Author Topic: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question  (Read 23190 times)

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Offline jbarr

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #90 on: August 02, 2022, 11:39 PM »
Probably Microjig's dovetail clamps would work as well.

Chuck I'm impressed that your mortising 5mm stock when the smallest tenon is just under 4mm. Not a lot of wiggle room. I guess this jig makes that possible. BTW I use my home made carmonius version (and soon to buy this jig) for doing small boxes so I also mortise into faces as well as edges. I use an L shaped push block to keep the piece vertical and hard up against the fence using one of the clamping elements clamps. I obviously needed a 20mm hole which I drilled in the middle of the jig. Just another use which works perfectly not shown in any of the videos

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Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2022, 11:27 AM »
John,

I've done Dominoes with 5mm stock before: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/sorting-trays-(5mm-ply)-done-with-df500-4mm-tenons/msg662850/#msg662850

The joinery table will use a shim on the table instead of a shim on the machine, with improved accuracy. The set-up will also be simpler.

Offline Adamsse

  • Posts: 42
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2022, 10:13 PM »
Chuck, Thanks for alerting us to 5mm capability. I just tried that on the Veritas table.  The .093 acrylic + 2 sheets of paper did it.  If you have additional posts or photos on how you have applied this in the past, we would appreciate it.  Sandy

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4694
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2022, 11:00 AM »
Sandy,

The sorting trays are the only project I used 5mm ply on, but I saw the potential of the Veritas joinery table to do similar tasks that require precision and more.

Offline jbarr

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2022, 10:38 PM »
OK me too!
You convinced me Chuck!
The delivery cost, however, is a killer! I guess in a years time I won't remember.

347413-0

John
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 10:56 PM by jbarr »

Offline jbarr

  • Posts: 61
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2022, 11:39 PM »
Look what arrived!
From Canada to Australia in only 6 days from ordering. It often takes longer than that within Australia. I was surprised to see how big it was particularly compared to my Carmonius version and speaking of which I'm so glad he gets a royalty from my purchase. He deserves it! Note the 20mm hole in my home made version. That takes an in line clamp for drilling into faces for small box making. The bigger fence on the Veritas version makes this easier but at this stage I'm not willing to drill a 20mm hole into my brand new table.
Quality, accuracy and tolerances as reported by others are great
I'm still trying to work out what are the best most efficient clamps. I've tried the supplied clamps and changed to a lighter spring like Chuck suggested as well as an Incra clamp, ratchet clamp and home made clamps.
What clamps did you find the most suitable Chuck?347685-0

John
« Last Edit: August 22, 2022, 11:44 PM by jbarr »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2022, 10:33 AM »
John,

After replacing the springs, I've used the hold-downs with no issues. You may want to try out a few springs to find the sweet tension spot. I've also used the Festool Quick Release clamps with success, for example, for holding down the 2mm sheet on the table.



 For workpieces that are too small or too tall to be clamped on, I use a right-angle bracket or block to hold them in place (it's a lot faster, too):



I, too, was surprised by the large package when I picked up my joinery table, and by its size after assembly. I was probably "misled" by the images of the original table that Carmonius shared, and thought that the Veritas version would be similar in size. The large, sturdy table is advantageous in at least two aspects based on my limited use: i) I can butt it against a stop on my bench, and use it without having it clamped to my bench, ii) The large top allows me to work with big and small components.

In my second project making use of the joinery table, I built a couple of drawers to store the accessories, if you haven't read it: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/user-upgrade-to-the-veritas-domino-joinery-table/



« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 12:10 PM by ChuckS »

Offline jbarr

  • Posts: 61
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2022, 03:35 AM »
I thought I'd whip up a quick box, inspired by your box Chuck, to house all the accessories using Kaizen foam. The box is using 4 x 20 dominoes and 12mm MDF. I wasn't game to use 4mm dominoes in a 6mm board.
347783-0

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #98 on: August 25, 2022, 11:18 AM »
Nice organizer!

Were there any major differences in the process or result between using the new and your previous shop-made joinery table? Do you prefer the dovetail clamps over the spring-loaded hold-down clamps given the design of your shop-made jig?

Offline jbarr

  • Posts: 61
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #99 on: August 25, 2022, 05:16 PM »
In terms of results, accuracy and alignment, no difference. Both excellent! Setup and aligning the domino to the fixed fence using a straight edge, no difference. I prefer the way dovetail clamps slide smoothly in their slots but their biggest flaw is that don't swivel 360 deg and you therefore need twice the slots, vertical and horizontal.  The veritas provided clamps are quicker in terms of repeat mortises on the same thickness stock but I wish they would slide more smoothly.

I guess people are asking and I'm asking myself why did I buy the veritas version when I have an equivalent, accurate and fully functioning device. Firstly I use memory sticks instead of the more elegant indexing rod. I made 12 sticks of different lengths that cover most projects. I slide the fence to nearly its correct position and then measure to the appropriate flap on the domino and then grab the nearest stick in length and then slide the fence against the stick. Not efficient but effective. Also I found in some cases I was regretting not making a bigger unit. So I was just about to make a new and improved jig, given I was using it nearly all the time, until I saw the veritas version and I was immediately hooked. The woodpecker version which is too small, would have cost me $1100 USD delivered to Australia (ouch!!) and it offered nothing more in terms of functionality and accuracy but as far as I was concerned its only benefit was not having to use shims but I'm finding them not to be a problem and finally I was tempted to send Carmonius a donation for his brilliant jig but as I said above, buying this unit gave him a royalty
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 06:40 PM by jbarr »

Offline simonh

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2023, 06:56 AM »
Back at you Woodpeckers [wink] It was going to be a while before this was available in the UK and also no doubt even more expensive with the exchange rate and taxes.

Here's mine based on Ola's design and re-mix by Woodpeckers. I made a few design decisions:

1) Shim under the Domino to alter the height as I prefer the repeatability aspect of using fixed shims.
2) Used Microjig dovetail groove for clampling.
3) Used the dovetail track for attaching the square rather than separate holes, which seemed finicky.
4) Added stops on the T-Track so you can setup multiple positions and quickly flip between them.



Here's one for the Woodpecker fans:



And, if you're a hater:



I machined the square out of POM on a Nomad 883 CNC machine. The table is made from HPL (solid phenolic), and the mounting holes and Domino cut-out were machined with a Shaper Origin. Microjig Matchfit grooves routers on Jessem router table, using 8mm clearance pass, then the micro jig special bit for the dovetails.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 06:58 AM by simonh »
-Simon

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2023, 09:54 AM »
That is fantastic @simonh

Did you design the square from scratch?

What is POM?

How did you mount/register the moving leg of the square upside to mill the relief on the underside?

Have you (can you) post this project at the Carbide forum?

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 513
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2023, 10:13 AM »
POM stands for polyoxymethylene, also known as polyacetal. It has properties somewhere between nylon and UHMWPE. It is more flexible than nylon and has the low friction of UHMWPE. If I am not mistaken it is called delrin on your side of the pond? Not 100% sure of that though.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2023, 10:40 AM »
I looked up the name you gave and you’re right, it’s called Delrin over here. Great stuff.

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2023, 11:15 AM »
Nice. People can buy an adjustable guide fence, which is useful for other applications, too.

For those who can afford a bit of time in the shop, they can Google and download a protractor template, and make their own. I use mine with the Veritas Domino Joiner Table:

     

P.S. Life will be made easier if you use 3/4" ply instead of 1/2" ply for the jig (DAMHIK).

 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 11:55 AM by ChuckS »

Offline simonh

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2023, 04:33 AM »
Yes, I designed the square from scratch in Fusion 360.

I use the threaded table on the Nomad with a flattened spoil board mounted to it.

My usual procedure for something like this is to use the origin as the centre hole of the threaded table and the Z origin as the table spoil board. I set up a couple of threaded table jigs on the model, one above and one below the part.



Then, I project a few holes through the model to use as bolting/location points. I lightly double-stick the piece in place and drill the holes to mount the piece to the table with M6 bolts. I then cut the face side.



Then I set up the reverse side in Fusion using the same origin hole on the opposite table. Flip the piece, bolt it down and cut the reverse size. If you got the origin setup good on the Nomad, you should need any changes for the flip. I usually check a couple of X/Y points are where I expect them to be. Otherwise, you might need to shift the X/Y a few thou.



An alternative for a part like this would be to flip the part to re-probe the X/Y for the bottom left of the machined part using the BitZero (manually it is quite hard, with the rounded corner).

Most of the time CNCing parts is thinking through jigs, mounting and where to probe for references.

I'll see about uploading the square to the Nomad forum, although I don't want to upload the entire projector and infringe anyone's design.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2023, 04:39 AM by simonh »
-Simon

Offline Ola C

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    • Carmonius Finsnickeri
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2023, 04:48 AM »
Nice jig with some improvements @simonh.

I like the protractor fence. And I like that the jig looks very pro in phenolic.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2023, 09:53 AM »
Thank you for the illustrated explanation of milling two sides of a complex part. Very helpful.

Offline waho6o9

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    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2023, 11:15 AM »
I wonder if a Sine plate with the MFT holes would be useful.