Author Topic: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline gearhound

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Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« on: January 15, 2021, 01:39 PM »


This is the Mk. 1 system and I was having an issue with my drill chuck causing the top of the bit to tearout a bit and no longer fit through the parf boring guide hole.

In an effort to chuck it up a lot less, I just bought this Makita chuck adapter. It says it has a capacity of 1.5-10mm, so I chucked up the  bit and cut my 1st hole. It wasn't deep enough, so I went to reposition the bit in the chuck and the d$mn thing is stuck in there!!! No idea how I could remove it without just cutting it off? Seems any force applied will screwup the whole guide. Is there a place to just order the Mk. 2 boring bit? 

Any things I could try to extract this?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 02:36 PM by gearhound »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2021, 01:49 PM »
I'm trying to understand what the problem is:

The shaft of the drill bit is 10.06mm in diameter and you chucked it in a 3/8"/10mm chuck and now it doesn't open anymore?

The chuck opens but the drill bit is still stuck/ the jaws don't disengage?

Have you tried countering the chuck when trying to open it? (Put a key in that little hole.)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Alex

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2021, 01:51 PM »

Offline gearhound

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2021, 01:57 PM »
I'm trying to understand what the problem is:

The shaft of the drill bit is 10.06mm in diameter and you chucked it in a 3/8"/10mm chuck and now it doesn't open anymore?

The chuck opens but the drill bit is still stuck/ the jaws don't disengage?

Have you tried countering the chuck when trying to open it? (Put a key in that little hole.)

Kind regards,
Oliver

The jaws won't disengage. I've never used a chuck like this before, the little hole isn't a hex key it appears to just be a circle....is there another key I should try? I remember when I was a kid my Dad had a corded drill that used a similar chuck, but that was before my time so I'm clueless.

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2021, 01:58 PM »
]

Already hit it with WD40...I'll destroy the shaft of the bit trying to extract it with pliers, it needs to stay precise for boring and smooth removal through the guides.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2021, 02:04 PM »
Is it possible that the “little hole” is to insert a round bar like aPhillips screw driver and then twist the upper ring?
Birdhunter

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2021, 02:12 PM »
Makita says this chuck is to be opened and closed by using the impact driver's (which it is designed for) forward and reverse settings and grabbing the chuck's sleeve. The way an impact driver works, this is pretty safe - do not try this with a regular drill/driver! An be careful not to make contact with the drill bit.

But if the shaft diameter of that drill bit is 10.06mm and it's a 10.00 mm chuck, this will prove interesting.

If you have a key for a standard jacobs chuck, chance is good the round part will fit in that little hole and allow you to counter the chuck while opening it. But any rod that fits the hole will do in the end, just be careful to not hurt yourself if it slips out ...


Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Alex

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2021, 02:20 PM »
]

Already hit it with WD40...I'll destroy the shaft of the bit trying to extract it with pliers, it needs to stay precise for boring and smooth removal through the guides.

A little scratching is not destroying. And it probably is already scratched from inserting it in the chuck. 

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2021, 02:26 PM »
Makita says this chuck is to be opened and closed by using the impact driver's (which it is designed for) forward and reverse settings and grabbing the chuck's sleeve. The way an impact driver works, this is pretty safe - do not try this with a regular drill/driver! An be careful not to make contact with the drill bit.

But if the shaft diameter of that drill bit is 10.06mm and it's a 10.00 mm chuck, this will prove interesting.

If you have a key for a standard jacobs chuck, chance is good the round part will fit in that little hole and allow you to counter the chuck while opening it. But any rod that fits the hole will do in the end, just be careful to not hurt yourself if it slips out ...


Kind regards,
Oliver

Thanks, Oliver! I just used my impact driver and it came right out! Still wondering why my drill wasn't able to open the jaws..not enough force?

I'm also wondering what the best way will be to cut all these holes as I'm not going to be using the Makita chuck anymore and my Ridgid drill's chuck keeps ripping into the shaft of the bit? Really would like to get my hands on a Mk. 2 boring bit!

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2021, 02:56 PM »
Does your bit have a straight shaft?

Offline gearhound

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2021, 02:58 PM »
Does your bit have a straight shaft?

Yes

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2021, 02:58 PM »
The way an impact driver works, it's easier to hold the sleeve and the impacts are more likely to loosen it than a regular drill that you can't counter by hand, and just pulls through.

If the other chuck doesn't get a good grip on the shaft of the drill bit, basically what you describe as tear out, means that the jaws slip.

Reasons:

1) Jaws are dirty/oily/packed with debris. Solution: Clean jaws.
2) Shaft of the drill bit is oily. Solution: Clean shaft of drill bit with a solvent that removes oil.
3) The drill bit bites into the material. Solution: Let drill bit get to speed before carefully plunging into the material and use less force while plunging into the material. Lift the drill bit from time to time while drilling each hole to allow the shavings/debris come out.
4) Chuck is worn out/defective or not capable to chuck a 10mm shaft. Solution: Use different drill/driver or replace chuck.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2021, 03:03 PM »
Does your bit have a straight shaft?

Yes

Oh boy, new ones are 1/4" quick disconnect.

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2021, 03:07 PM »
All that said, you can buy the newer UJK 20mm Cutter with Split Stop Collar as spare part: https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-20mm-cutter-split-stop-collar-for-parf-guide-system/

It would be great if someone could confirm that this drill bit also works with the first version of the Parf Guide.


Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2021, 03:32 PM »
Does your bit have a straight shaft?

Yes

Oh boy, new ones are 1/4" quick disconnect.

I know! It's a nightmare having to keep chucking and unchucking the boring bit...hence that attempt at using the Makita chuck adapter. My festool CXS struggles to cut the holes, but using the quick disconnect chuck is nice.

I'm curious if there are any other adapters I could use to stop the constant re-chucking, but that won't destroy the bit in the process?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:35 PM by gearhound »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2021, 03:36 PM »
I'm curious if there are any other adapters I could use to stop the constant re-chucking, but that won't destroy the bit in the process?
Just file/grind 3 flat spots on the bit shank for the chuck to grab. Doesn't have to be deep, just identical and carefully placed.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2021, 04:50 PM »
I really do not understand what has gone wrong here - it seems it is an issue with the chuck which I have never used or seen before.

Try tapping it on the blunt end !

Peter

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 515
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 05:01 PM »
...
I'm also wondering what the best way will be to cut all these holes as I'm not going to be using the Makita chuck anymore and my Ridgid drill's chuck keeps ripping into the shaft of the bit? Really would like to get my hands on a Mk. 2 boring bit!

What size is the chuck on the Rigid drill?

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2021, 05:19 PM »
I really do not understand what has gone wrong here - it seems it is an issue with the chuck which I have never used or seen before.

Try tapping it on the blunt end !

Peter

Hi Peter,
I luckily got the bit freed from the chuck with an impact driver. I'm however still trying to come up with a solution for an efficient way to bore out the holes without the 1/4" hex universal fitting on my bit? I'm getting burrs on the shank constantly having to re-chuck for each and every hole I drill. I can see very small scratches inside the boring guide hole from removing a burred bit...I'm hoping it's way too minor to affect the accuracy? It seems the new-er boring bits with the hex fitting are sold out everywhere and I'd like to get this top finished this soon.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Cheers,
Matt

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2021, 05:23 PM »
...
I'm also wondering what the best way will be to cut all these holes as I'm not going to be using the Makita chuck anymore and my Ridgid drill's chuck keeps ripping into the shaft of the bit? Really would like to get my hands on a Mk. 2 boring bit!

What size is the chuck on the Rigid drill?

Half Inch

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 515
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2021, 05:42 PM »
...
Half Inch

I’m guessing it’s keyless. Is there a high/low speed selector? Where you could tighten the chuck in low and then change to high for drilling the hole?

Are you using a vacuum to collect chips? Might need air movement to keep the bit cooler and less likely to grab hard.

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2021, 07:27 PM »
...
Half Inch

I’m guessing it’s keyless. Is there a high/low speed selector? Where you could tighten the chuck in low and then change to high for drilling the hole?

Are you using a vacuum to collect chips? Might need air movement to keep the bit cooler and less likely to grab hard.

Yes. I've played around with the speeds of the drill, but it's a big/cumbersome dial so doing it each hole gets tedious. I've decided my best method of attacking this top is doing all the holes I can with the left guide and then clean/sand up the burrs on the bit and switch to the right guide. That updated bit with the 1/4" hex connection is such a huge upgrade...really wishing I had it right now!

Here's where I'm at now. I'm using a 5x5 sheet of baltic birch so I have to keep adjusting the sacrificial piece underneath to prevent crazy tear-out.


Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2021, 09:38 PM »
@gearhound - have you considered buying the newer UJK Parf Guide Drill - as six point socket2 suggested? - if you do, we have the Parf Dust Port in stock as a separate item, as well.

Why make life more difficult with plywood when MDF or Valchromat machine so much better?
I wonder why you are torturing yourself when clearly superior later version tools are available to you at a reasonable cost [wink]

Hans

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 684
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2021, 09:42 PM »
@gearhound - have you considered buying the newer UJK Parf Guide Drill - as six point socket2 suggested? - if you do, we have the Parf Dust Port in stock as a separate item, as well.

Why make life more difficult with plywood when MDF or Valchromat machine so much better?
I wonder why you are torturing yourself when clearly superior later version tools are available to you at a reasonable cost [wink]

Hans

Seems that new drill is on backorder at TSO and Axminster.

Offline TSO_Products

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 10:23 PM »
@gearhound  - if you're in a bind, we have a new spare 20mm Parf Boring Bit and new Parf Dust Port in our engineering office and you're welcome to buy both off-line with a phone call.
email your shipping address and phone number with mention of your FOG handle to

info@tsoproducts.com
attention: Hans

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2021, 01:32 AM »
I really do not understand what has gone wrong here - it seems it is an issue with the chuck which I have never used or seen before.

Try tapping it on the blunt end !

Peter

Hi Peter,
I luckily got the bit freed from the chuck with an impact driver. I'm however still trying to come up with a solution for an efficient way to bore out the holes without the 1/4" hex universal fitting on my bit? I'm getting burrs on the shank constantly having to re-chuck for each and every hole I drill. I can see very small scratches inside the boring guide hole from removing a burred bit...I'm hoping it's way too minor to affect the accuracy? It seems the new-er boring bits with the hex fitting are sold out everywhere and I'd like to get this top finished this soon.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt

When the original PGS was being developed we had a plain shaft on the 20 mm cutter. Many of the tests were conducted away from my workshop and I remember the drill did not have a quick release chuck. We managed but it was awkward hence my early videos showing the Festool quick release chuck.

Does anyone know if it is possible to buy a Centrotec bit holder that can be mounted in your chuck which would then alllow a quick release onto the 20 mm cutter.

Peter

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2021, 02:29 AM »
Yes he could Peter, but I honestly have no idea if the item is NAINA or not.

@gearhound

Get Festool 496450 if you can (and 492135 but it's already included with the CXS you have)



then you can do this with any drill



I posted about this a long time ago, here: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/festool-centrotec-compatibility-with-other-manufacturers-(cordless)-drills/msg496114/#msg496114

And as you can see here: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/home-improvement-other-projects/'quick-and-dirty'-basement-door-repair/msg620174/#msg620174 this really works with any drill.

Obviously, once you have the new drill bit, you can achieve the same with any quick release 1/4" bit holder chucked in your rigid drill.

Personally, having gone all Centrotec from the beginning, I wouldn't want to miss that handy drill chuck adapter.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2021, 06:40 AM »
Hi Oliver @six-point socket II

I knew there was a fix for this. Many thanks.

Peter

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2021, 07:23 AM »
Festool 496450 should be available in NA, I bought one about 2 years ago but I don't remember from where. Might have been on from ToolNut and as I check now as I write this they do have them listed as available.

https://www.toolnut.com/festool-496450-keyless-chuck-centrotec-adapter.html
-----
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Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2021, 12:09 PM »
@gearhound - have you considered buying the newer UJK Parf Guide Drill - as six point socket2 suggested? - if you do, we have the Parf Dust Port in stock as a separate item, as well.

Why make life more difficult with plywood when MDF or Valchromat machine so much better?
I wonder why you are torturing yourself when clearly superior later version tools are available to you at a reasonable cost [wink]

Hans

Hi Hans,
I'd love to be using the Mk. 2 system for sure, but I purchased this original system already and have a hard time justifying spending more to upgrade. I wish there was an option for early adopters to more affordably upgrade to the newer model! When are you expecting it to be back in stock on the TSO site?

I'd like to be using Valchromat for this top as I'm basing the design on Hooked on Wood's build, but I've never seen it available anywhere in Colorado? I decided to use nice baltic birch ply as I've watched a lot of Ron Paulk's videos using the Parf guide in ply and wanted something more durable than the cheap big-box MDF available to me locally.

()




@six-point socket II thanks for all the help, Oliver! That adapter piece is exactly what I'm looking for!

Cheers,
Matt




 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 12:13 PM by gearhound »

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2021, 12:21 PM »
Please remember Matt, that adapter will only work with the 20mm cutter/drill bit of the MKII variant. It's of no help with your current drill bit.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 126
Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2021, 12:26 PM »
Please remember Matt, that adapter will only work with the 20mm cutter/drill bit of the MKII variant. It's of no help with your current drill bit.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Man, just realized that after looking it up! I'm going to continue suffering through this top...I've got about 60% of the holes drilled now.

Offline RustE

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Re: Help...pretty sure I just destroyed my Parf Guide Bit!
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2021, 04:46 PM »
...
Here's where I'm at now. I'm using a 5x5 sheet of baltic birch so I have to keep adjusting the sacrificial piece underneath to prevent crazy tear-out.
...

Hmm. Your set-up looks good. Only other ideas I have are to replace the drill chuck with one that holds better and/or to more frequently dress the bit with a diamond hone.