Author Topic: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB  (Read 1733 times)

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Offline WestMan_Canada

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Hello all

I just obtained a lightly used Kapex KS120 EB.

Based on my experience with other (non Kapex) miter saws, it seems that the miter turret on this saw seems to have a lot of friction drag.  It will move but it just doesn't swivel as freely as I expect it should.

I have studied the instructions and understand how the Miter Stop Release Lever and Miter Lock Lever need to be disengaged to swivel the turret around through the range of miter angles.

I'm hoping someone can tell me:

1) Other than the Miter Stop Release Lever and Miter Lock Lever are there any other locks or controls that need to be released to allow the miter turret to swivel?

2) Are these saws prone to accumulation of sawdust in the turret mechanism and if so how to clean?

3) There must be some adjustment that sets (or effects) the friction drag - can anyone tell me where it is and how to adjust it?

Thanks much.

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Offline ChuckS

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2022, 10:49 AM »
The stickiness sounds normal to me. The Kapex(at least for the EB) is famous / infamous for that.

As long as it cuts precisely and accurately, I wouldn't touch the settings.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 10:51 AM by ChuckS »

Offline WestMan_Canada

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2022, 01:03 PM »
The stickiness is NOT "normal".

Here is a post going back to 2013 discussing the problem, so I'm not the only one:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-miter-table-adjustment/

What I need to know is if anyone has found a way of correcting / adjusting it.

It looks like the stack at  items 106, 107, 108 and 133 in the parts diagram might be the answer and I'm wondering if anyon ehas tried that.


Offline ChuckS

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2022, 01:20 PM »
Could you shoot a video to show how sticky yours is?

Hard to tell what sticky means to different owners. My Kapex and the other one I've used are both a lot more "sticky" unlike the Dewalt and Bosch miter saws I had used or owned. I'll get a chance to use the REB later this week, and will see if it's much different from the EB on that aspect.

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2022, 02:03 PM »
I'm not sure a video would help much.
What matters is that it's so sticky (or more correctly tight) that changing the miter angle is about enough to "tip" the UG cart its mounted on.
The only way this could maybe work the way it is would be if it were bolted to bench at least then it wouldn't tip anything over, but even then it would still make too much effort to swivel.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2022, 02:50 PM »
Well, as a Kapex owner since 2010 I can tell you that mine has never rotated freely like my previous miter saws.

If I were in your situation I would suggest tipping the saw over and spraying everything that would seem to be involved in the rotation with a drylube product and then work everything around and see if your situation improves.  Might even suggest that you try it again.

I have used garage door lube in the past with improvement.

Just a suggestion,

Peter

Offline WestMan_Canada

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2022, 02:51 PM »
Here's another FOG thread that deals with this issue:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/is-my-kapex-bad/

It appears that in this case there MIGHT have been a warped casting to blame.

Offline Cheese

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2022, 02:55 PM »
See reply 3 & 4 on the FOG discussion you just posted

Plus you can then lubricate the offending items.

#3
Replys on this forum - quoting Festool advice - suggest loosening the pivot nut about 1/8 turn to allow the miter adjustment to move more freely. HTH.

Joe Ewing
Las Cruces, NM

#4
The miter table was designed to be stiff to prevent movement if you made a cut without locking it down.

Like Joe mentioned, if you find this bothersome loosen off the pivot nut just a little.

Dan Clermont
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 03:15 PM by Cheese »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2022, 02:58 PM »
Here's another FOG thread that deals with this issue:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/is-my-kapex-bad/

It appears that in this case there MIGHT have been a warped casting to blame.

That thread dealt with an issue that some of the very first Kapex's brought into North America exhibited.  Those saws were found to have an issue with the miter plate (that part that has the degrees marked on it that was too exact and could cause scraping and binding.).

It had nothing to do with a warped casting.

Just a FYI>

Peter

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2022, 03:43 PM »
@ Peter Halle

Now we're getting somewhere -  the saw in question was bought in 2012 ; I wonder if that would make it from one of the first batches into NA?

Please tell me more about this scale plate issue i.e. was it A) warped  B) too thick / tall  C) too wide ??

If that (and not the pivot bolt) turns out to be the issue I wonder if a new scale plate would be the fix?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2022, 04:12 PM »
The plate issue predates even my 2010 model so I doubt that is the issue.

Exactly what the size issue I am not certain of and would hate to speculate and be inaccurate.

Seriously, try lubing and then possibly loosen the bolt mentioned.

Peter

Offline jimbo51

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2022, 08:45 AM »
My Kapex was an early one that received a DIY fix with parts sent out by Festool. Is it possible that a saw bought in 2012 was old stock from the initial release?

Offline WestMan_Canada

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 08:50 AM »
@ Jimbo
@jimbo51

Can you tell us what part(s) Festool sent you and / or what reapir they made?
I'm trying to narow this down before I start dismantling the whole thing...

<<Edit:  modified callout - P.Halle - Moderator>>
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 08:58 AM by Peter Halle »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 10:45 AM »
Snip.

#4
The miter table was designed to be stiff to prevent movement if you made a cut without locking it down.

Snip.
Learned something new about the Kapex.

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 10:56 AM »
this is known as "Feature the Failure"  - its like saying:

The car trunk pops open in order to prevent you from locking your keys inside
OR
The program loses your data after five minutes to keep others from ever seeing it



Offline ChuckS

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2022, 11:00 AM »
I'll find out soon if that "failure" persists and remains a feature in the REB model. I'm trying one out this week.

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2022, 11:17 AM »
I think
1) Some minority of users may actually like this feature
2) There must be some way of adjusting it to be easier to swivel - I am just rying to determine what that is and the extent to which adjustment is possible without modifying the swivel shaft bolt OD /  of swivel bushing ID

I particularly want to understand if there might be something else (other than the pivot bolt) that is introducing friction - eg like the lock mechanism itself...

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 359
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2022, 12:38 PM »
[quote author=WestMan_Canada l

I particularly want to understand if there might be something else (other than the pivot bolt) that is introducing friction - eg like the lock mechanism itself...
[/quote] hi, as you see from the photo the scale #118 is worn,#114 has a pin that rides on top and#115 clamps against that to lock, so it is stiff or rubs for a reason.Mine is 2009 and has loosen up over the years  and I'm glad it clamps hard on those 1/2 degree and less cuts.

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2022, 12:51 PM »
@guybo

Brilliant - this my well be it.

I presume the pin you are referring to is #113 which is pushed down onto the scale plate by the "paddle"  #115?

Offline Cheese

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Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2022, 12:55 PM »
I think
1) Some minority of users may actually like this feature
2) There must be some way of adjusting it to be easier to swivel - I am just rying to determine what that is and the extent to which adjustment is possible without modifying the swivel shaft bolt OD /  of swivel bushing ID

1. I like it, my old Milwaukee's would move from time to time if the handle wasn't fully tightened. That was a real PITA.

2. Just pull out the zero clearance insert and you can adjust the drag using a 13 mm socket. From the factory, the nut is tightened to 180-185 in/lbs. I found I liked the action better when the nut is torqued to 50-60 in/lbs. It's a bit easier to move yet it's still stiff enough to not move accidentally.





« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 01:00 PM by Cheese »

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2022, 01:02 PM »
@ Cheese

Thanks!  This is actionable information. I will try it and report results.
Hopefully this discussion will help others in future.

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 359
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2022, 02:45 PM »
@guybo

Brilliant - this my well be it.

I presume the pin you are referring to is #113 which is pushed down onto the scale plate by the "paddle"  #115?
Hi, sorry I was not clear #114 has a molded pin and#115 squeeze the scale when the lever is pushed down,#113 has a quantity of 7 used on the scale and I'm guessing#112

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3591
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2022, 07:27 PM »
I tried out the REB, and it wasn't like the EB. The turntable in REB glides and works like other miter saws I used in the past.





The motor problem indeed has been fixed! [big grin]

Offline WestMan_Canada

  • Posts: 41
Re: HELP: Sticky Binding Miter Turret Swivel on Kapex KS120 EB
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2022, 04:08 PM »
I just found this YouTube vid that discusses the table sticking problem in K120 EB.
Fast forward to 4:13 min to see that discusion.
In the comments to that video (screen shot attached)  I also found a reference to a Festool warranty on that issue.