Author Topic: 20mm boring bits  (Read 8936 times)

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Offline ear3

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20mm boring bits
« on: August 08, 2016, 09:19 AM »
I have the 20mm Bosch boring bit that I used to make the holes on my bench with the assistance of the Woodrave template, but I was looking for another option as I got a lot of burning in the MDF, even after fiddling around for a long time with the speed settings on the 1400 as well as my plunge technique.  Festool obviously makes one, and CMT as well, but I was watching this video about vise installation, and towards the end of the video (starting at around 8:12), the guy mounts an end mill bit in his router to drill some dog holes in his bench.  Has anyone used one of these in the 1400 to plunge deep holes in hardwood -- and specifically one with a 20mm diameter (and know a good source for them)?

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/installing-a-vise.aspx
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Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 927
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 09:29 AM »
I have used the Festool 20 mm a lot and have not had any burning problems, admittedly most of my holes were in ply.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6449
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 09:45 AM »
Edward, I would think that the Festool 20mm bit (491 072) that comes in the LR 32 Hole Drilling Set should work with a router, after all that's the audience that the LR 32 Set is targeted towards. It even lists the bit for use with an OF 1010/OF 1400 in the latest Festool catalog on page 83.

However, I have never used that bit. I put 20mm holes in a 1 1/2" maple top using a Zobo bit and a cordless hand drill.


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 542
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 10:08 AM »
How about using a bushing (http://www.fine-tools.com/bankhaken-20mm.html - scroll down all the way) in a jig, used with a bradpoint drill like these http://www.fine-tools.com/holzspiralbohrer.html (also scroll down).

Also of interest: Peter Parfitt’s Jig Set from UJK Axminster.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-102278
All bits included. And tested!
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline TSO Products

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2016, 03:17 PM »
Edward,
curious why you would not use the FESTOOL 20mm bit? what's wrong with it?
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3885
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 04:08 PM »
@TSO Products Nothing in principle.  My thought was simply the end mill bit might be somewhat faster and less prone to burning, given that I plan to use it with the Woodrave template to make a full grid on a revamped workbench of 1 1/2" thick (minimum) hard maple. 

Edward,
curious why you would not use the FESTOOL 20mm bit? what's wrong with it?
Hans
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4217
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 04:18 PM »
My one copy of the Festool 20mm bit makes holes that are about 20.15mm.
Fine for clamps but too loose for dogs.

Oh, this is the 8mm shank Forstner style router bit I'm talking about.


Offline rst

  • Posts: 2239
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 05:07 PM »
Not sure why people have trouble with the Festool 20mm router bit.  I've bored at least 1200 holes for various work tops and my dogs from various sources fit tight and I have no burning issues.   This is partial pic of a 64" X 102" work top with a replaceable center for cross cutting.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1834
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 05:14 PM »
Not sure why people have trouble with the Festool 20mm router bit.  I've bored at least 1200 holes for various work tops and my dogs from various sources fit tight and I have no burning issues.   
This is because the size varies slightly from one bit to another. This problem is not limited to Festool. Variation is not noticeable when you use it for wood joinery, but could become a problem when matching holes and precision dogs.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3885
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2016, 05:27 PM »
Another reason to consider the end mill bit?  Which so far, no one has commented upon :-\

Not sure why people have trouble with the Festool 20mm router bit.  I've bored at least 1200 holes for various work tops and my dogs from various sources fit tight and I have no burning issues.   
This is because the size varies slightly from one bit to another. This problem is not limited to Festool. Variation is not noticeable when you use it for wood joinery, but could become a problem when matching holes and precision dogs.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1834
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2016, 05:32 PM »
Another reason to consider the end mill bit?  Which so far, no one has commented upon :-\

I would expect mills to be made to greater tolerances. I've used them with wood router to cut aluminum and plastic, but not wood or MDF. I'd be worried about their chip extraction efficiency in softer materials.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 06:18 PM »
Another reason to consider the end mill bit?  Which so far, no one has commented upon.

Edward I think the biggest issue is finding a 20mm up-spiral end mill with an 8mm shank. It'd be a rather strange beast I'd bet. You can check MSC or Enco for availability or Google "end mill suppliers".

Offline TSO Products

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2016, 06:34 PM »
Cheese read my mind. I must be missing a key point.
I have a hard time imagining an endmill with such a stepped down shank because there can't be demand for such an animal.
Considering the availability of industrial CNC routers near just about everyone, why struggle with this 20mm /96mm OC hole making?
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Cheese

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2016, 06:42 PM »
Ya Hans I agree...when it comes to end mills, the shank diameter is usually the same as the cutting diameter. It makes the manufacturing process easier and makes the end mill more robust. Besides, the machinist will just swap out the collet he has for the collet he needs. A completely different process than a hand held router where you have maybe 5-6 different collet sizes total, both imperial and metric combined.

BTW...just got my square today...she's sweet.  [cool]
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 09:13 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rollin22Petes

  • Posts: 196
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2016, 07:07 PM »
Cheese brings up a good point with cnc machines you just use the appropriate collet. We have a BIESSE ROVER B cnc in the shop that uses ER/40 collets. I can get a 20mm collet all day long but  for life of me can't seem to locate a 20mm up spiral bit. When it comes to making 20mm holes I usually just use a smaller diameter bit and just program a 20mm internal circle not the best way to go about it as the machining takes longer and the results are not as good.  I would rather do it in a pecking operation so if any guys know were I can find a 20mm up spiral that would be awesome.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2016, 07:17 PM »
Call ONSRUD and ask them - let us know what they say
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6449
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2016, 09:10 AM »
...so if any guys know were I can find a 20mm up spiral that would be awesome.

@Rollin22Petes
I checked out the Onsrud catalog and on page 31 they do offer an upcut 20mm router bit for plastics. I don't know what you're machining but that could be a start.

https://www.onsrud.com/files/pdf/OC-12-ProductionCuttingToolCatalog.pdf

Offline fritter63

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Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2016, 11:07 PM »
Somewhere on this site is a similar thread I started years ago. There is a better 20 mm plunge bit that is listed there. Can't remember who sold it.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4217
Re: 20mm boring bits
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 09:13 AM »
Fritter this thread got sidetracked in looking for more accurate holes. The Festool 20mm boring bit is good at drilling holes but sometimes the holes are slightly oversized so Dogs don't fit well enough.