Author Topic: What square to buy for MFT/3 squaring? (Read 93284 times)

shaun.mcc · « **on:** April 01, 2015, 12:00 PM »

Need some help...got my new MFT/3...before I cut on it I need to square it up.

Well, those nice Woodpecker one-time tools make me yearn for a nice speed square or (if I had ordered earlier and was patient) the new Woodpecker MFT square. What all do you recommend? I'm sure my $10.00 speed square is not sufficient

...I have a little 12" Woodpecker (that doesn't sound right)...T-Square.

roblg3 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2015, 12:51 PM »

Any L or triangle shaped square that is about a 1/2" thick should work. AS LONG AS IT'S ACTUALLY SQUARE. Do you know how to check them? I use a WP1281 square for mine it's 8x12" and it works just fine.

them700project · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2015, 01:26 PM »

woodpecker had some options, though I fear you are too late. I didnt pick up an MFT yet but I did order one of the 12 x 18 squares last month. They also had this http://www.woodpeck.com/mftsquare.html

jobsworth · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2015, 02:16 AM »

Woodpeckers 1281 square, it's what they used in the end user classes for years.

http://www.woodpeck.com/1281.html

You can get them at woodcraft and most woodworking stores

Birdhunter · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2015, 08:11 AM »

I use the Woodpecker "framing" square along with Qwas dogs. The combination is excellent for squaring the fence. Another great and inexpensive addition to the MFT is the Slop Stop. It fits into a groove under the fence and eliminates side to side movement. If you call Woodpeck directly, sometimes they have a few discontinued tool in the shop. Thats how I got the framing square.

I also use the framing square to true up the miter gauge on my table saw.

grbmds · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2015, 01:31 PM »

If you really want a Woodpecker's Framing Square or MFT Square, I would check with Woodpecker's. I was at the Milwaukee WW Show a couple of weeks ago and Woodpecker's still had the Framing Squares yet. I would also guess that it's possible they might still take an order for the MFT Square, but this is not something you'd have for at least 2 - 3 months as it is now being made. If you want something immediate, check on the Framing Square. If they have any, they would ship them right away. Please do a search on FOG and check online for videos. There are a number of options for squaring the fence to the guide rail and using dogs to get a square cut with the rail. There are also some different options to checking squareness once you set the MFT up. The problem for me was there were too many choices so I just simplified it. I square it up using what I currently feel is my most accurate square, then do a quick check on some scrap and leave it at that. As long as the end result works for what I am making, I am happy. Plus, I've found that cuts with the TS55, MFT, and guide rail are more accurate and square than my old table saw, so regardless, I am now getting a better result overall.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2015, 01:43 PM »

Can you buy Engineers' squares in the US? In the UK they conform to a quite stringent standard and a 12" square is about 55 UK pounds which at the moment must be about $70.

As an aside, in North America how does the UK pound sign appear - here it is £55 ?

Peter

leer · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2015, 02:55 PM »

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on April 02, 2015, 01:43 PM

Can you buy Engineers' squares in the US? In the UK they conform to a quite stringent standard and a 12" square is about 55 UK pounds which at the moment must be about $70.

As an aside, in North America how does the UK pound sign appear - here it is £55 ?

Peter

Peter,

I'd hesitate to guess how most here would represent "currency" pounds. I would not be surprised to see it as "55 lbs." ...

I see dollars represented as 70$ as often as $70.

And regarding typing, you would be hard pressed to figure out how to type the "£" here. (I cheated and cut and paste from your post!).

TequilaTony · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2015, 02:57 PM »

This is only opinion but you can square it up using a couple Qwas dogs and a decent dial caliper if you trust the CNC hole pattern which I do.

1) I used 2 qwas dogs to set the back fence parallel to the table holes by placing the qwas dogs in the holes and butting the back fence up to them. This ensures the back fence is parallel to the horizontal hole pattern.
2) I then moved he dogs to the vertical pattern and measured the distance to from the rail edge to dog.

There are a couple youtube videos of others using a similar technique.

ear3 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2015, 02:58 PM »

I use a 32" Woodpecker T-square (which is always on sale and not a OTT) and a dedicated scrap piece of ply a little smaller than the size of the table top. Simply line up the splinterguard with the pencil mark and I'm good. Advantage for me is I can be proof-positive of squareness by simply making a small off-cut of the scrap board.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2015, 03:20 PM »

My iPad "keyboard" has the £ sign.

Amazon has a number of engineer's squares listed.

Funny story about UK pounds. I was getting a haircut by my lady barber a long time ago and I mentioned I was going to London. I mentioned I had already bought my Pounds. She stopped cutting. After a long pause, she asked "pounds of what?" This same lady told me she had been hiking near a river and had slipped on the rocks because they were covered with allergies.

grbmds · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2015, 03:37 PM »

You can buy engineer squares in the US. However, I have not found anything 12". The largest I have found was 8" and I assume that is only on one side with the other side being much less. They are very accurate though and I've used one of my small ones to square up the rail to the fence on the MFT. It actually is about as good as using larger squares. I actually did buy the MFT Square. It is nice because of it high sides and the length of each side and, of course, I doubt accuracy is an issue. It was an extravagance that I question even now. I just felt it had multiple uses for me and I really didn't have an accurate square of that size. I've seen it in person at a WW Show. Just looking at it made me want right then. (Kind of a human flaw, I think. Maybe counseling can remedy it.)

Birdhunter · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2015, 05:35 PM »

Traditionalwoodworker.com advertises a 12" machinist square the conforms to British Standard 939 and has a guaranteed tolerance of less than 0.001" per inch over the entire length of the blade. This is both inside and outside the surfaces. The price is $37.95USD.

However, I think 12" is far too small for aligning the MFT fence.

shaun.mcc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2015, 09:51 PM »

Thanks everyone. I will call Woodpecker and see if they have any of the 18" speed squares or other options...I like the Qwas dogs idea...as I believe in the precision of the CNC milled holes.

bkharman · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2015, 11:01 PM »

I hardly use the rail and pivot anymore. I generally use my Precision Dogs and Precision Rail Dogs to setup. I need to shot a video of it but I can use the rail dogs with the rail for ease of cutting or I can use the rail/rail dogs combo to set the flip down rail. You can use any dogs to do the flip fence setup but some folks don't like to put kerf lines through the dog holes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers. Bryan.

Stevec717 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2015, 01:50 PM »

FWIW I was late to the party for the Woodpecker MFT setup. I just got my table in March. I saw the square and said to myself " missed it by that much!" And a beautiful one time tool.

On a whim I emailed Woodpeckers around end of March and they said sure- they could add me! So I'm waiting for an MFT setup square.

If you like the MFT square, don't give up until you contact them. It's also possible that since people don't pay until they ship (and with this being a pretty expensive item) that some people could drop out or cancel (lives and priorities change), opening up allocations.

Worth a try.

Steve

JonSchuck · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2015, 02:29 PM »

Quote from: Stevec717 on April 05, 2015, 01:50 PM

FWIW I was late to the party for the Woodpecker MFT setup. I just got my table in March. I saw the square and said to myself " missed it by that much!" And a beautiful one time tool.

On a whim I emailed Woodpeckers around end of March and they said sure- they could add me! So I'm waiting for an MFT setup square.

If you like the MFT square, don't give up until you contact them. It's also possible that since people don't pay until they ship (and with this being a pretty expensive item) that some people could drop out or cancel (lives and priorities change), opening up allocations.

Worth a try.

Steve

I think some of the more popular "one time tools" such as their 26X16 square, they make every couple years.

ScotF · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2015, 06:23 PM »

One of the squares mentioned by Woodpeckers is great. I also use a piece of plywood cut square with the 5 cut method and that works really well too.

rst · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2015, 07:06 PM »

I used a dial digital dial indicator and dogs to set up my MFT and then made blocks to use on a regular basis for ease.

montyss · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2015, 09:43 PM »

After just getting the MFT/3 a little more than a month ago I made up a large Corian triangle on it to setup the fence and rail .
Started with the table saw to get a really good edge to start from then used the mft for the 45 deg cut
after it was cut there was no wiggle with the 4 dogs on the mft

vkumar · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2015, 10:37 PM »

Quote from: montyss on April 05, 2015, 09:43 PM

After just getting the MFT/3 a little more than a month ago I made up a large Corian triangle on it to setup the fence and rail .
Started with the table saw to get a really good edge to start from then used the mft for the 45 deg cut
after it was cut there was no wiggle with the 4 dogs on the mft

That looks very impressive. Can you please explain step by step how you obtained the two right angle sides? The 45 degree I can understand after you have the 2 sides at 90 deg.
Vijay

shaun.mcc · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:45 PM »

I got an order in with Woodpeckers for the MFT Square list...I watched the YouTube video for the tool...seems to have other uses. In the mean time I can use the 3/4/5 triangle formula, but I'll also get Qwas dogs.

Thanks!

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2015, 04:03 PM »

I make do with my 12 " engineer's square and it is jolly accurate. You might be interested to take a look at the video below from about the 5 minute 20 second point to see just how accurate the MFT3 holes are (rows versus columns):

Peter

shaun.mcc · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2015, 06:33 PM »

Thanks Peter, will do!

SereN · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:57 AM »

I'm looking to buy a square for my MFT as well, and did some investigating already. I started with Woodpecker and Starlett products in my mind, but came to the conclusion that there are other, more affordable, options available. (Albeit with less other uses, besides being square)

I'm talking about the 'engineer's or machinist' squares Peter already mentioned. In the UK they use the BS 939 standard, in Europe the DIN875 standard. For me it's important to use a square manufactured according to a given standard. I was hearing a lot of people complaining about cheaper squares that weren't actually square, or had some 'play' (over time).

The DIN875 standard stipulates 4 grades: 00, 0, 1 and 2 (in decreasing accuracy)
Tolerances per grade: http://www.thome-precision.com/DIN875.html

I'm thinking the least accurate grade 2 is actually sufficient (for my use). A din875 grade 2 square with a short leg of 300mm (~12") will have af maximum fault of 0,05mm, extrapolated to 1mm at 20m.

What I'm still debating (for use with the MFT) is to go for a flat square, or one with a back:

And what size I would get. I'm thinking about a 500x250mm model (20"x10"), as I'll still be able to use it in 600mm (24") high/wide cabinets.

What do you think?

grbmds · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:02 PM »

I would pick a square that has a "back". I have found that it is more convenient and easier to square up the rail/fence on the MFT with a square that allows you to raise the guide rail above the table. Just my preference.

Picktool · « **Reply #26 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:46 PM »

Quote from: Stevec717 on April 05, 2015, 01:50 PM

FWIW I was late to the party for the Woodpecker MFT setup. I just got my table in March. I saw the square and said to myself " missed it by that much!" And a beautiful one time tool....

Peckers told me last week that I was able to get MFT square,
but I changed my mind after I made one at work on the router.

WelshWood · « **Reply #27 on:** May 07, 2015, 07:52 AM »

Do woodpecker have a UK site, or exclusive the US?

~WW

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #28 on:** May 07, 2015, 08:54 AM »

Quote from: WelshWood on May 07, 2015, 07:52 AM

Do woodpecker have a UK site, or exclusive the US?

~WW

Hi WW,

You can get Woodpeckers kit from The Woodworkers Workshop here in the UK.

http://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/

I should add that Woodpeckers can be a little slow in keeping the supply line to the UK flowing but Woodworkers Workshop are a great bunch to deal with.

Peter

jobsworth · « **Reply #29 on:** May 07, 2015, 04:20 PM »

Quote from: WelshWood on May 07, 2015, 07:52 AM

Do woodpecker have a UK site, or exclusive the US?

~WW

You can also order their stuff and a lot of other good stuff from Woodcraft. They do ship International. A bud of mine just ordered the Jessum stock guides from them.

www.Woodcraft.com