Author Topic: CMS router table fence improvements ( micro adjust using crown stop) "updated" (Read 72708 times)

Benjamin · « **on:** August 20, 2014, 10:21 PM »

Just like JohnymanyB me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table, as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons ) but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.

neilc · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:34 PM »

That's really a simple but effective approach.

Thanks for sharing the thinking and photos.

One question - effectively with this approach, you have to micro adjust ANY movement in the fence - there is no way as you have designed it to rapid adjust, or does the Woodpecker offer a fast advance option by chance?

neil

Benjamin · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2014, 10:44 PM »

yes , interesting that you say that, what we ordered today was a crank handle ( similar to what you see on a table or band saw ) so when that comes in we want to attach it to the knob and were hoping this will speed the motion up hugely ,

as the crack is 4" wide so it will move 4X the rate , Cause remember most of a the motion is either moving the fence to switch a cutter or do some adjustment, so the fence really only has to move 3-4" one way or another to be effective .

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/3126310?searchMode=productSearch&zipcode=&filterByStore=&filterByVendingMachine=

jonmannyb · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM »

I really love your design. It's so much cleaner than mine. FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy. This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body. The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation. I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job. I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about. Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking. What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment. Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it. Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?

Sparktrician · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM »

I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?

neilc · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:34 PM »

Jon - yes you read my question correctly, and I like your suggested approach as one way to enable a rapid adjust option.

neil

supimeister · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2014, 08:51 PM »

I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Benjamin · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:32 PM »

Quote from: jonmannyb on August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM

I really love your design. It's so much cleaner than mine. FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy. This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body. The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation. I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job. I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about. Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking. What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment. Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it. Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?

Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results

Benjamin · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM

I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Benjamin · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2014, 03:49 AM »

Quote from: supimeister on August 23, 2014, 08:51 PM

I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Yes the VL would probably be easier in the sense that you can use the dog holes of the mft to easily install and keep sq your micro adjust , I would just buy wood peckers micro adjust and try to install it to something like one of theses mounting plates that pop in the mft and then you could use your element clamps knobs to hold it down real fast and securely

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70864&cat=1,43838,70865

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2014, 04:07 AM »

Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Sparktrician · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Benjamin · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2014, 09:17 AM »

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on August 24, 2014, 04:07 AM

Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry I just didn't put them in before I took my photo graphs . yes I still use the one knob for extra security ,but you just unscrew it a turn and then you can micro adjust all you want.

Ben

richk · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2014, 10:16 AM »

If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

Sparktrician · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2014, 12:43 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM

Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

Benjamin · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 25, 2014, 12:43 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Benjamin · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2014, 11:57 PM »

Quote from: richk on August 24, 2014, 10:16 AM

If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

yes I think this could be a good possibility as well. I just didn't want to have so much length hanging out the back of the table so I choose the wood pecker micro adjust instead for its petit size. Id like to see some one do it and get back to us on how it works.

I also didn't want to spend 4x the amount as the wood pecker

Sparktrician · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2014, 05:24 PM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman. He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work. Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another. It worked just about right. One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end. No clamps are needed. There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed. I may leave it on because it works well in my shop.

Benjamin · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2014, 11:16 PM »

Quote from: Sparktrician on August 28, 2014, 05:24 PM

Quote from: Benjamin on August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Benjamin on August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Sparktrician on August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
I really like this version. Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea! Thanks.

Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port. Do you have the same issue? I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman. He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work. Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another. It worked just about right. One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end. No clamps are needed. There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed. I may leave it on because it works well in my shop.

pretty cool

jonmannyb · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2014, 07:18 AM »

Thanks for the Pics. This is a really cool and efficient concept. I'll definitely update my setup using a lot of your concepts.

Thanks again.
Jon

jonmannyb · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2014, 09:44 PM »

Hi Benjamin,

I'm actually looking to update my mod to the CMS using a lot of your ideas. Can you please clarify the whole set up you have with the right angle attachment into the back of the CMS? I see you have some sort of rubber sleeve over the male end of the back of the
CMS fence. I went ahead and picked up the "Anti-Static Angle Adaptor (part 456 806)". I just got it from Amazon and realized that it only fits the 27mm hose and not the 36mm.

Can you please tell me how you were able to attach the 36mm hose onto this Angle Adaptor, and where I can purchase that rubber looking sleeve that goes over the male end of the CMS fence?

Benjamin · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2014, 10:00 PM »

Hi Jon,

Sorry to tell you , you need to get the new tapered hose right angle end, as it is wide enough to fit around the 36mm hose snugly.

part #499907

and the stuff around the cms fence is the non skid tape that is used on the tracks. any weather stripping could be used as well.

best of luck.

jonmannyb · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2014, 11:35 PM »

So sorry to bug you on this Benjamin and thanks so much for the prompt response. I just checked for that 499907 part and I can't seem to locate it in the 2014 catalog. I'm also Googling it and nothing is showing up. Is this a part I have to get directly from festool and just double checking if that's the correct part number.

Thanks so much again.

Benjamin · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:31 PM »

no that part number is the one Shane ( site moderator here ) gave me when I asked him for it.

I got my dealer to order me 2 of them and they got them in for me.

no problem , you can ask me any questions you'd like.

jonmannyb · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:59 PM »

Thanks so much for all your help. I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part. I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites. No problem. I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle. This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again.

PreferrablyWood · « **Reply #25 on:** October 04, 2014, 03:59 AM »

This is a really nice thread on making a compact solution to the fence adjust problems mentioned about the router module for CMS. I'm putting the CMS back on my list because of it, will likely get the CMS GE + OF2200 kit offered here in Germany and Denmark oh and have to budget for the Woodpecker micro adjust fence.. The Accesories systainer for the OF2200 and som bits, shall be say I'll be suited out by 2018?

Benjamin · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2014, 08:56 PM »

Quote from: jonmannyb on October 03, 2014, 08:59 PM

Thanks so much for all your help. I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part. I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites. No problem. I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle. This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again.

strange ..... I just got 3 of them?

any ways best of luck

Charles Sharpe · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2014, 01:12 PM »

Quote from: Benjamin on August 20, 2014, 10:21 PM

Sorry for delay in saying thank you for all the info but Ive not been very well.

Charles.
just like JohnymanyB me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table, as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons ) but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.

ChipMonk · « **Reply #28 on:** January 03, 2016, 03:40 PM »

Thanks for sharing your CMS mod Benjamin.

Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow (Angle piece D 32/27 DAG/90°-AS Part Number 499907) or explain how the elbow connects to a D 36 hose.

According to Festool catalogs and websites the 499907 fits only 27mm hose.
https://www.festool.com/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=499907&name=Hose-sleeves-D-32-27-DAG-90-AS

SMJoinery · « **Reply #29 on:** January 03, 2016, 04:36 PM »

Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott