Author Topic: CMS router table fence improvements ( micro adjust using crown stop) "updated" (Read 72709 times)

Benjamin · « **on:** August 20, 2014, 10:21 PM »

Just like JohnymanyB me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table, as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons ) but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.

neilc · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:34 PM »

That's really a simple but effective approach.

Thanks for sharing the thinking and photos.

One question - effectively with this approach, you have to micro adjust ANY movement in the fence - there is no way as you have designed it to rapid adjust, or does the Woodpecker offer a fast advance option by chance?

neil

Benjamin · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:44 PM »

yes , interesting that you say that, what we ordered today was a crank handle ( similar to what you see on a table or band saw ) so when that comes in we want to attach it to the knob and were hoping this will speed the motion up hugely ,

as the crack is 4" wide so it will move 4X the rate , Cause remember most of a the motion is either moving the fence to switch a cutter or do some adjustment, so the fence really only has to move 3-4" one way or another to be effective .

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/3126310?searchMode=productSearch&zipcode=&filterByStore=&filterByVendingMachine=

jonmannyb · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM »

I really love your design. It's so much cleaner than mine. FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy. This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body. The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation. I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job. I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about. Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking. What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment. Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it. Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?

Sparktrician · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM »

I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?

neilc · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:34 PM »

Jon - yes you read my question correctly, and I like your suggested approach as one way to enable a rapid adjust option.

neil

supimeister · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2014, 08:51 PM »

I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Benjamin · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:32 PM »

Quote from: jonmannyb on August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM

I really love your design. It's so much cleaner than mine. FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy. This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body. The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation. I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job. I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about. Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking. What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment. Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it. Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?

Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results

Benjamin · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM

I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Benjamin · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2014, 03:49 AM »

Quote from: supimeister on August 23, 2014, 08:51 PM

I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Yes the VL would probably be easier in the sense that you can use the dog holes of the mft to easily install and keep sq your micro adjust , I would just buy wood peckers micro adjust and try to install it to something like one of theses mounting plates that pop in the mft and then you could use your element clamps knobs to hold it down real fast and securely

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70864&cat=1,43838,70865

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2014, 04:07 AM »

Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Sparktrician · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Benjamin · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2014, 09:17 AM »

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on August 24, 2014, 04:07 AM

Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry I just didn't put them in before I took my photo graphs . yes I still use the one knob for extra security ,but you just unscrew it a turn and then you can micro adjust all you want.

Ben

richk · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2014, 10:16 AM »

If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

Sparktrician · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2014, 12:43 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM

Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

Benjamin · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 25, 2014, 12:43 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Benjamin · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2014, 11:57 PM »

Quote from: richk on August 24, 2014, 10:16 AM

If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

yes I think this could be a good possibility as well. I just didn't want to have so much length hanging out the back of the table so I choose the wood pecker micro adjust instead for its petit size. Id like to see some one do it and get back to us on how it works.

I also didn't want to spend 4x the amount as the wood pecker

Sparktrician · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2014, 05:24 PM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman. He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work. Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another. It worked just about right. One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end. No clamps are needed. There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed. I may leave it on because it works well in my shop.

Benjamin · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2014, 11:16 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 28, 2014, 05:24 PM

Quote from: Benjamin on August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman. He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work. Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another. It worked just about right. One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end. No clamps are needed. There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed. I may leave it on because it works well in my shop.

pretty cool

jonmannyb · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2014, 07:18 AM »

Thanks for the Pics. This is a really cool and efficient concept. I'll definitely update my setup using a lot of your concepts.

Thanks again.
Jon

jonmannyb · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2014, 09:44 PM »

Hi Benjamin,

I'm actually looking to update my mod to the CMS using a lot of your ideas. Can you please clarify the whole set up you have with the right angle attachment into the back of the CMS? I see you have some sort of rubber sleeve over the male end of the back of the
CMS fence. I went ahead and picked up the "Anti-Static Angle Adaptor (part 456 806)". I just got it from Amazon and realized that it only fits the 27mm hose and not the 36mm.

Can you please tell me how you were able to attach the 36mm hose onto this Angle Adaptor, and where I can purchase that rubber looking sleeve that goes over the male end of the CMS fence?

Benjamin · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2014, 10:00 PM »

Hi Jon,

Sorry to tell you , you need to get the new tapered hose right angle end, as it is wide enough to fit around the 36mm hose snugly.

part #499907

and the stuff around the cms fence is the non skid tape that is used on the tracks. any weather stripping could be used as well.

best of luck.

jonmannyb · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2014, 11:35 PM »

So sorry to bug you on this Benjamin and thanks so much for the prompt response. I just checked for that 499907 part and I can't seem to locate it in the 2014 catalog. I'm also Googling it and nothing is showing up. Is this a part I have to get directly from festool and just double checking if that's the correct part number.

Thanks so much again.

Benjamin · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:31 PM »

no that part number is the one Shane ( site moderator here ) gave me when I asked him for it.

I got my dealer to order me 2 of them and they got them in for me.

no problem , you can ask me any questions you'd like.

jonmannyb · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:59 PM »

Thanks so much for all your help. I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part. I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites. No problem. I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle. This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again.

PreferrablyWood · « **Reply #25 on:** October 04, 2014, 03:59 AM »

This is a really nice thread on making a compact solution to the fence adjust problems mentioned about the router module for CMS. I'm putting the CMS back on my list because of it, will likely get the CMS GE + OF2200 kit offered here in Germany and Denmark oh and have to budget for the Woodpecker micro adjust fence.. The Accesories systainer for the OF2200 and som bits, shall be say I'll be suited out by 2018?

Benjamin · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2014, 08:56 PM »

Quote from: jonmannyb on October 03, 2014, 08:59 PM

Thanks so much for all your help. I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part. I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites. No problem. I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle. This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again.

strange ..... I just got 3 of them?

any ways best of luck

Charles Sharpe · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2014, 01:12 PM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 20, 2014, 10:21 PM

Sorry for delay in saying thank you for all the info but Ive not been very well.

Charles.
just like JohnymanyB me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table, as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons ) but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.

ChipMonk · « **Reply #28 on:** January 03, 2016, 03:40 PM »

Thanks for sharing your CMS mod Benjamin.

Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow (Angle piece D 32/27 DAG/90°-AS Part Number 499907) or explain how the elbow connects to a D 36 hose.

According to Festool catalogs and websites the 499907 fits only 27mm hose.
https://www.festool.com/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=499907&name=Hose-sleeves-D-32-27-DAG-90-AS

SMJoinery · « **Reply #29 on:** January 03, 2016, 04:36 PM »

Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott

GarryMartin · « **Reply #30 on:** January 03, 2016, 04:52 PM »

Quote from: ChipMonk on January 03, 2016, 03:40 PM

Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow...

It's actually all detailed in another post.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/festool-36mm-right-angle-hose-adapter/

ChipMonk · « **Reply #31 on:** January 03, 2016, 11:57 PM »

Thanks for the link Garry, much appreciated.

rst · « **Reply #32 on:** January 04, 2016, 12:09 PM »

Onieda http://www.oneida-air.com/ look under Dust Deputy accessories they sell anti staic fittings, including 90 degree and hose.

ChipMonk · « **Reply #33 on:** January 05, 2016, 01:08 AM »

Thanks rst, that would be great if the size would fit.

Can someone please measure the OD an ID of the CMS fence dust port.

The dimensions of the Oneida DD elbow (AXD600103) I have are:
52mm ID / 58mm OD on the straight wider end
44mm ID / 49-54mm OD on the tapered end.

The standard 36mm hose end (487721 - D 36 DM-AS Reducing Sleeve) fits perfectly inside the elbow's tapered end.

rst · « **Reply #34 on:** January 05, 2016, 07:24 AM »

The fittings will work, they are the same ones used with the Dust Deputy, just leave the original Festool end on.

iamnothim · « **Reply #35 on:** April 30, 2016, 02:29 PM »

Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream. Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent. The product website says it's "New". Hmmmmm it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing...... Like it did today. Sorry for the logic attack.

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route. Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.

vogel61 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 01, 2016, 07:52 AM »

Quote from: SMJoinery on January 03, 2016, 04:36 PM

Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott

Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

Kev · « **Reply #37 on:** May 01, 2016, 09:32 AM »

Quote from: iamnothim on April 30, 2016, 02:29 PM

Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream. Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent. The product website says it's "New". Hmmmmm it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing...... Like it did today. Sorry for the logic attack.

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route. Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.

@iamnothim I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?

iamnothim · « **Reply #38 on:** May 01, 2016, 10:40 AM »

Quote from: vogel61 on May 01, 2016, 07:52 AM

Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk

Hi Richard,
That's a creative good solution but I'm an all or nothing guy.
Luke

iamnothim · « **Reply #39 on:** May 01, 2016, 10:44 AM »

Quote from: Kev on May 01, 2016, 09:32 AM

I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?

Kev,
Ya. It's all about what's in the "Leather" I was searching yesterday for that "thingy" and couldn't find it. Thanks for posting the name. (Precision Plate) Man I want one real bad. It's crazy how sloppy the CMS fence is. Very Un-Festool.

Here's the link to Brian's thread.... @bkharmon Incra fence mounting plate for the MFT

Luke

tjbnwi · « **Reply #40 on:** June 25, 2016, 03:10 PM »

Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route.

New hole location.

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface.

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut.

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts.

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod.

Tom

PreferrablyWood · « **Reply #41 on:** June 25, 2016, 04:22 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on June 25, 2016, 03:10 PM

Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)

Tom

Not owning the CMS GE just yet I've been speculating about the issue with the Fence, I'd thought about something that looks like what you created would be a good solution. And now you've done it. I will give this idea a try in the next few months..

Thanks

richk · « **Reply #42 on:** June 25, 2016, 05:58 PM »

I have the CMS-GE and share the frustration about the fence. Here is the solution I'm working on:

Use a Fastcap Kapex table mount (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=54411) to attach 2 feet of Fastcap Best Fence (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=42614). Then attach an Incra LS Positioner with a Wonderfence ( http://incra.com/router_table_fences-ls_super_sys.html) to what is effectively an extension of the CMS table. That will be further supported by a Fastcap Upper Hand, which is essentially a collapsible leg.

Don't know for sure how it will work out, but the pieces are on order...

RichK

rizzoa13 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 25, 2016, 09:11 PM »

As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

PreferrablyWood · « **Reply #44 on:** June 26, 2016, 03:28 AM »

Quote from: rizzoa13 on June 25, 2016, 09:11 PM

As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

I'm looking at this and it seems to me the CMS GE and the Incra positioner super fence gets a little to bulky, If I need the Incra positioner and it to be portable, I think I would just make my own table for it built from the ground up to be a portable Incra setup..

richk · « **Reply #45 on:** June 26, 2016, 10:33 AM »

PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.

PreferrablyWood · « **Reply #46 on:** June 26, 2016, 11:05 AM »

Quote from: richk on June 26, 2016, 10:33 AM

PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.

I can see the logic then in a fixed location, it's easy to just stow things up out of the way, high on a wall. I'm going to moving to different locations, so I'd be a little concerned about taking the delicate looking Incra position out from place to place. To Bad Festool doesn't meet the need and come up with a more compact fence but with some of the Incra features, perhaps making it work together with the sliding side fence.

cpap · « **Reply #47 on:** July 12, 2016, 09:54 PM »

Thank you for the great idea Benjamin! Just finished up setting my CMS with the WP micro adjust. It works amazingly well. Such an improvement.

A few subtle differences in the way I mounted mine:
-I tapped holes in the crown stop so that the bolts thread directly to it.
-I also tapped the back of the fence for the long 6" bolts to attach to.
-I used a 1-1/2" Fernco rubber 90 deg to slip over the back of the fence port and hose end. It's a perfect fit.

For an extra $100 or so, it makes a lot of sense to do this mod.

ILovewood · « **Reply #48 on:** July 14, 2016, 10:11 AM »

Just saw your project. Great idea. I have also looked at the Woodpecker micro adjuster. Very versatile.

rst · « **Reply #49 on:** July 14, 2016, 01:47 PM »

Great use of the Woodpeckers adjuster and realizing that the crown stop would work for attaching it to the table. I really need to learn to download and attach pictures...I attached two CMS-VLs together with a section between that I put tee slots in so I could move the Woodpecker in and out and use it on either side. Again my apologies for the teaser, I've been asked numerous times for pictures, it's just that lack of learning curve time has prevented my sharing.

kieran989 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 23, 2017, 01:22 AM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:32 PM

Quote from: jonmannyb on August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM
I really love your design. It's so much cleaner than mine. FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy. This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body. The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation. I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job. I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about. Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking. What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment. Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it. Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?

Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results

Hi Ben,

Did you ever impliment your other idea?

kieran989 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 23, 2017, 07:50 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on June 25, 2016, 03:10 PM

Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)

Tom

How does the angle heads actually attach to the fence here?

Did you find a way to incorporate the micro adjust?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #52 on:** July 23, 2017, 08:21 AM »

The arms from the angle head attach to the fence, the head itself does not. The head attaches to the v-grove as it normally would.

I believe so, work keeps getting in the way of working on the solution.

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #53 on:** January 02, 2018, 04:53 PM »

Again--thanks to Benjamin for the inspiration.

This is my take 2, stoled more of Bens idea.

What I did not like about my mod was the clunkiness of the moment. Never did get around to trying a rack and pinion.

What I did not like about Bens system was the lack of coarse adjustment.

I square the fence using the TSO MTR off the edge of the table. A little more effort and I probably could have fit the adjuster to the channels better to keep it square.

I believe I've solved both issues.

Rough adjustment and fine adjustment.

Fast movement of fence with the fine adjust.

Tom

onevw · « **Reply #54 on:** June 08, 2018, 07:19 PM »

Many thanks for these post on using the Woodpecker micro adjust with the CMS.

I was looking for a way to make fine adjustment in the fence on my CMS Router.

So I have come up with this set up. I still need to finish the 2 inch aluminum channel ,and install the adjustment knobs.

rst · « **Reply #55 on:** June 09, 2018, 09:21 AM »

I used a similar system for my dual CMS setup.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #56 on:** June 09, 2018, 11:02 AM »

I’ve found that if you remove the tool end cuff from the 36mm gray hose, the hose will plug into the back of the fence without the need for adapters on my set up.

Tom

onevw · « **Reply #57 on:** June 10, 2018, 10:34 AM »

Quote from: onevw on June 08, 2018, 07:19 PM

Many thanks for these post on using the Woodpecker micro adjust with the CMS.

I was looking for a way to make fine adjustment in the fence on my CMS Router.

So I have come up with this set up. I still need to finish the 2 inch aluminum channel ,and install the adjustment knobs.

I am now thinking about just installing threaded inserts in the extension table to secure the Woodpecker unit to the table. I think I will only need these inserts in two locations back from the router head.

But this system would take more time to move out of the way to acces the router bit.

Rick

tjbnwi · « **Reply #58 on:** June 10, 2018, 03:53 PM »

Quote from: onevw on June 10, 2018, 10:34 AM

Quote from: onevw on June 08, 2018, 07:19 PM
Many thanks for these post on using the Woodpecker micro adjust with the CMS.

I was looking for a way to make fine adjustment in the fence on my CMS Router.

So I have come up with this set up. I still need to finish the 2 inch aluminum channel ,and install the adjustment knobs.

I am now thinking about just installing threaded inserts in the extension table to secure the Woodpecker unit to the table. I think I will only need these inserts in two locations back from the router head.

But this system would take more time to move out of the way to acces the router bit.

Rick

I have found, most times I can move the sliding fence out and access the bit. It’s pretty rare I have to move the fence back to change the bit.

Tom

onevw · « **Reply #59 on:** June 10, 2018, 04:06 PM »

Quote from: onevw on June 10, 2018, 10:34 AM

Quote from: onevw on June 08, 2018, 07:19 PM
Many thanks for these post on using the Woodpecker micro adjust with the CMS.

I was looking for a way to make fine adjustment in the fence on my CMS Router.

So I have come up with this set up. I still need to finish the 2 inch aluminum channel ,and install the adjustment knobs.

New set up using festool parts??

I am now thinking about just installing threaded inserts in the extension table to secure the Woodpecker unit to the table. I think I will only need these inserts in two locations back from the router head.

But this system would take more time to move out of the way to acces the router bit.

Rick

onevw · « **Reply #60 on:** June 10, 2018, 08:46 PM »

New setup ma-bee

cabissi · « **Reply #61 on:** July 25, 2018, 08:01 PM »

Does anyone know how to remove the knurled knob from the Micro Adjust and how the 4” wheel attaches? Woodpecker told me that it could not be removed. Pictures would be greatly appreciated.

Any explanation at all would be helpful. I am rather new to woodworking, but I would very much like to complete the enhanced CMS modification described to Benjamin’s post.

CADru · « **Reply #62 on:** March 26, 2019, 12:06 AM »

Finished my version of the Woodpecker Micro-Adjust mod for my Festool CMS Router table.

The 3/4” Baltic Birch seat bolts to the crown stop which provides the major adjustment feature of the micro adjust via integrated T-tracks. Once I had my crown stop set, I scribed a small reference into the top for alignment with centering protrusion on crown stop. This will help when re-attaching in the field. I filled all the scribe (reference) layout marks on the aluminum top with a black permanent sharpie. This greatly improves visibility.

Did not agree with the crown stop connection being fixed tightly enough (the knob bottoms out too soon) so I extended the threaded shaft. I drilled and tapped the plastic thread shaft to accept a 10-32 x 5/8” pan head machine screw. This screw bottoms out on the end of the center bolt within the knob. I set this screw in epoxy. The additional 1/4” gives me a tighter crown stop to V-rail connection without the knob bottoming out.
Threaded rods are 1/4-20, was thinking I’d up it to 5/16” if the 1/4” rod flexed to much after assembly. By default, the Woodpecker Micro Adjust fence section accepts the 1/4-20 rod. I think the 1/4” rod is stable enough.

To provide for a smooth (minimal resistance) micro adjust movement I set elevations for crown stop plywood seat to accept a spacer between top of (blue) T-track and underside of the Woodpecker T-track. The moving fence section (when micro adjusting) does not slide/ride contact the plywood seat.
The lines on the plywood seat are on 1” centers and are simply for a parallel reference when making a major adjustment of fence. Used a marking knife to score the lines. Traced the knife marks with a pencil then applied a couple coats of spar poly via spray can.

For transport my break down point is at the end of the threaded rod where it connects to micro adjust fence. The jam-nut system on the Festool fence side of the threaded rod is set with Loctite Permatex Red (them babies aren’t moving). This keeps the micro adjust fence parallel to the Festool router table fence for disassembly/assembly.

Thank you @Benjamin for this upgrade idea, works great!

DynaGlide · « **Reply #63 on:** March 26, 2019, 10:43 AM »

@CADru Very nicely done. When are you making another one... You know, as an extra to ship for evaluation purposes?

CADru · « **Reply #64 on:** March 31, 2019, 07:30 PM »

Thanks @DynaGlide the mod works well. Hmmm prototype for eval, wouldn't that be nice... for you that is

. I think I started this project 3 months ago. Finally got some down time to complete.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #65 on:** May 06, 2019, 08:35 AM »

I liked @CADru design enough to copy it. The benefit of not having to use two of the Festool knobs to lock the fence down is pretty big in and of itself. Makes swapping the reducing ring out easier.

CADru · « **Reply #66 on:** May 06, 2019, 06:56 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on May 06, 2019, 08:35 AM

Makes swapping the reducing ring out easier.

Nice job @DynaGlide cool design

. Ditto on swapping reducing ring. Slight upgrade to my version. Sleeved the exposed threads on the all-thread with 1/4" rubber vacuum hose. Also added caps to the rod ends. I had white in stock, need to get some black ones

.

It's a positive improvement to the router table. I have put it to use on a couple projects and dialing in the setup is much easier now.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #67 on:** May 07, 2019, 12:28 PM »

Got the hose hooked up and an easier to use lock down knob. Green for adjustable.

CADru · « **Reply #68 on:** May 08, 2019, 07:18 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on May 07, 2019, 12:28 PM

Got the hose hooked up and an easier to use lock down knob. Green for adjustable.

Well played @DynaGlide ...hmmm where have I seen that color green before

Do share part numbers/info on knob and what did you use for your fence hose adapter? Looks like you are using the stock extraction hose setup keeping the 36mm end at the fence. I switched out the 27mm straight with a 90 deg fitting and used the anti slip guide rail material as gasket on the fence out port. Now my 36mm hose section connects to router. Would like to get the 36mm back to the fence.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #69 on:** May 08, 2019, 07:23 PM »

I solved the hose issue by removing the cuff. The hose fits snuggly in the port.

Tom

DynaGlide · « **Reply #70 on:** May 09, 2019, 08:42 AM »

@CADru

Unfortunately the knob itself is 3D Printed. It was intended to be used with a 3d printed fence dog. It and the dog were made by a member here @sprior but for this application I don't think it would be cost effective. I already had it and I wasn't using it and it just happened to have the correct M6 size hex for capturing either an M6 nut or hex bolt head. I painfully broke apart the Festool supplied knob to get the M6 stud out and with a pair of M6 nuts made myself the one you see. They sell M6 star knobs on Amazon, McMaster Carr, etc. Could easily make something up for yourself.

The hose adapter was mentioned earlier in this thread. It's a 1.5"x1.5" Fernco 90 degree elbow from Home Depot. It's a rubber material and fits nicely inside the CMS Fence. The 36mm hose end you have to shove into the other end of the elbow but it stays put. About $7 and they stocked it at my store. Link

I do like being able to quickly undo the green knob and the Woodpecker knobs and slide the fence out to change bits/insert rings and get it back to where it was without much fuss.

sprior · « **Reply #71 on:** May 09, 2019, 10:54 AM »

As @DynaGlide mentioned, the knob was 3D printed and is one of the designs I shared here on Thingiverse. The 3Dprinter filament was Neon Green from Makerbot, but they're crazy expensive these days and I'd use instead eSun Peak Green.

rst · « **Reply #72 on:** May 10, 2019, 05:23 PM »

I used an a Oneida anti static right angle adapter for mine...

DynaGlide · « **Reply #73 on:** May 18, 2019, 02:43 PM »

As I get cozier with the CMS during a shutter project I'm finding more problems to work around. Today I'm routing some beading and one of the boards has a hefty bow to it. The CMS plastic featherboard doesn't provide nearly enough pressure to keep the board flat to the fence for routing. I have some spare MFT parts and gutted a miter gauge so the little slotted pieces that normally go into the MFT fence are no longer there. It's just a nice flat surface now. I used this to set a more robust featherboard.

Roachmill · « **Reply #74 on:** May 18, 2019, 03:23 PM »

Can't remember where I saw it (I duly ripped off the idea lickety-split!) and screwed a couple of pieces of incra track on to a pair of featherboards. The track slips right on to a protractor giving you adjustable horizontal pressure as and when needed

rst · « **Reply #75 on:** May 18, 2019, 05:14 PM »

That's a great fix Dynaglide...just get some UHMW to attach to that fence and it will be heavenly. UHMW is slippery and as surface hard as stainless.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #76 on:** May 18, 2019, 05:34 PM »

Quote from: rst on May 18, 2019, 05:14 PM

That's a great fix Dynaglide...just get some UHMW to attach to that fence and it will be heavenly. UHMW is slippery and as surface hard as stainless.

I think I'll do just that. Thank you for the idea.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #77 on:** May 18, 2019, 05:43 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on May 18, 2019, 05:34 PM

Quote from: rst on May 18, 2019, 05:14 PM
That's a great fix Dynaglide...just get some UHMW to attach to that fence and it will be heavenly. UHMW is slippery and as surface hard as stainless.

I think I'll do just that. Thank you for the idea.

Woodcraft and Highland Woodworking both sell UHMW.

GarryMartin · « **Reply #78 on:** May 19, 2019, 04:22 AM »

Quote from: Roachmill on May 18, 2019, 03:23 PM

Can't remember where I saw it (I duly ripped off the idea lickety-split!) and screwed a couple of pieces of incra track on to a pair of featherboards. The track slips right on to a protractor giving you adjustable horizontal pressure as and when needed

It was our dear friend @Peter Parfitt I believe? http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/cms-ge-feather-board/msg373870/#msg373870

CMS router table fence improvements ( micro adjust using crown stop) "updated"

Roachmill · « **Reply #79 on:** May 19, 2019, 04:33 AM »

Quote from: GarryMartin on May 19, 2019, 04:22 AM

Quote from: Roachmill on May 18, 2019, 03:23 PM
Can't remember where I saw it (I duly ripped off the idea lickety-split!) and screwed a couple of pieces of incra track on to a pair of featherboards. The track slips right on to a protractor giving you adjustable horizontal pressure as and when needed

It was our dear friend @Peter Parfitt I believe? http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/cms-ge-feather-board/msg373870/#msg373870

(Attachment Link)

No, can't have been him. My featherboards are black

Oh well, belated thanks to Peter and you, GarryMartin, for that ever impressive memory of yours!

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #80 on:** May 19, 2019, 07:07 AM »

Thanks @GarryMartin for remembering this.

I use it on both the CMS-OF and CMS-TS and it is very useful. I am surprised that Festool did not make one as an optional extra.

I must apologise for my infrequent visits to the FOG but we are still trying to find a new house (and workshop). We made an offer on one house, which was accepted but then the seller asked for 10% more money ! So, we are back to the drawing board with much of my workshop stuff in boxes ready to be moved. That house did have lots of awful wallpaper which I would have wanted to remove in the first few weeks and so that is one consolation I suppose. The workshop would have been wonderful.

I have a Workshop Notes video in the pipeline and I have built a new solid bench which will be the subject of 3 or 4 videos.

Also, I have built a folding bench which is the same size as the MFT3 and a dash lighter. I may release the plans for that, free of charge, when I can get around to drawing them.

Cheers.

Peter

Daikan · « **Reply #81 on:** June 03, 2020, 08:29 PM »

Was wondering where to source the gray table that clamps on the router table. Many thanks.

Abditory · « **Reply #82 on:** May 15, 2022, 12:01 AM »

Quote from: onevw on June 08, 2018, 07:19 PM

Many thanks for these post on using the Woodpecker micro adjust with the CMS.

I was looking for a way to make fine adjustment in the fence on my CMS Router.

So I have come up with this set up. I still need to finish the 2 inch aluminum channel ,and install the adjustment knobs.

Cheese · « **Reply #83 on:** October 02, 2022, 10:23 AM »

Hmmm...a few N52 magnets and and some 440C stainless rod, I wonder what a guy could fabricate with that stuff?

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #84 on:** October 02, 2022, 01:05 PM »

@Cheese I like the looks of that square magnet with the through hole. Do you have a link to a source?

Cheese · « **Reply #85 on:** October 02, 2022, 05:44 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on October 02, 2022, 01:05 PM

@Cheese I like the looks of that square magnet with the through hole. Do you have a link to a source?

Ya @Michael Kellough K&J Magnetics...they recommend a #10 screw but for my application, I used a #8 flathead instead.

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX0X08DCB

Cheese · « **Reply #86 on:** October 03, 2022, 10:18 AM »

I've been wanting to add the Woodpeckers Micro Adjust to the CMS for several years now.

1. The problem I've had is that I don't have the room to store the Festool fence when it's attached to the Micro Adjust and attached to whatever Micro Adjust attachment plate that is used on the CMS. So, I needed to be able to quickly disassemble the individual items and store them as small sub-assemblies.

2. At the same time I also didn't want to be fumbling with nuts, fasteners & wrenches when I separated the items. The longer the time it takes to assemble the individual items, the more likely they'll remain in that unassembled state and not be used.

3. I wanted to be able to remove and replace the upper dust connection hose easily, again without disassembling anything. I also wanted to make the dust collection port as efficient as possible so a straight or 45º fitting was preferred.

This was my solution a "carriage" connected with 440C stainless rod and some strategically placed N42 & N52 magnets.

And here's what the "carriage" looks like once the stainless rods are simply removed. Just grab each rod and pull them towards the side and they're gone. Then place each rod backwards on the Micro Adjust and the magnets retain the stainless rods and it becomes it's own small sub-assembly.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #87 on:** October 03, 2022, 03:45 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on October 02, 2022, 10:23 AM

Hmmm...a few N52 magnets and and some 440C stainless rod, I wonder what a guy could fabricate with that stuff?

Great idea, Cheesy One! It looks like you embedded the magnets in the fence and the movable surface of the adjuster. Epoxy to set them? And where did you find the stainless rod material? I've been dithering with the same space conundrum and was planning on using all-thread, but your methodology is so much more clever. Well done!

And by the way, where did you get the vacuum elbow? I've been using a radiator hose sized to accept the extractor hose end fitting.

festal · « **Reply #88 on:** October 03, 2022, 04:33 PM »

Very nicely done

Cheese · « **Reply #89 on:** October 04, 2022, 12:01 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on October 03, 2022, 03:45 PM

Great idea, Cheesy One! It looks like you embedded the magnets in the fence and the movable surface of the adjuster. Epoxy to set them? And where did you find the stainless rod material? I've been dithering with the same space conundrum and was planning on using all-thread, but your methodology is so much more clever. Well done! And by the way, where did you get the vacuum elbow? I've been using a radiator hose sized to accept the extractor hose end fitting.

Thanks Sparky...I'll give you a quick rundown on your questions and offer a couple of tips that I learned in the process.

I started with disassembling the Micro Adjust and reassembling it with the pre-drilled holes in the movable surface in the upper position.

That then allowed me to use the Micro Adjust and a transfer punch to locate the magnet retaining holes on the wall of the fence housing. Lika this...

The magnets were installed with #8 fasteners. This 1/4" bit and the ratchet wrench are a MUST. It'll never happen otherwise, because the magnets are so strong they attract everything within 2" of them.

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX0X08DCB&cat=19

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D88-N52

The movable surface on the Micro Adjust is drilled out with a GOOD 1/2" drill bit and the magnets are pressed into the aluminum. I did the drilling in about 6 steps so to take just a little bit at a time and to prevent the bit from grabbing.

The 440C stainless was chosen because it retains 80-85% of the magnetic properties of cold rolled or hot rolled steel, and it still has the majority of the virtues of SST. I ordered both 3/8" & 1/2" round but used the 1/2" because it really holds on well through the aluminum casting.

https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/stainless-steel/0-5-stainless-round-bar-440c-cold-finish/pid/13971

The rear dust collection fitting is a standard Festool 450575 but massaged with a band saw. Festool Ekat USA doesn't offer the fitting but if you call Festool Service they'll sell you one. The extra port was removed and 1 1/4" was removed from the large end. Then that opening had to opened up a bit with a sanding drum in a drill press. Add a little aluminum HVAC tape to the opening.

Cheese · « **Reply #90 on:** October 06, 2022, 12:42 PM »

Hey Willy @Sparktrician I just received the extra 450575 Y-piece from Festool today. This is a better comparison photo between the original & the modified part.

An additional nice feature which happened by chance

is that when you loosen the fence hold down studs and knobs, they're both drawn immediately to the square magnets attached to the inside of the housing and they permanently retain the stud/knob/washer/spacer so there are no extra parts to lose...pretty slick actually. You fight the power of the magnet to reinstall the hold down studs but in this case that's a good fight.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #91 on:** October 06, 2022, 03:13 PM »

Good stuff, @Cheese! Now I recognize that fitting as being one and the same that came with my CMS. Methinks I'll stay with the radiator hose that has pretty much the same angle as the Festool fitting, but without the extra piece that needs to be cut off. Several years ago I went through an extensive search for a matching size radiator hose at the local auto parts place. I found one that is an exact fit, but I had to surgically remove an extra bend in the hose. ~~I'll have to go down and see if I can find the part number.~~ OK, the part number is on the lower attached photo, but be aware that this is the end I surgically removed. In the upper photo, the end that is closest to the CMS fence just easily slips over the casting with no muss, no fuss. The end of the radiator hose on the CMS came with a larger inside diameter than the opposite end. The DE hose end just slips right into the smaller end of the radiator hose. I don't need hose clamps at all to keep everything in place. I like that the end I am using has only a ~25° bend (little effect on the extraction compared to a sharper bend), and it will slip right over the top of the micro-adjuster when I get that part finished.

Cheese · « **Reply #92 on:** October 07, 2022, 12:35 AM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on October 06, 2022, 03:13 PM

I like that the end I am using has only a ~25° bend (little effect on the extraction compared to a sharper bend), and it will slip right over the top of the micro-adjuster when I get that part finished.

Ya, it's one of those rare cases where smaller is better...

...I hate 90º angles for dust extraction or HVAC connections with a passion. For HVAC, a simple 90º connection is equivalent to an additional 10 feet of ductwork.

Curious as to what attaches the Micro Adjust to the Festool fence structure?

Sparktrician · « **Reply #93 on:** October 07, 2022, 08:55 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on October 07, 2022, 12:35 AM

Quote from: Sparktrician on October 06, 2022, 03:13 PM
I like that the end I am using has only a ~25° bend (little effect on the extraction compared to a sharper bend), and it will slip right over the top of the micro-adjuster when I get that part finished.

Ya, it's one of those rare cases where smaller is better... ...I hate 90º angles for dust extraction or HVAC connections with a passion. For HVAC, a simple 90º connection is equivalent to an additional 10 feet of ductwork.

Curious as to what attaches the Micro Adjust to the Festool fence structure?

Right now, nothing. I've had the project on hold for quite a while due to the issue that you mentioned of the added bulk of the fence with the Micro Adjust attached. Your solution has gotten me back on track with the project, so I thank you for the idea and details.

Cheese · « **Reply #94 on:** October 07, 2022, 09:59 AM »

FWIW Sparky...those 440C rods are 3.75" long but that's not a magic number. Yours just need to be long enough to work with your DC connection.

Note that 3/8" diameter rod will also work and give you a bit more room if you need it.

Finally, those magnets want to center the rods even the large 1" square one which surprised me. However, there is more fudge factor with the square magnet.

A lot of design layout can be done with the magnets and a couple of transfer punches used as rods...just to give you a sense of space.

On a different note...I'll be looking for the weekly Sedge shout-out to you on Festool Live.

Cheese · « **Reply #95 on:** October 15, 2022, 12:10 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on October 07, 2022, 09:59 AM

On a different note...I'll be looking for the weekly Sedge shout-out to you on Festool Live.

...I missed the weekly Friday Sedgely shout-out yesterday...

Hey Sparky @Sparktrician I had to move the CMS yesterday so I thought I'd take a couple of pics on how things work.

Like I mentioned previously, when the fence studs are loosened, the magnets immediately attract and hold them along with the spacer & washer.

When you lift the fence up off of the router plate, then the magnet pulls the stud assembly completely to the magnet for safe keeping.

Place the Micro Adjust on top of the fence and you have a nice compact package to move or store.

When setting it back up, align the center line mark on the router plate with the mark on the Micro Adjust.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #96 on:** October 15, 2022, 05:29 PM »

Thanks, @Cheese, O Cheesy One. That's very helpful.

Cheese · « **Reply #97 on:** December 15, 2022, 11:22 AM »

I've been wanting to add a DRO to the CMS to measure both router bit height and fence movement. A sort of Y & Z axis hybrid. After months of searching I never really found a unit that was small enough for the task, all the units available become pretty bulky to be adding to a router table that was designed to be PORTABLE in the first place. Kind of defeats the nature of the table.

I decided for now to just add the Z axis and chose the Wixey WR525 model.

http://www.wixey.com/remote/index.html

It's a really easy installation as long as you take your time. A #8-32 FH screw to secure the vertical magnetic scale and a #8-32 BH screw to secure the readhead. This installation on the CMS is with a 2200 router installed.

Here's a photo of the magnetic scale suspended from the CMS aluminum base plate while the redhead is supported by the CMS plastic carriage.

To support the readhead I used the existing hole that's in the plastic carriage.

It's a snug fit but everything works well.

A single countersunk hole had to be added to the CMS aluminum plate but that gets lost with all of the other countersunk fasteners on the surface.

Now I need to find a place to mount the DRO display. I'm thinking magnets...

Sparktrician · « **Reply #98 on:** December 15, 2022, 03:05 PM »

Great mod, @Cheese O Cheesy One! I may have to emulate what you've done sometime in the spring.

festal · « **Reply #99 on:** December 15, 2022, 09:38 PM »

Nice mod.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GarryMartin · « **Reply #100 on:** December 16, 2022, 08:43 AM »

I did something similar some time ago, but I wanted a solution that did not make any changes to the CMS plate or its components, so I toyed around with a 3D-printed solution. I never got around to finessing it because it worked fine at a particular point and I then moved on to other things, but if anyone wants to try it for themselves, I've attached the STL files you'll need as a ZIP file. All it needs is some longer bolts for the bottom part where it connects with the plate and the screws etc. from the Wixey install.

Otherwise things are friction fit or you can apply a little glue if you feel the need.

Hope someone finds it useful.

Cheese · « **Reply #101 on:** December 16, 2022, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: GarryMartin on December 16, 2022, 08:43 AM

I did something similar some time ago, but I wanted a solution that did not make any changes to the CMS plate or its components, so I toyed around with a 3D-printed solution. I never got around to finessing it because it worked fine at a particular point and I then moved on to other things, but if anyone wants to try it for themselves, I've attached the STL files you'll need as a ZIP file. All it needs is some longer bolts for the bottom part where it connects with the plate and the screws etc. from the Wixey install.

Otherwise things are friction fit or you can apply a little glue if you feel the need.

Hope someone finds it useful.

Thanks for posting Garry...nice install. I don't have a 3D printer but I really like the method you've chosen to mount the DRO display. Maybe I'll take a look at machining something similar to that from Delrin.

festal · « **Reply #102 on:** December 16, 2022, 10:32 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 16, 2022, 10:19 AM

Quote from: GarryMartin on December 16, 2022, 08:43 AM
I did something similar some time ago, but I wanted a solution that did not make any changes to the CMS plate or its components, so I toyed around with a 3D-printed solution. I never got around to finessing it because it worked fine at a particular point and I then moved on to other things, but if anyone wants to try it for themselves, I've attached the STL files you'll need as a ZIP file. All it needs is some longer bolts for the bottom part where it connects with the plate and the screws etc. from the Wixey install.

Otherwise things are friction fit or you can apply a little glue if you feel the need.

Hope someone finds it useful.

Thanks for posting Garry...nice install. I don't have a 3D printer but I really like the method you've chosen to mount the DRO display. Maybe I'll take a look at machining something similar to that from Delrin.

@Cheese if you want I can print it for you. Just cover the shipping

Cheese · « **Reply #103 on:** December 16, 2022, 11:22 AM »

Quote from: festal on December 16, 2022, 10:32 AM

@Cheese if you want I can print it for you. Just cover the shipping

Hey thank you @festal ...that's very nice. Let me PM you later today.

festal · « **Reply #104 on:** December 16, 2022, 11:30 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 16, 2022, 11:22 AM

Quote from: festal on December 16, 2022, 10:32 AM
@Cheese if you want I can print it for you. Just cover the shipping

Hey thank you @festal ...that's very nice. Let me PM you later today.

sure

festal · « **Reply #105 on:** December 16, 2022, 11:44 AM »

@GarryMartin do you remember if supports are needed? I'm guessing PETG will work fine for this?

GarryMartin · « **Reply #106 on:** December 16, 2022, 12:01 PM »

Quote from: festal on December 16, 2022, 11:44 AM

@GarryMartin do you remember if supports are needed? I'm guessing PETG will work fine for this?

PETG definitely fine. Mine are printed in that. I can't remember regarding supports though. Definitely not required for the MFT support, and I don't think so for the bottom. Pretty sure they're needed for the top but I can't remember off the top of my head which orientation I printed in.

festal · « **Reply #107 on:** December 16, 2022, 12:14 PM »

Quote from: GarryMartin on December 16, 2022, 12:01 PM

Quote from: festal on December 16, 2022, 11:44 AM
@GarryMartin do you remember if supports are needed? I'm guessing PETG will work fine for this?

PETG definitely fine. Mine are printed in that. I can't remember regarding supports though. Definitely not required for the MFT support, and I don't think so for the bottom. Pretty sure they're needed for the top but I can't remember off the top of my head which orientation I printed in.

Thank you

festal · « **Reply #108 on:** January 10, 2023, 06:46 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 16, 2022, 11:22 AM

Quote from: festal on December 16, 2022, 10:32 AM
@Cheese if you want I can print it for you. Just cover the shipping

Hey thank you @festal ...that's very nice. Let me PM you later today.

Did the parts work?

Cheese · « **Reply #109 on:** January 23, 2023, 11:54 AM »

Well, I finally had the opportunity to fit the Wixey DRO to the CMS.

A huge

to @GarryMartin for the bracket design and the documentation and a huge

to @festal for the actual 3D printing. She's definitely a thing of beauty.

I'll show the completed/assembled display first and then talk about issues that may or may not be unique to my machine.

The bracket installs from the top, just lightly snapping on to the V-groove extrusion. It can be easily slid along the front edge of the router table and can be moved to either of the extension tables if need be such as when using the sliding table.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #110 on:** January 23, 2023, 01:13 PM »

I do like the concept, @Cheese, but I think I might prefer to locate the read-out above the CMS' table, say, back next to the Sparktrician-model power switch where I can see it, and where it does not interfere with the sliding table's rail. Much to be explored in the future, methinks...

Cheese · « **Reply #111 on:** January 23, 2023, 01:20 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on January 23, 2023, 01:13 PM

I do like the concept, @Cheese, but I think I might prefer to locate the read-out above the CMS' table, say, back next to the Sparktrician-model power switch where I can see it, and where it does not interfere with the sliding table's rail. Much to be explored in the future, methinks...

Ya Sparky I agree...all this concept stuff is great but the real "Come to Jesus" time is when you fire up the equipment and actually start to run product through it. Let's see what happens...

festal · « **Reply #112 on:** January 23, 2023, 02:57 PM »

Nice @Cheese

GarryMartin · « **Reply #113 on:** January 23, 2023, 04:45 PM »

Looking good @Cheese! I'm not sure it would interfere with the sliding table at all @Sparktrician and it's very easy to clip on/off if it did interfere with anything for any reason.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #114 on:** January 23, 2023, 04:56 PM »

Quote from: GarryMartin on January 23, 2023, 04:45 PM

Looking good @Cheese! I'm not sure it would interfere with the sliding table at all @Sparktrician and it's very easy to clip on/off if it did interfere with anything for any reason.

@GarryMartin, I checked very carefully on my own CMS before making that comment. I still say that I would prefer to have the read-out up and behind the working surface of my CMS. YMMV...

Cheese · « **Reply #115 on:** January 24, 2023, 01:19 PM »

Well I think I finally figured this thing out, I mentioned earlier that there was a unique issue with the fit of the Wixey bracket to my CMS aluminum V-extrusion rail.

When @GarryMartin originally designed the Wixey DRO bracket, he designed it for use on a CMS-VL table. On that table the aluminum V-extrusion is open on both ends. On the CMS-GE table, the aluminum V-extrusion is captured between the cast aluminum bracket that holds the 2 legs. This leaves a small area where the the Wixey bracket can contract and that makes it just about impossible to remove the Wixey bracket without using 2 screwdrivers to wedge open the bracket and remove it from the aluminum V-extrusion. It wouldn't take too long before the bracket would start to crack and break. This is what it looks like in photos.

Open style aluminum V-extrusion on CMS-VL.

Aluminum V-extrusion captured between the cast aluminum leg bracket on CMS-GE. With the recessed area highlighted in blue.

The part of the Wixey bracket that got caught in the recess is the small radius lip highlighted in green.

Once I removed the lip with a sharp chisel and a little file work the problem went away. The bracket is now easy to attach...easy to remove.

squall_line · « **Reply #116 on:** January 24, 2023, 03:58 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 24, 2023, 01:19 PM

Well I think I finally figured this thing out, I mentioned earlier that there was a unique issue with the fit of the Wixey bracket to my CMS aluminum V-extrusion rail.

...

Once I removed the lip with a sharp chisel and a little file work the problem went away. The bracket is now easy to attach...easy to remove.

"The problem with 3D printing is that you still need to machine the part when you're done to get to a working final product"

Just kidding around, Cheese.

Looks great, and can probably be updated in the file for others when they print!

GarryMartin · « **Reply #117 on:** January 24, 2023, 05:02 PM »

@Cheese Mine fits fine on my CMS-GE (and even my CS 50 for the heck of it!) but my extrusions are more flush-fitted than yours - I don't have the slight difference in heights you highlighted in blue. The bracket should clip on and off without having to slide it off the ends too; although I could make that a little easier, I was more worried about it being knocked off accidentally than making it very easy to get one and off but I could modify the part to lose the lip or reduce it. If I find some time to take a look, I'll come back to the thread and post an updated model.

Cheese · « **Reply #118 on:** January 25, 2023, 10:28 AM »

Thanks for chiming in Garry...who'd have thought? I checked the non-flush fit on both of the sides and they are different. The RH side in the photo is off by .040" and the LH side is off by .025".

Later today I'm going to check to see if I can loosen and realign the leg casting to be flush with the front extrusion.

Cheese · « **Reply #119 on:** January 26, 2023, 10:47 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 25, 2023, 10:28 AM

Later today I'm going to check to see if I can loosen and realign the leg casting to be flush with the front extrusion.

There are 3 Torx screws on each end that can be loosened and that allows the front aluminum V-groove extrusion to be relocated slightly and more closely align it flush with the corner leg castings. It's not completely flush but both are now within .008" of being flush.

Willy @Sparktrician this is for you.

I decided to move the DRO to the rear of the table just for giggles and decided I actually like it better in that position. It's completely out of harms way but yet still very visible. A slight modification to the existing metal bracket or maybe just a new metal bracket will take care of everything.

I believe that's where mine will permanently reside.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #120 on:** January 26, 2023, 10:57 AM »

@Cheese, I'm still thinking that I'll park the DRO on top of my On/Off switch. @GarryMartin, you can see how the sliding table rail negates the ability to use that bracket on the CMS-GE.

Cheese · « **Reply #121 on:** January 26, 2023, 11:07 AM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on January 26, 2023, 10:57 AM

@Cheese, I'm still thinking that I'll park the DRO on top of my On/Off switch. @GarryMartin, you can see how the sliding table rail negates the ability to use that bracket on the CMS-GE.

I like what you did for the On/Off switch. Once a RH extension table is added or if the sliding table is added, access to the original Festool switch is pretty tough, that could be dangerous.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #122 on:** January 26, 2023, 11:15 AM »

@Cheese, that was one of the most compelling drivers for me to remove the stock 15 amp switch and go to the 20 amp switch above the deck of the CMS. Couldn't see having my mugly ugg down next to the place where sharp tools were spinning faster than I can run, especially while oozing bodily fluids necessary to support human life.

We won't mention the other compelling reason to go to the 20 amp switch.

GarryMartin · « **Reply #123 on:** January 26, 2023, 06:14 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on January 26, 2023, 10:57 AM

@Cheese, I'm still thinking that I'll park the DRO on top of my On/Off switch. @GarryMartin, you can see how the sliding table rail negates the ability to use that bracket on the CMS-GE.

(Attachment Link)

I see what you mean - you've lost the profile on the front of the CMS-GE because of the added infeed table. Gotcha.