Author Topic: Angle jig  (Read 4361 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Angle jig
« on: April 24, 2021, 05:32 PM »
Hello!

Does anybody know of another jig, simular as in this link, that could take larger angle then 60 degree??
https://www.woodpeck.com/woodpeckers-adjustable-track-square.html

Regards
Kåre!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1159
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2021, 05:43 PM »
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/digital-levels-digital-angle-finders-and-inclinometer-gam-220-mf-140453-p/

Set the angle and lock the rail down for the cut. I use my angle meters in all kinds of ways.

(Always good to put your country of origin in so others can offer more direct help.)

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 556
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2021, 06:14 PM »
Its a chunk of change but this might give you more.

MTR-18 Precision Square

Offline afish

  • Posts: 600
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 07:52 PM »
I second the MTR.  I own one and everything about it is top notch.  Much more versatile however less compact than the WP. 

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2885
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2021, 10:24 PM »

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1159
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 10:44 PM »
Festool?

https://tinyurl.com/yebph2mh
I have that piece of junk. The first thing it needs is a modification to hold position by adding a washer to the pivot. I don't ever use it, but do use my Bosch angle meter. The TSO triangle is a great option I had forgotten about.

Offline PaulMarcel

  • Posts: 1551
    • Voilà, my blog
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2021, 02:30 AM »
One thing I'd point out about digital angle finders is to pay attention to the specifications. A lot of them show two digits after the decimal, but the spec says ±0.2  [crying] The extra digit is there to fool you into thinking it is accurate to anything in the hundredths of a degree.

Second, think of the accuracy you need. If you are setting blade tilt and miter gauge angle for compound cuts on the flat, you need a lot of accuracy as the error will compound. Do you need that on one pair of compound cuts for a compound joint? Maybe not. If you have 8 compound joints for a box then you probably do. For that, the Bridge City Toolworks AngleMaster Pro v2 is your gold standard. They come up occasionally on eBay. Wish BCTW would make another run. I use mine _way_more_ than I expected.

The TSO, however, is really good.
Visit my blog for Festool adventures
IG: @PaulMarcel328 - basically stories, mix of circus, woodworking, maybe gym stuffs... it's not an extension of my blog, /tedtalk

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4486
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2021, 05:42 AM »
If you require just 45 degrees then you can do this on an MFT3 with various tall and short dogs. If you want 30 deg and 60 deg as well then you could create an isometric MFT3 top. Please forgive the commercial but other methods could be used:



Peter

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2021, 10:06 AM »
One thing I'd point out about digital angle finders is to pay attention to the specifications. A lot of them show two digits after the decimal, but the spec says ±0.2  [crying] The extra digit is there to fool you into thinking it is accurate to anything in the hundredths of a degree.

Second, think of the accuracy you need. If you are setting blade tilt and miter gauge angle for compound cuts on the flat, you need a lot of accuracy as the error will compound. Do you need that on one pair of compound cuts for a compound joint? Maybe not. If you have 8 compound joints for a box then you probably do. For that, the Bridge City Toolworks AngleMaster Pro v2 is your gold standard. They come up occasionally on eBay. Wish BCTW would make another run. I use mine _way_more_ than I expected.

The TSO, however, is really good.

The Bosch digital angle finder is honest at least, +/- .1* accuracy and only displays tenths of degrees, but unless the joint is no more than a few inches long an error of .1* is too much.

For anyone doubting this stick a digital inclinometer on the blade of your tablesaw and watch how far you have to tilt the arbor before the display changes to the next increment.

Wish I hadn’t missed the upgraded BCT AngleMaster but I get by with a machinist’s vernier protractor.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2021, 10:43 AM »
We did a cabinet job that had 2.25" thick counters 26" deep with hickory veneers. The contractor insisted it all needed to be precut and pre-finished.

We built an angle guide with the cnc to cut the miter joints. It has a reference fence that is 30" long and gave us good results. We needed the cut capacity of the TS75 because of the thickness.

It is too large for small pieces but worked well for this job. It was the right tool for the job it was built for.

We have made some of these for other shops but have now retired and don't produce them anymore.

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2021, 02:38 PM »
That’s a protractor!   [thumbs up]

Very interesting photos. Hope you post more like that. Really like you part tree.

Offline dashboardpws

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2021, 03:11 PM »
You said it, Michael. Very impressive.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2021, 03:18 PM »
"Really like you part tree."

Thanks, Michael,

Those are drying racks we built for painting. Our shop did not have a dedicated finishing area when we built them, so they were designed so all the supports would fit in the centre box when it was not in use.

We have as you can see found many other uses for them when not finishing.

"That’s a protractor! " It does NOT fit in a systainer ;)
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline afish

  • Posts: 600
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2021, 05:17 PM »
We did a cabinet job that had 2.25" thick counters 26" deep with hickory veneers. The contractor insisted it all needed to be precut and pre-finished.

We built an angle guide with the cnc to cut the miter joints. It has a reference fence that is 30" long and gave us good results. We needed the cut capacity of the TS75 because of the thickness.

It is too large for small pieces but worked well for this job. It was the right tool for the job it was built for.

We have made some of these for other shops but have now retired and don't produce them anymore.

I too like the protractor but struggle to figure out why the track needs to be attached to it.  Wouldn't it be better to just butt the track to the edge of the protractor?  It seems like it would be a little unwieldy and somewhat delicate to pick up and move around. Any insight on why all one piece.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1159
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2021, 05:35 PM »
I too like the protractor but struggle to figure out why the track needs to be attached to it.  Wouldn't it be better to just butt the track to the edge of the protractor?  It seems like it would be a little unwieldy and somewhat delicate to pick up and move around. Any insight on why all one piece.
That is how I use my Bosch angle finder, which works just fine for the projects I have done as most are fairly small. Others say it isn't accurate enough at + or - .1* and there is always the option of just using measurements, and setting the rail to marks. *shrugs* The TSO product has appeal :)

Offline afish

  • Posts: 600
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2021, 06:24 PM »
I too like the protractor but struggle to figure out why the track needs to be attached to it.  Wouldn't it be better to just butt the track to the edge of the protractor?  It seems like it would be a little unwieldy and somewhat delicate to pick up and move around. Any insight on why all one piece.
That is how I use my Bosch angle finder, which works just fine for the projects I have done as most are fairly small. Others say it isn't accurate enough at + or - .1* and there is always the option of just using measurements, and setting the rail to marks. *shrugs* The TSO product has appeal :)

I have the TSO MTR but never use it for angles.  Mostly just an expensive but known good square checker. It is pricy and could see the appeal for a cheaper plywood version.  It might not be down to the .0005 but should satisfy 99%

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2021, 08:44 PM »
We did a cabinet job that had 2.25" thick counters 26" deep with hickory veneers. The contractor insisted it all needed to be precut and pre-finished.

We built an angle guide with the cnc to cut the miter joints. It has a reference fence that is 30" long and gave us good results. We needed the cut capacity of the TS75 because of the thickness.

It is too large for small pieces but worked well for this job. It was the right tool for the job it was built for.

We have made some of these for other shops but have now retired and don't produce them anymore.

I too like the protractor but struggle to figure out why the track needs to be attached to it.  Wouldn't it be better to just butt the track to the edge of the protractor?  It seems like it would be a little unwieldy and somewhat delicate to pick up and move around. Any insight on why all one piece.

Hi, It is more accurate and easier to use with it attached, although you could use it without being attached. It is lightweight and easy to move although of course not as easy as a smaller square. In use, I hold the fence against the workpiece with one hand and lift on the rail on the back side, so it will slide left or right to line up with the mark. This would be awkward without having it attached. I think you also introduce an opportunity for less accuracy with relying on pushing the rail against the fence. There always seems to be a random wood chip that gets in between the two.

Gerry



   
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline TSO_Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 384
    • TSO Products LLC
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2021, 08:51 PM »
This short video shows how the TSO MTR-18 Triangle is used in conjunction with the Axminster UJK Dog Rail Clip to make angle cuts on sheet goods easy and with a high degree of accuracy.
 


This does not require anything in the way of a 20mm dog hole pattern or even a table.
0 around to 360 and anything in between.

Hans

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 636
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 03:00 PM »
If it is just for occasional use, download a protractor and print it as large as you can.  Tape or glue to the surface and simply align the track. 

Cut through the paper.

I would think printing it to fit on a 8½ x 11 sheet would be large enough for this purpose.  Print a couple dozen of these sheets and keep them in a drawer until you need them.

The downloads are free and all over the internet.

Here's one on PDF.  I just printed one.  I don't know how to print it larger however.

https://sciencenotes.org/printable-protractors/

Here is another.  Excellent clarity but still just 6" wide.  I would like to find one that is almost twice that size.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/protractor.pdf

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 06:18 PM »
If it is just for occasional use, download a protractor and print it as large as you can.  Tape or glue to the surface and simply align the track. 

Cut through the paper.

I would think printing it to fit on a 8½ x 11 sheet would be large enough for this purpose.  Print a couple dozen of these sheets and keep them in a drawer until you need them.

The downloads are free and all over the internet.

Here's one on PDF.  I just printed one.  I don't know how to print it larger however.

https://sciencenotes.org/printable-protractors/

Here is another.  Excellent clarity but still just 6" wide.  I would like to find one that is almost twice that size.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/protractor.pdf

If you need it to be accurate use an inkjet printer.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2885
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2021, 07:24 PM »
Snip.

If you need it to be accurate use an inkjet printer.

 [big grin] [big grin]

Seriously, ruler and pencil lines (0.3mm lead) or scribed lines would produce more accurate results for one-time use or two.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2021, 09:19 PM »
Snip.

If you need it to be accurate use an inkjet printer.

 [big grin] [big grin]

Seriously, ruler and pencil lines (0.3mm lead) or scribed lines would produce more accurate results for one-time use or two.

I meant use an inkjet instead of a laser printer. Every laser I’ve used distorted.

Not having a big accurate protractor when I needed to draw an angle at large scale from plans I would use cad to find the Cartesian coordinates that lay on the lines and then use my best measuring tool to lay them out.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 09:24 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 636
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2021, 08:47 AM »
I printed the protractor out this morning on my laser printer and handed it to our QC manager to check the accuracy.  I had wanted him to check it on our Nikon optical comparator.  Unfortunately the comparator will only work if I print it on transparency film, and we do not have any of that in the office.

We did check it with our machinists blocks.  We have 30-60-90 blocks and 45-45-90 blocks.  Our QC manager said the accuracy was within the thickness of the printed lines which appear to be about 0.004" - 0.006" thick.

I checked 1", 2", 3" and 4" using my calibrated vernier calipers and they also appear to be dead on (within the thickness of the lines).

This might not be accurate enough for fine machining, but it exceeds the accuracy needed for woodworking. 

For occasional use, this seems like a perfectly reasonable solution. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2021, 09:38 AM »
That downloadable protractor (the first one) is too small to judge. A span of 90 degrees covers only 3”. The lines indicating degrees are more 2/10ths degree thick.

I am curious if you have a laser printer that does not distort. I test by making a 1” square grid in cad using the finest possible line thickness covering 8x10 inches and then measure the overall printed grid. Sometimes accurate in one direction but nearly always off (usually short) in the other direction. Might not be a problem in most cases but I like to know the limitations of my tools.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 636
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2021, 09:45 AM »
But for woodworking, you need machinists' accuracy?  I like to work as accurately as I can, but even using dowels, probably the most demanding for accuracy that I encounter, is not working to machinists' demands.  The drill bits in the jig have more slop than that.

And some 3/8" drill bits fit looser than others in the jigs, so I'm not even sure that all the drill bits are 100% on.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2021, 09:54 AM »
Seems like we’re talking about different scale projects.

I’m thinking of stuff like Oldwood posted, large scale and multiple joints where errors accumulate. A tenth degree error in any one of those joints and the construction would not have fit the site without.


Offline Packard

  • Posts: 636
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2021, 10:36 AM »
I would template that if I were building it. 

I would use strips of 3" wide x 3/16" Masonite or 1/4" plywood and a hot glue gun to get the accurate template.  There is no way I would work from "plans" for that.

If the template were very large, I would use the hot glue as a "clamp" and add some carpenters' glue to each junction and let it set.




More examples:  https://www.google.com/search?q=templating+for+countertops&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5vqij0p7wAhXjg-AKHcTuBYAQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1600&bih=786#imgrc=ZXg1ehm5Is1qdM&imgdii=z0ZAADF6y150YM
I try not to use rulers where I can avoid it by either transferring directly to the stock or using a story stick.  Almost all the errors I have ever made in the shop have been at the hands of some ruler or measuring device.  I avoid them whenever possible. 

« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 10:40 AM by Packard »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2885
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2021, 11:03 AM »
When angle accuracy matters (whether it's 90*, 22.5* or 75*), tradespeople building countertops, kitchen cabinets, etc. use this not-so-secret weapon as a last resort!

https://tinyurl.com/4pp8274u


Offline Packard

  • Posts: 636
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2021, 11:18 AM »
Grizzly makes an oversized protractor for $36.00.  I've never seen one in person so I don't know how well it locks when screwed tight.

Only one review listed and it was positive.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-large-protractor-with-locking-knob/h2687

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2021, 11:56 AM »
"I would template that if I were building it." 

We did template it but also had a lot of cover at the back against the wall because the uppers sat on the counters all the way around and the walls were sheeted with 3/4 veneered sheets between the cabinets. The counters needed to fit tight to the walls on the ends only.




Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2021, 11:59 AM »
When angle accuracy matters (whether it's 90*, 22.5* or 75*), tradespeople building countertops, kitchen cabinets, etc. use this not-so-secret weapon as a last resort!

https://tinyurl.com/4pp8274u

That looks like it might be useful, I have never seen that stuff before [big grin]
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 689
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2021, 02:59 PM »
When angle accuracy matters (whether it's 90*, 22.5* or 75*), tradespeople building countertops, kitchen cabinets, etc. use this not-so-secret weapon as a last resort!

https://tinyurl.com/4pp8274u

That looks like it might be useful, I have never seen that stuff before [big grin]

Just be aware that the stuff called "painter's putty" is oil based and it takes forever to dry/harden. It is meant to hold glass to the sash, it makes a lousy filler. There are better options for that.
Durham's rockhard water putty comes to mind or ordinary autobody filler both work well.

As far as the original project of this topic, the famous "it depends" comes to mind.
In some situations and for most of the past years, it is just quicker/easier to template it. I have seen guys do it with cardboard strips, but 1/4" plywood or MDF strips are far more accurate.
In more recent years we would do that with a Laser Templator. This can then be uploaded to the CNC to cut out parts for Solid Surface tops, or particle board for laminate tops. On a job of solid wood like that it would likely just be cut out of 1/4" MDF for an odd shape or just transferred to a measured drawing for simple rectangular parts.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 2885
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2021, 03:25 PM »
When it comes to furniture pieces, I wouldn't use any of the putty except the Timber Mate which you can find a matching color or stain it (the latter is a safer bet in my opinion). It doesn't shrink, and, with proper finishing skill, does a good job fooling an average consumer.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2021, 05:45 PM »
When it comes to furniture pieces, I wouldn't use any of the putty except the Timber Mate which you can find a matching color or stain it (the latter is a safer bet in my opinion). It doesn't shrink, and, with proper finishing skill, does a good job fooling an average consumer.

Way back when, Windsor plywood sold a wood filler that was wood ground fine with a solvent based binder. I don't remember the name.That was the last one I found that would stain like most woods. It was also easy to thin with lacquer thinner when it dried out in the can.

I have not tried the timber mate.

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Wayne CW

  • Posts: 39
  • Wayne
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2021, 12:50 PM »
Here is my jig/fence
"There is always something new to learn and old age isn't an excuse to quit."

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5281
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2021, 01:26 PM »
I like the flat square clamp friendly sides of your table.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 689
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2021, 07:34 PM »
When it comes to furniture pieces, I wouldn't use any of the putty except the Timber Mate which you can find a matching color or stain it (the latter is a safer bet in my opinion). It doesn't shrink, and, with proper finishing skill, does a good job fooling an average consumer.

Way back when, Windsor plywood sold a wood filler that was wood ground fine with a solvent based binder. I don't remember the name. That was the last one I found that would stain like most woods. It was also easy to thin with lacquer thinner when it dried out in the can.

I have not tried the timber mate.
Famowood?
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Angle jig
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2021, 08:15 PM »
"Famowood?"

I don't think so. But I can't be sure it has been a long time since I used it.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius