Author Topic: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question  (Read 23195 times)

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Offline ghjaxman

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2022, 12:15 PM »
I also just order one.  I look forward to using it.  I have a bunch of panel doors to build.

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Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2022, 02:03 PM »
Thanks for the orders…..

…I just ordered one too….!

Now I have to get my Domino back from the R&D department…..

Cheers,

Rob

Online Crazyraceguy

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2022, 08:15 PM »
That is one very good looking unit. Well thought out and professional
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Offline jbarr

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2022, 01:50 AM »
This does look good but I have one concern. The positioning rod is just placed in a hole. How much wiggle room is there now and will that get worse as time goes on? Ola's system for aligning the rod and locking it in seems way better than the one offered here. I made the Ola version as soon as I saw his and absolutely love it but I use a series of 12 memory sticks of different lengths which covers everything I do and is perfectly accurate but I was hoping Lee Valley would have come up with a similar set up Ola's, however their shim system is a big improvement over mine. I was 50/50 on ordering this but I'll stick with my home made job especially given the shipping cost and delivery time to Australia which is always a problem for us woodworkers on things like this. Woodpeckers version would have cost over $1100 USD including a whopping shipping cost of around $400 USD.
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Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2022, 08:26 AM »
Hi,

We went for a simple, replaceable, easy to make design. Hole wear should be insignificant…but should it ever arise, drill another hole beside it, or plug and re-drill, or even put in a hdpe liner…lots of choices.

With our design, you can easily make custom fences for specific applications, and can use the same registration system for all.

Cheers,

Rob


Offline Ola C

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    • Carmonius Finsnickeri
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2022, 09:51 AM »
Hi,

We went for a simple, replaceable, easy to make design. Hole wear should be insignificant…

Cheers,

Rob

Correct me if I'm wrong Rob but looking at the pictures there seems to be a (metal?) bushing in the hole for the positioning rod?

Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2022, 10:30 AM »
D’oh!

Ola is correct….production has a brass sleeve ( our pre-production didn’t)….

Nonetheless - comments above are still relevant….we used this design choice to allow customers to make their own fences.

Would have been able to answer better had I been able to pick up my order!

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2022, 10:38 AM »
D’oh!

Ola is correct….production has a brass sleeve ( our pre-production didn’t)….

Snip.

If the final version didn't come out with a sleeve, I'd probably modify it myself to use it with one anyway!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 10:40 AM by ChuckS »

Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2022, 12:04 PM »
The embarrassing  thing is….I’m the one who suggested the sleeve, and I forgot about it. We did have the discussion around wear, and decided it was a non issue… but didn’t want to argue it…and just added it.

Which I sorta just did anyway….  [big grin]


Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2022, 01:17 PM »
Noticed a unusually interesting Lee Valley mail too yesterday!
Recognised immediately the Carmonius jig  [smile]

It’ll be in my “shopping cart” until later - picking it up from one of LV dealers in Europe or direct from LV at a later point when more need for it.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jbarr

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2022, 03:17 AM »


With our design, you can easily make custom fences for specific applications, and can use the same registration system for all.

Cheers,

Rob

I understand the flexibility of making your own fences.

Rob, can you just buy the positioning rod assembly as a spare part?

If not can anyone provide a link as to where I could buy/make my own

Offline Bob D.

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2022, 06:27 AM »
D’oh!

Ola is correct….production has a brass sleeve ( our pre-production didn’t)….

Nonetheless - comments above are still relevant….we used this design choice to allow customers to make their own fences.

Would have been able to answer better had I been able to pick up my order!

Rob, you didn't go all out and get the optional angle fence that I saw mentioned earlier?
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2022, 11:37 AM »


With our design, you can easily make custom fences for specific applications, and can use the same registration system for all.

Cheers,

Rob

I understand the flexibility of making your own fences.

Rob, can you just buy the positioning rod assembly as a spare part?

If not can anyone provide a link as to where I could buy/make my own

Hi… I can certainly get a price for that…. Shoot me an email at rlee@leevalley.com …. We should have the parts in stock at Veritas.

Cheers -

Rob


Offline Rob Lee

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2022, 11:46 AM »
D’oh!

Ola is correct….production has a brass sleeve ( our pre-production didn’t)….

Nonetheless - comments above are still relevant….we used this design choice to allow customers to make their own fences.

Would have been able to answer better had I been able to pick up my order!

Rob, you didn't go all out and get the optional angle fence that I saw mentioned earlier?

Hi Bob -

No….we didn’t run it, as I’m not convinced of the utility/value over making your own specialty fence.

1. If we had made it, many would have bought it as part of the intro, without questioning the utility of it ….so a risk of disappointing customers long term
2. If you can cut the angles for the piece to Domino, you’re capable of cutting the angle needed for your own fence.
3. Adjustable things can also go out of adjustment….!

It is easy to make though….and we’re willing to do it if there’s enough demand.

Cheers,

Rob

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4694
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2022, 11:56 AM »
Snip.
2. If you can cut the angles for the piece to Domino, you’re capable of cutting the angle needed for your own fence.
3. Adjustable things can also go out of adjustment….!

Snip.

Cheers,

Rob

22.5* is what I foresee doing down the road, and yes, I do plan to use the same shop setting to cut the components as well as the custom fence at the same time when I get to that.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 11:59 AM by ChuckS »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2022, 01:35 PM »
D’oh!

Ola is correct….production has a brass sleeve ( our pre-production didn’t)….

Nonetheless - comments above are still relevant….we used this design choice to allow customers to make their own fences.

Would have been able to answer better had I been able to pick up my order!

Rob, you didn't go all out and get the optional angle fence that I saw mentioned earlier?

Hi Bob -

No….we didn’t run it, as I’m not convinced of the utility/value over making your own specialty fence.

1. If we had made it, many would have bought it as part of the intro, without questioning the utility of it ….so a risk of disappointing customers long term
2. If you can cut the angles for the piece to Domino, you’re capable of cutting the angle needed for your own fence.
3. Adjustable things can also go out of adjustment….!

It is easy to make though….and we’re willing to do it if there’s enough demand.

Cheers,

Rob

Understood.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2022, 09:28 AM »


Need to come up with a suitable project (not another picture frame!) to build to test the jig. ;D


Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2022, 04:42 PM »
Finally here:



Assembly may take some time, but I already have some tentative idea on what to use it for (subject to further study).

Offline jbarr

  • Posts: 61
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2022, 07:51 PM »
Finally here:

(Attachment Link)

Assembly may take some time, but I already have some tentative idea on what to use it for (subject to further study).

Look forward to a review when you've set it up, Chuck
I'm still undecided whether to stick with my home made Carmonius copy, which works well, or go with one of these more professional units

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2022, 02:55 PM »
Look forward to a review when you've set it up, Chuck
I'm still undecided whether to stick with my home made Carmonius copy, which works well, or go with one of these more professional units

I haven't studied his design vs Veritas's in detail, and so I wouldn't know what significant or additional benefits one may have over the other. But this is my initial take (not a review) of the Veritas joinery table.

- Assembly was not much different from putting together an Ikea build (allow about 30 minutes for reading the instructions and assembling the components).
- The table is much larger than I thought, and so, given its weight, I didn't need to clamp it down on the workbench to test it
- The spring-loaded hold-down clamps are clever
- To align and set the machine to the fixed fence, use the movable fence (not a straight edge), as given in the instructions.

For testing the table, I milled some 5mm stock with the 4mm cutter, using shop-made crude 2.5mm thick shims.







Conclusion: The table delivered what it is supposed to. The mating pieces were flush on the faces, although the mortises were not centered.

Why testing with 5mm stock? Because the first project I have in mind to build with the jig will be using 5mm ply -- but I need to find some accurate 2.5mm material to use as shims first.

Improvements made:

1) I replaced the small washers for the knobs with larger ones, but I intend to use large plastic washers if I can find them (or make them)



2) To prevent the offset gauge knob from falling out, I put an O-ring on the rod.







« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 05:01 PM by ChuckS »

Offline jbarr

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2022, 10:44 PM »
Brilliant Chuck! I have two more nagging questions .....

Did you find the indexing/referencing rod (apart from your O ring hack) accurate and remains solid and consistent in that hole?
Did you find only having horizontal slots for clamping adequate? The reason I asked that is because on the carmonius version when drilling into long horizontal boards, like face frames, I used the vertical slots for solid clamping

« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 11:42 PM by jbarr »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2022, 12:08 AM »
I didn't test the offset gauge for accuracy, but I have no reason to believe it isn't. There is no play in the hole. The indexing procedure went pretty smoothly. One potential source for inaccuracy, I'd argue, lies not in the offset gauge but in the paddles/spring stops. Those two paddles need to have the same distance from the center point of the cutter.

I'll check about the clamping aspect further tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 12:12 AM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2022, 10:59 AM »
Jbarr,

Not sure if this mock-up test answers your question. I tried out the hold-downs on a 26" long scrap in a couple of orientations. The holding was rock solid even when I applied only a moderate clamping pressure:




If I understood your concern correctly, I can say that the spring-loaded hold-downs should not present any clamping problem to any stock that can fit on the joinery table.

I also found that for fast clamping, press down the arm (blue arrowed) to the stock before turning (spinning) the knob.



In actual use (at least in most cases), I think I will use only one hold-down at the front given its holding power, and hold the other end of the stock against the fixed or movable fence with my non-dominant hand to provide a counter force to the plunging, just in the same way we usually do when using the DF500 without clamping the stock. I also think that the Veritas joinery table can be used without clamping it down to the bench if the joinery table butts against something (a wall, dogs or planing stop on the bench, etc.), but this isn't something I'm sure at this point in time as I haven't really used it in a project.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 04:44 PM by ChuckS »

Offline jbarr

  • Posts: 61
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2022, 07:52 PM »
Thanks for being so helpful Chuck and yes you answered my concerns perfectly.

Yes the paddles have to be equidistant from the centre of the Domino. All these jigs, woodpeckers, carmonius and veritas are relying on and assume that festool have provided that precision.

John
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 07:58 PM by jbarr »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2022, 11:49 AM »
You're welcome, John. By trying to answer your questions with some test cuts, I came to know about the joinery jig more.

I found enough 6.5mm ply scrap for my project without needing to buy a sheet of 5mm ply:



This also means that I can use the 2mm shim stock that came with the table for the milling. I may still look for some 2.5mm shims for future use.

Offline Sheik Maboutie

  • Posts: 9
Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2022, 05:05 PM »
I built this back in July 2010 to give a better alignment and speed of production, the feed lever worked extremely well giving a much smoother feed.


This was posted on the Festool user forum in August 2010

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2022, 06:48 PM »
This is another version:


Offline Adamsse

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #87 on: August 02, 2022, 04:39 PM »
I just set up and tested my Veritas Domino Joinery table.  I love this accurate capability and affordable price.  However I tried swapping out the clamps with Woodpecker clamps I use on my drill press table.  I find them much easier/quicker to slide down the slot and clamp down on the piece.  I also like the fact they have rubber faces to protect the wood/table.  The Veritas clamps are very effective as well, they just need a little more force to position.  I plan to add a plastic washer under the Veritas clamp metal washer to see if that helps with sliding them.  I wouldn’t have paid for the new WP clamps, but definitely think they will be easier to use when processing multiple pieces.

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #88 on: August 02, 2022, 06:24 PM »
I just set up and tested my Veritas Domino Joinery table.  I love this accurate capability and affordable price. 

Snip.

I, too, found the hold-downs sticky in use, but had a simple solution to it. I replaced the springs with ones that have less tension:



I can now slide the hold-downs without much effort. (I have a similar T-slot hold-down clamp (not spring-loaded) on my drill press, which cost me about $15US.)

I was also experimenting with the use of Festool clamps on the jig this morning. No conclusion has been reached on that yet. I need to look into that further to be sure the clamps won't damage the jig.



About the price. There's no way I could build a joinery table of similar quality at the retail price I paid, even though I have built so many jigs over the years...unless I don't count my hourly rate as a woodworker.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 06:38 PM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: (Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2022, 06:29 PM »
I should also add that I finally found the 2.5mm shim stock for milling 5mm ply material...from HD: