the customer buys.

And that discourages many well known brands from going too far up the quality and features menu.

This is the long way of saying there is a BIG market for "good enough", and a progressively smaller market for "no compromise and no excuses" - which is where TSO has chosen to be.

I would be less than candid if I didn't tell you the ROCKLER product mirrors in a good number of ways what AXMINSTER has been struggling to bring to market.  It also gives you an idea why we continue to hesitate until we see a product version that meets OUR expectations.

In the end, the customer's buying behavior drives it all. That's you and me. - think about it as you calibrate your expectations for a product or service.[wink]

Hans


Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2020, 09:47 AM »
Thanks Hans! Great presentation of quality vs demand vs price etc. I went ahead and ordered the Rockler version and will test it out. If it doesn't do what I need it to do I will gladly sell it and buy the UJK version once it becomes available again. I boubht the original UJK version and frankly don't use it as a piece of the shaft that sticks into the drill broke off and beyond that the quality just wasn't there. Difficult to set up (getting the chuck holder to move up and down the posts smoothly). The new version with the bushings should be a much better option. I have a lot of TSO AND UJK tools and their quality, notwithstanding the first iteration of the UJK drill guide, is uncompromising!

Jack

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2020, 10:05 AM »
@Claimdude - thank you for your comment. I am making an effort to provide perspective which some our FOG members may not be aware of. I realize for more than a few it will be well understood already.

Let me know when the Rockler Drill Guide has arrived. Email me directly with your phone number  noting your FOG handle so I can connect the dots.

Hans
hans@tsoproducts.com

Online Cheese

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2020, 11:06 AM »
I bought the original UJK version and frankly don't use it as a piece of the shaft that sticks into the drill broke off and beyond that the quality just wasn't there. Difficult to set up (getting the chuck holder to move up and down the posts smoothly).

FWIW...along with the wear/scoring issues on the original UJK drill stand because of the lack of Oilite bushings, there were also issues with the parallelism of the support rods. I had to shim one of the rods over .010" in order to have the chuck move up and down smoothly.

So with the support rods not being parallel to each other combined with the softness of the aluminum against the steel rods, with continued use things just got worse and worse until the drill stand was rendered useless.

I anticipate the Oilite bushings will make a huge difference in the smoothness of the movement of the yoke, however, that's the reason for the caveat in my prior answer.

"The new version has Oilite style bushings which should eliminate the issue provided the proper geometry is maintained during machining". 



« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 11:09 AM by Cheese »

Offline Svar

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2020, 12:12 PM »
@Cheese
Does chuck rotates on bronze bushings on UJK stand? Rockler version has ball bearings.

@Claimdude
Does Rockler stand indeed has some kind of bushings sliding along the rods? It's hard to see in their video.

Online Cheese

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2020, 12:14 PM »
Svar, on the UJK I have it rotated on a bronze/Oilite.

Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2020, 02:08 PM »
One of the photos appears to steel bearings.

Jack



@Cheese
Does chuck rotates on bronze bushings on UJK stand? Rockler version has ball bearings.

@Claimdude
Does Rockler stand indeed has some kind of bushings sliding along the rods? It's hard to see in their video.

Offline TinyShop

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2020, 08:57 PM »
I've submitted a question on the Rockler site requesting more info on the compositions of the bushings used. Will report back with the answer I receive.
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2020, 08:47 PM »
So I see the UJK Drill Guide now shows as available at the Axminster website but due to it having "hazardous" material they won't outside the UK! Seriously folks!!! I don't want a can of chemicals just a hardware only drill guide....

Hans, HELP!

Jack

Offline big K

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #79 on: July 03, 2020, 05:59 PM »
Make it 4 for Big Gator...I also have their ANSI tap guide, it's slick.  [cool]

I will have to look for that. I have often wondered why no one made such a guide, and using a drill press and turning the chuck with tap inserted by hand gets real tedious.

Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #80 on: July 03, 2020, 10:44 PM »
Oops! Well, in addition to the photo of trees I uploaded here are the pics of the Rockler Drill Guide ;-)

So, I unboxed my drill guide from Rockler today and aside from the color and only one stop it could be a UJK drill guide. Here is a pic. I took a few more but can't find them at the moment. They used some king of bearings to glide on, action is smooth, etc. We'll see.

Jack
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:03 AM by Claimdude »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #81 on: July 04, 2020, 04:17 AM »
I love the trees!  [tongue]

Offline Euclid

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2020, 07:00 AM »
The trees are just "projects in waiting"...

I've been pleased with my UJK drill guide (latest version, I think); and the finish seems good, so maybe there is a little variability here?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:04 AM by Euclid »

Offline Claimdude

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2020, 07:04 AM »
Jiggy and Joiner are quite funny  8) [blink]

Jack

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #84 on: July 04, 2020, 08:35 AM »
Jiggy and Joiner are quite funny  8) [blink]

Jack

 [big grin]  [wink]

It does look similar to the UJK version but, with differences. Just yesterday I was in an Axminster store, and had their version in my hands.
The chuck bearings look different, and couple of other things but, you can bet your Rockler version is a big improvement on the early UJK version.
I was told yesterday, all the issues on the UJK are now sorted.
It seemed very smooth in movement, although so did the early version when new.
Anyway, good luck with the Rockler, I think it will be fine.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 09:13 AM by Jiggy Joiner »

Online Cheese

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2020, 10:56 AM »
So, I unboxed my drill guide from Rockler today and aside from the color and only one stop it could be a UJK drill guide.

That Rockler item is a huge improvement over the original UJK unit.   [cool]   The vertical rods on the Rockler are no longer able to travel through the base...that's a good thing.  On the original UJK, the rods could be lowered through holes in the base and then retightened with set screws. That caused the rods to look like this.




And because there were no Oilite bearings used in the aluminum yoke, wear was an issue




Consequently, 6 nylon setscrews with locknuts were utilized to eliminate the slop in the worn rod/yoke assembly.


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #86 on: July 04, 2020, 11:26 AM »
Got an email from Harvey Tool this morning in reply to my complaint that dimensions are missing from so many tool descriptions at their version of the Bridge City Tool website.

The email said Harvey makes tools for Grizzly and Axminster and others. Didn’t say which tools but this Rockler tool looks pretty good and not unlike their work.

Offline Svar

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Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2020, 12:42 PM »
Jiggy and Joiner are quite funny  8) [blink]
Jack
[big grin]  [wink]
It does look similar to the UJK version but, with differences.
Agreed. What Claimdude posted appears to be Quercus rubra (NA red oak). A UK based UJK version would have been Quercus robur (English or European oak). Both of the same genus.

But back to the drill guide. If there is no wobble in the bushings and chuck, and rods are parallel, then that is a great tool.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1094
Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2020, 02:20 PM »
Jiggy and Joiner are quite funny  8) [blink]
Jack
[big grin]  [wink]
It does look similar to the UJK version but, with differences.
Agreed. What Claimdude posted appears to be Quercus rubra (NA red oak). A UK based UJK version would have been Quercus robur (English or European oak). Both of the same genus.

But back to the drill guide. If there is no wobble in the bushings and chuck, and rods are parallel, then that is a great tool.

 [big grin] [big grin] [thumbs up]

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 445
Re: Drill Perfect Holes With The New UJK Technology Drill Guide
« Reply #89 on: July 04, 2020, 03:53 PM »
Just in case folks missed it, the UJK (and I guess by extension the Rockler) drill stand (1st and 2nd generations) has been discussed at length elsewhere on the FOG (beginning at Post #55) :

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-drill-stand/30/
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin