Author Topic: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.  (Read 3083 times)

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Offline FestitaMakool

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Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« on: May 07, 2020, 12:13 PM »
Moved this topic here in order not to hijack another thread.

@Coen

Don’t know if this helps, but yes I had quite a long time adjusting an dialling in my CS 50.
Me too did not think it should be like this, it’s not a cheap saw...

I did recently find out a small detail that I had overlooked. The plastic end cap on the fence, LA-CS 50/CMS was mounted upside down from factory. This meant that the locking lever for rear of the fence was quite sticky and hard to move, and made a squeaking sound when tightened. That sliding aluminium part of the fence which are reversible did not rest perpendicular to the main fence, leaning slight inwards because of interference with the two very small profiles on the rear plastic end cap. First I shaved that one side a bit, but suddenly I see its mounted upside down.
Reversing this end cap to its right position straightened everything, even the action on the lever.
See photo below (in the photo it is in the right orientation, the circles and arrows point out the areas that interfered with the sub-fence.

It's never forced to move the same on both ends. Seems a €800 Dewalt (including the parallel fence) is more accurate on that part than the Festool (which sells separate for €300). My brother asked me about a table saw, and I advised him to look beyond a CS 50 (which I use). The CS 50 table isn't even flat, the fence isn't perpendicular to the table, the table is tilted downward closer to the saw... meh. And everything seems to be just not stiff enough. Eg cutting plates with the sliding table (492100) doesn't seem to give more repeat accuracy than just measuring it out and cutting with TS55 and rail.

Honestly, I think that is a shame.

“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

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Online Coen

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2020, 12:44 PM »
Well, that is yet another problem that I didn't even talk about. I never bought the LA fence because it was already too disappointing in the store. If I see how easy and apparently accurate you can move the parallel fence on a Dewalt table... makes me wonder why Festool can't achieve the same, regardless of cost. Especially now that they release a new product... with new fence... new dimensions... new sliding table... new everything... I would expect such problems to be solved. That it's not is disappointing.

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2020, 01:25 PM »
I don’t disagree with you. Bearing in mind that they did bring a totally new saw, new moulds, new dimensions. Still even with the V grove, protractor-fence and sliding table, it could still have been backwards compatible.

I’ve done some adjustments to the parallel fence, and it now moves freely, I use the micro adjust feature too, but it’s no where near a geared fence, but still good to use. Actually, the protractor fence annoys me more, but it’s nice with the sliding table at least.
I did also reposition the gliding pad under the fence, it helped too - moving it inwards to the table. The micro adjuster I re-did with squeezing in a plastic washer to aid smoothness. I’m gonna do that one over, to get it real tight and smooth. Again, it should have been from the factory in the first place.

My table inserts are ok.. the left one, which is removable have a slight slop, and needs to be pushed down. Then again, with the weight of stock (and me) it’s no big deal.

I’m aware of this not being a proper shop saw, but very compact, capable with the pull saw and highly movable. I steered away from the CS 70, as it was too much bulk. The TKS 80 is so expensive and heavy, soo.. I’d rather think shop saw instead.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2020, 11:02 AM »
Ive been using that fence on my CMS. I been getting pretty bad cuts .Ive also found it difficult to slide back and forth on the rear V groove.Kept getting hung up especially where the extension table and the saw stand meet.

 Ive tried adjusting it everyway I could think of.

In full disclosure I did disaasemble it and its had a hard time sliding on the rear V groove getting hung up.

I almost got rid of this fence. As of about a year ago its been sitting on a shelf in my shop.

I have since used the angle stop as my fence as its all adjusted in and makes a pretty good cut.

 Ill check to see if I installed the black plastic cap in the correct postition and realign it. I found that you do have to adjust for the toe in that the TS 75 has inorder to get a decent cut.

I did that by loosening the 4 allen head screws underneath the fences head which allows the fence to swing freely for adjustment.

So Ill check out the black cap and give it a go and see if it helps.


UPDATE:

I ran out to the shop and checked the rear of the fence. the black cap was upside down so I switched it to match your photo. I havent rtried the fence yet , but the screws tightened a lot more like they should have. Meaning I was having a hard time tightening them. funny I had factory reps out looking at it and no one picked up on that black cap being upside down.

im finding festool though they are very good tools I have a shop almost entirely made of them, they do have some quirks about them. I just learned from another user here who I really respect and is respected here that the FT scraper has to have the string  wrapped exactly like the photo on the box or it will not work properly and gouge the veneer on the ply if not wrapped properly and used with the string UNDER the scraper.

Weird
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 11:25 AM by jobsworth »

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2020, 06:53 PM »
Ah.. the scraper.. is a specialist tool. Which I suppose you need to learn how to use, but it sounds not very intuitive saying that the string being an important part of the tool..
I’ll ask my buddy about it - I suspect he does know these as he did/does car paint, would be fun to learn anyway.

So good to hear that you also found this cap the wrong way - well it’s not very obvious unless really examine what’s going on - I found out about it when that small protruding part did catch the sliding and reversible fence, and it even made the sliding fence lean inwards. Now it’s dead square to the table. (CS 50 Precisio that is)
Earlier I found that adjusting the V grove profile on the extension table to match the UNDERSIDE of the V profile on the main chassis (CMS-GE or CS 50) the fence didn’t catch and hung up anymore. There’s obviously a small bump in the transition, but it’s nowhere getting stuck now.
You do that by loosening the hex bolts holding the V profile to the aluminium table.

Before doing some very successful cuts (with the protractor and sliding table) that was perfectly square on some 3/4”/18mm plywood today I decided to calibrate the fence since I had wrenched on it..
Ohh well 😡 One of the four hex bolts you mention was over tightened by the factory, leaving me to disassemble once again to hold the nut inside, since it was seized. (Se the bolt after some cleaning below) Bauhaus once again came to the rescue - buying new hex bolts and square nuts (Thanks to Bauhaus for stocking odd hardware! It’s becoming rarer and rarer sadly!)
So, now the fence only need redoing the bolt that does micro adjust, that particular is slightly rubbing once a half turn due to an uneven nut or bent bolt. I want smooth.. Festool smooth.. this fence has not been, too much on one item.

And, of course. The small screws that let you calibrate the ruler you align the fence to, both on the main chassis and extension table - well they need washers! Listen Festool, Metabo or whoever - these screws dig into the plastic when turned to seat - a washer limits the mechanical wear and prohibits you moving the part that you just adjusted... everyone ignores washers here, including on the acrylic arrow on the Kapex 120, Metabo tools and more. And the momentum of the screw moves the piece that should be dead still😡

Frustration realeased!  [big grin]


« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 06:57 PM by FestitaMakool »
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2020, 07:36 PM »
Thanks for the info.

Oh BTW I was talking about the scaper for the conturo for cleaning up the left over glue.


 Ill put the extension back on the saw and adj the way you suggested w the underside of the V groove level. Say how do you make sure the extension table is square to the saw table?   If the extension isnt perfectly square with the saw base then the fence will be out of alignment with the saw.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 07:39 PM by jobsworth »

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2020, 08:13 PM »
Glad to help!

Oh, I thought it was that paint/blemish scraper.. maybe I’m mixing?

Extension table, well now I had to think back and check. I remember I aligned the inside bottom (or the whole inside) of the V profile to run as perfectly straight with the main chassis V as this is where the plastic V “bushing” on the protractor aligns the fence - I laid emphasis on this side first and foremost as this “corrects” the fence. It’s a bit PITA since the V profile on the main chassis is slightly thicker than the aluminium extrusion on the side table.. but I managed to get everything working as smooth as possible. If you use a straight edge ruler or similar on the outside it’s profiles will have slight parallel offset - the inside is what’s important.

I just double checked, in case I had overlooked something (I haven’t cut any really wide pieces lately) But, if I set the fence now to 50cm (500mm) and measured to the rear tooth of the blade with the saw in it’s parked position it’s dead on. Same if I move the saw(blade) at full stroke forward (pull saw..) and measure at a tooth up front it’s the same: 500mm.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2020, 09:49 PM »
Thanks, I havent used the extension in a while. Just the main saw. I will have to make some cuts this coming week. Ill see how the fence works then go play with the side extension getting that set up.

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 05:47 PM »
Good luck, looking forward to hear if you experience improvements!
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2020, 08:54 PM »
thanks it will be a bit before I can play with it. In the middle of another project. I do have to make a few cuts with it but no need for te extension table yet. But Ill let ya know when I get to it

Online Coen

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 10:58 PM »
Ok, so (some) were sold assembled the wrong way. But that that does not take away from the fact they are wrong by design.

Just look at the Parallel fence of a Dewalt DWE7492. Yummie! And that whole thing is ~720 euros, while the -LA is ~220
Well; don't look at the insanely small mitre gauge; since that definitely looks wobbly, but that is still easy to fix. And don't look at the weird 30 agree angle limit on it...  ::)
But still; it got the parallel fence right.

When buying Festool I am not looking to get the cheapest deal but the highest quality. Sadly, the Festool parallel fence is not close to either. And now that they came out with a new table I would expect a fixed parallel fence. But nope.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 11:14 AM »
I thought about why hasn't FT or after market come up with a front Locking Biesmeyer type fence for the CS 50/70/CMS as the fences with the the rear locking component seem to have simular issues of not locking square.

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 06:09 PM »
I thought about why hasn't FT or after market come up with a front Locking Biesmeyer type fence for the CS 50/70/CMS as the fences with the the rear locking component seem to have simular issues of not locking square.

@jobsworth - Do you have a technical description or a link to a Biesmeyer type fence?
I’m just curious, as I don’t know what it is... [embarassed]

I do share your thoughts about the FT fence, but then again - I had an early DeWalt saw, with the fence only locking at the front, this was flexing at the rear. My late Bosch XC table saw had locking rear end. But this was easy to lock in a none square angle as it seemed to lock front and back simultaneously. So, when experiencing Festool’s fence I kind of liked it, as it squares up at the front first, and then with a second action you lock the rear - as a slave to the front lock. At least in theory that makes sense.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 06:14 PM »
Pretty much all the fences on the full sized table saws are modeled aft te Beismeyer. It had a railon the front of the saw and when you tightened the fence it would clap to the rail tightly automatically squareing the fence to the place. The jet and powermatic are the way.
 The saw stop well everything above the site saw has a front locking fence
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:19 PM by jobsworth »

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 06:34 PM »
Ah.. had a closer look when DuckDuckGo’d it.
Hmm, shouldn’t be difficult for an aftermarket supplier to provide one, or even Festool should be able to make one to fit existing V groove. Guess there’s to few saws sold from Festool and too proprietary to be interesting for a aftermarket company.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2020, 10:37 AM »
@FestitaMakool

Just to let you know, I used the saw yesterday with the adjustments and it did a pretty good job. Just cutting plywood to 3" strips. After swapping the black cap at the rear of the fence it locked dow a lot tighter ad straighter. Did a pretty good job.

Thanks for your help.

Once my shop gets built and I get it set up Ill be useing it a lot more on different wood species. Ill let ya know how it does

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2020, 05:36 PM »
Ah, that sounds good!
Glad it worked out better for you too.

I recently spoke to a fellow Festool fan and user that recently got a CS 50. Asked him about his fence, and his was too tight on the lever - and he had noticed the difference to yet another colleague who also had a CS 50 - his was easier to lock. Presumably the other fellows fence was assembled correctly. Obviously I gave him the photo and advised him to check up on the end cap.

Another thought; when I squared the fence I made a very slight toe in with a difference front to back of the blade of approximately less than half a millimetre to the fence. How do you experienced woodworkers adjust yours? Do you go all parallel or toe in to the fence? (presumably to avoid kick back)
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2020, 09:39 PM »
I use a toe in. In the case of the CS50 fence I raide the blade to its highest point, run the fence to the blade ,loosen the 4 bolts under the head use a business card between the rear tooth of the blade and the fence and tighten everything back up. Gives me a slight toe in. Same one I use to adj my TS 55

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Parallel fence LA-CS 50/CMS Troubleshooting.
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2020, 02:31 PM »
I use a toe in. In the case of the CS50 fence I raide the blade to its highest point, run the fence to the blade ,loosen the 4 bolts under the head use a business card between the rear tooth of the blade and the fence and tighten everything back up. Gives me a slight toe in. Same one I use to adj my TS 55

Good tip and technique. Then I think I’m in the same ball park with toe-in.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”