Author Topic: Aftermarket track hinge + support?  (Read 4534 times)

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Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« on: June 24, 2019, 10:16 AM »
Hey team,

@Svar ‘s thread got me thinking. The stock hinge and supports for the track that come with the MFT aren’t all that great.

Is anyone aware of an aftermarket solution I could purchase? Analogous to like the domiplate or something else made by a reputable company.

I’m looking for repeatability, lack of slop, and I loved on svar’s that you could swing the fence out of the way instead of raising it up.

Thank you!
Matt

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Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 11:22 AM »
@mattbyington – two simple ways to eliminate the MFT alignment of the 1080 Guide Rail:

1.)   Attach a GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Square to the MFT hinge using the same screws which hold the standard nut-plate. With the GRS-16 PE secured to the hinge, simply install the 1080 Guide Rail the same way you would normally connect a GRS-16.
Bingo – you now have an assured square reference for your workpiece when using the 1080 Guide Rail on your MFT. No further adjustments needed.

2.)   The other option employs our PTR-18 PLUS Triangle which now features M6 tapped holes for attaching 25mm tall S.S. Pins (included).  With the triangle referenced on to a pair of Dogs on the MFT, you can now  lock the MFT’s 1080 Guide Rail square to the Dog hole pattern and at the height of the sheet goods you’re cutting. This avoids the problem of losing “square” after adjusting it with the rail on the table surface but then having to raise it to the height required by the workpiece thickness.

TSO’s “System Design” approach:
We’re waiting to see pictures of a TPG-series RIGHT Hand Parallel Guide  T-track being attached to a GRS-16 PE on an MFT hinge bracket. This gives you not only an absolutely square cut but also allows you to make repeatably accurate length cross-cuts using the TPG -track and FlipStop 😊

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 11:34 AM »
@TSO Products thank you very much for your prompt and detailed reply. I own both of those items, you make great stuff. I'll check it out when I get home. thank you.

Matt

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 866
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 01:00 AM »
 TPG-series RIGHT Hand Parallel Guide  T-track being attached to a GRS-16 PE on an MFT hinge bracket. That is quite a mouth full.. [big grin].. I like the idea, would not the play in the festool hinge mess that up? Maybe you could make a replacement hinge? A soup to nuts solution would be fantastic.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 01:52 PM »
As long as the work piece is tight up against the TSO GR-16 or GR-16 PE, the hinge can rattle about without issue.
When you actually screw the GR-16 to the hinge and fix it to your rail, you're in effect creating a large square.
So the GR-16 and rail are always square together. You just have to make sure the work piece is flush on the GR-16.

I have both the GR-16 and GR-16 PE, and I often use them with the rail, and no hinge etc. This is a quicker way of working, with great accuracy when time is limited, or just an option other than the MFT hinged rail

Offline myer84

  • Posts: 35
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 04:48 PM »
I'm having a hard time envisioning this. Are there any pics out there of someone creating this setup? I'm also looking for solutions to improve the slop on my MFT and eliminate the need to re-adjust the fence and rail when raising/lowering the guide rail when cutting different widths. Like Matt, I also like Svar design.

@mattbyington – two simple ways to eliminate the MFT alignment of the 1080 Guide Rail:

1.)   Attach a GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Square to the MFT hinge using the same screws which hold the standard nut-plate. With the GRS-16 PE secured to the hinge, simply install the 1080 Guide Rail the same way you would normally connect a GRS-16.
Bingo – you now have an assured square reference for your workpiece when using the 1080 Guide Rail on your MFT. No further adjustments needed.

2.)   The other option employs our PTR-18 PLUS Triangle which now features M6 tapped holes for attaching 25mm tall S.S. Pins (included).  With the triangle referenced on to a pair of Dogs on the MFT, you can now  lock the MFT’s 1080 Guide Rail square to the Dog hole pattern and at the height of the sheet goods you’re cutting. This avoids the problem of losing “square” after adjusting it with the rail on the table surface but then having to raise it to the height required by the workpiece thickness.

TSO’s “System Design” approach:
We’re waiting to see pictures of a TPG-series RIGHT Hand Parallel Guide  T-track being attached to a GRS-16 PE on an MFT hinge bracket. This gives you not only an absolutely square cut but also allows you to make repeatably accurate length cross-cuts using the TPG -track and FlipStop 😊

Hans

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 09:51 PM »
@myer84  - as he wrote, @Jiggy Joiner , does not see any remaining concern with the set up I described in words,

We totally agree that w need top get pictures or even some video up on the internet for all to see what we mean.

Eric is just completing a lighting upgrade in our demo space so let's see how well we can illustrate and demonstrate this on camera for all of you, including @Matt byington, in the coming week or two.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2019, 12:34 AM »
@TSO Products that would be great!!

Matt

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2019, 12:29 PM »
@TSO Products

Hans that would be great. I play with the GRS attached to the hinge but not real sure about how it comes together

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 11:17 PM »
@TSO Products

Hans that would be great. I play with the GRS attached to the hinge but not real sure about how it comes together

@jobsworth - about a year ago we introduced an addition to the GRS-16 PE which permits its attachment to the MFT hinge bracket.
Here's what our website
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-pe-parallel-edge-guide-rail-square/
says about that followed by pictures and more description. Hope that answers it for now:

New For June 2018
We have added the ability to connect the GRS-16 PE to the MFT/3 guide rail hing bracket! The time-consuming re-squaring process of the MFT guide rail is now a thing of the past with the newest GRS-16 PE. Rail squareness is now assured, unaffected by varying material thickness and rail height adjustment. The inspiration for this improvement came from customer Simon H., a Festool MFT/3 user in the UK. We listened and acted on it. Thank you, Simon!

We engineered this feature to keep the kerf line in exactly the same location as your standard MFT/3. You can quickly change back to the original MFT/3 arrangement any time.
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2019, 04:54 AM »
Ok, I see how the right angle guide and the hinge work together. The question is how does this work with the parallel guid system to provide repeatable cuts? Does the whole system pivot when lifting the rail? Is so does that not make it difficult to move the wood to the stop while the rail is down due to the high friction surface. If the stop rail is not attached to the rail but the table, does this not creat an alignment issue between the two?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 476
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2019, 08:57 AM »
I'll attempt to shed some light on the various use scenarios for the MTR-18 and the GRS-16 on the MFT. These are old pics I took.

GRS-16PE bolted to guide rail hinge, Seneca Parallel guide mounted to guide rail:


This is basically the same as having the TSO Parallel guide + GRS-16 mounted. The 1080 rail lifts as normal to any desired height. Material registers against the GRS-16. Cuts are always guaranteed square as long as registration is maintained against GRS-16 regardless of what the front of the rail is doing. It could be hanging without the front hinge support, doesn't matter. The parallel guide allows for repeatable cuts at a desired dimension with the included stop.

MTR-18 with included 25mm pins:



I still have the GRS-16 mounted and MFT/3 fence removed but it illustrates how you can use the MTR-18 for setting square. What Hans is alluding to is you would drop some dogs into the MTR-18 (or PTR-18 Plus), not necessary, and use the giant square to register your rail at the desired cutting height. The square would register simultaneously against your stock fence and the guide rail at desired cutting height. Lock everything in square and you know as long as you maintain that cutting height then everything is square. Presumably you'd have to re-adjust if you made a large change in material thickness, i.e. 1.5" down to .5".

Hope this helps.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2019, 10:58 AM »
@DynaGlide - "you're hired!"
thanks for the great explanation of the different ways to use our tools in conjunction with MFT.
- well said!
Let's seeif there are any other questions or further clarification needed.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 476
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2019, 11:02 AM »
@DynaGlide - "you're hired!"
thanks for the great explanation of the different ways to use our tools in conjunction with MFT.
- well said!
Let's seeif there are any other questions or further clarification needed.

Hans

@TSO Products So should I send you my address for a set of TSO parallel guides so I may better illustrate their usage. . .?  [big grin]
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2019, 11:18 AM »
@DynaGlide - yes, absolutely!
email me and spell out everything needed to fulfill in that email.

info@tsoproducts.com

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline heidtwd

  • Posts: 11
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2019, 08:13 AM »
Here's a photo of how I use mine for repeated cross-cuts.  I just leave it on there.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 866
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2019, 01:03 AM »
So the entire assembly pivots when the rail is lifted? I think my visualization problem is that I assumed that the measure stop was fixed to the table to allow length stop engagement before lowering the rail.

Offline RobBob

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2019, 09:09 AM »
Here's a photo of how I use mine for repeated cross-cuts.  I just leave it on there.
@heidtwd
Is the 30" long enough or do you wish you had the 50" for MFT/3 hinge use?

Offline heidtwd

  • Posts: 11
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2019, 10:22 AM »
Here's a photo of how I use mine for repeated cross-cuts.  I just leave it on there.
@heidtwd
Is the 30" long enough or do you wish you had the 50" for MFT/3 hinge use?
I also use the 50" when required, it's standing in the background.

Offline broseiden

  • Posts: 55
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2019, 10:43 AM »
Tried this method out yesterday on my Paulk-style bench, with a Precision Dogs parallel guide. The MFT hinge was mounted on a dovetail slot I routed in the side of the bench, and uses Matchfit hardware, for the time being at least. While I have to test it out a bit more before using it on a project, it definitely seems promising!

Some thoughts:

The guide rail flips up as per normal -- the parallel guide doesn't make it awkward or unwieldy.

I found I had to slightly lift the guide rail to ensure the material is seated well against the TSO square and the stop on the parallel guide. I dislike that it's less of a solid feeling than butting up to the fence of the MFT and butting into the flip stop. But I think I'll be able to get used to that, and even if a little more care is needed, it's a relatively minor issue if the results prove consistent.

I'd like to experiment a bit more before investing in the TSO guides, but I can see it fitting into my workflow. Maybe a 30" track with stops set for constants such as base and upper cabinet depth, gable height for 30" boxes and shorter OTR cabs, and a 50" track with a few stops that can be set in 3" increments for cutting bottoms and tops to width.

I'm not sure how wide the flip stops are, but I'm guessing they can only be set a minimum of ~2-1/2" from each other. It would be nice to find a way to get them closer - for example, for a 24" cabinet, maybe one stop at ~22-1/2" for bottoms and tops, and one at ~23" for sizing the back to fit in a dado.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:47 AM by broseiden »

Offline infer

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2019, 09:52 AM »
Found this rail lift on bangood. Works ok.
303419-0

Offline gbredon

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2019, 04:49 PM »
Hi from Australia
Your post appears to cover exactly what I want. I take it that you mean BangGood.com rather than bangood? I have looked at banggood.com and could not find it. Could you give an exact URL link? I look forward to your reply George


Offline infer

  • Posts: 66
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2019, 06:22 AM »
Thats the one. Just add t bolts or the rail connectors for the Festool rail and you are good to go. Surprisingly very well made for what it costs. Plus you don’t need to find empty space to put down your saw.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1270
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2019, 07:01 AM »
Found this rail lift on bangood. Works ok.
(Attachment Link)

Wow, that site is chock full of knockoff products. Woodpeckers, Bridge City Tools, Kreg, they don't care who they copy. But then again, I guess those patents may not be world wide, so technically it's OK to copy someone's design.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2019, 06:48 PM »
Found this rail lift on bangood. Works ok.
(Attachment Link)

Wow, that site is chock full of knockoff products. Woodpeckers, Bridge City Tools, Kreg, they don't care who they copy. But then again, I guess those patents may not be world wide, so technically it's OK to copy someone's design.

@Bob D. – you’re correct, up to a point, about copying someone’s design as you wrote “Woodpeckers, Bridge City Tools, Kreg” – provided you abide by the Patent(s) which apply to a product to a specific product in a specific country.

Quoting now from the actual patent wording    “. . . this United States  Patent grants to the person(s) having title to this patent the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention throughout the United States of America or importing the invention into the United States of America . . . "

In this case an importer, or importing purchaser, of an unauthorized copy of a US patented product is in violation.

Hans

TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1270
Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2019, 08:26 PM »
I realize that and it's why I said that I didn't believe those patents were world wide.

I'm sure you've been in the middle of this yourselves and don't care for it.

Just rubs me the wrong way when company A does all the R&D and company X comes
along and more or less Xeroxes the thing, puts their own almost the same catchy name
on it, and passes it off as their own.

And while it may be perfectly legal it's still dirty pool in my book and even though I
could save a boat load of money on those knock off items I prefer to buy the one who
developed it and brought it to market and if I can't afford it right now I'll do without
until I can.

That's why I bought your guide rail square and not someone else's. You ARE the ones
who originated that design aren't you?  [unsure]
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Aftermarket track hinge + support?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2019, 08:58 PM »
I realize that and it's why I said that I didn't believe those patents were world wide.

That's why I bought your guide rail square and not someone else's. You ARE the ones
who originated that design aren't you?  [unsure]

@Bob D. – you and so many others have purchased our Guide Rail Square, well aware of an unauthorized, cheapened imitation on the market for  a somewhat lower price. Without that customer support we would not have been able to sustain operations much less develop additional new products. Still, the loss of that incremental income continues to hurt.

Since both the Canadian and US Patent offices have determined that we are the original inventors and issued Utility Patents  US Patent 10,363,681 and Canadian Patent 2,994,319 accordingly, it remains to be seen how the lone US importer responds.

In the end, working hard to continue to earn the business and support of our growing customer base is our best and preferred course of action.

Our thanks to all of you TSO customers – in the US and around the world!
Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA