Author Topic: Drilling MFT Holes  (Read 15329 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rustynuts

  • Posts: 23
Drilling MFT Holes
« on: February 02, 2014, 06:32 AM »
Hi,
Apart from CNC which I have found to be disappointing is there a sure fire way to do the holes in a purpose built MFT table, I have had one made from 1" MDF and find it unsatisfactory in use so am going to make one myself, the one I have had made is 4'x6' and I find it a good size.
Thanks in advance and apologies if the subject has already been covered.
I find this forum is one of the best ones around for woodworkers and the info gained here is priceless.
Regards
Rustynuts.
Regards
Rustynuts

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 06:46 AM »
Hi,
Apart from CNC which I have found to be disappointing is there a sure fire way to do the holes in a purpose built MFT table, I have had one made from 1" MDF and find it unsatisfactory in use so am going to make one myself, the one I have had made is 4'x6' and I find it a good size.
Thanks in advance and apologies if the subject has already been covered.
I find this forum is one of the best ones around for woodworkers and the info gained here is priceless.
Regards
Rustynuts.

I'm curious as to why you found a CNC cut top 'disappointing'? That is without a doubt the best way you're ever going to make one (assuming the guy drawing it up/programming the machine is competent, and gets the hole size & spacing correct!).
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Rustynuts

  • Posts: 23
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 06:49 AM »
Holes were not the right size, was turning into a long drawn out saga as to why,how,what,when to get it altered so I am thinking is there another way.
Regards
Rustynuts

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 07:17 AM »
Holes were not the right size, was turning into a long drawn out saga as to why,how,what,when to get it altered so I am thinking is there another way.

If the holes are the wrong size then that's a problem with the execution, not the method! A CNC will give you more accurate holes than any other way of doing it.

FWIW, I bought an MFT1080 top & used that as a template to make an oversized top. There's a thread on it here.

You can also do it with the LR32 set-up & a router, if you have that? There are a couple of threads on that somewhere too.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline RonWen

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
    • Ordering
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 08:34 AM »
Hi,
Apart from CNC which I have found to be disappointing is there a sure fire way to do the holes in a purpose built MFT table, I have had one made from 1" MDF and find it unsatisfactory in use so am going to make one myself, the one I have had made is 4'x6' and I find it a good size.
Thanks in advance and apologies if the subject has already been covered.
I find this forum is one of the best ones around for woodworkers and the info gained here is priceless.
Regards
Rustynuts.

I'm curious as to why you found a CNC cut top 'disappointing'? That is without a doubt the best way you're ever going to make one (assuming the guy drawing it up/programming the machine is competent, and gets the hole size & spacing correct!).

The machine operator (which may not be the programmer) has total control and responsibility for the final hole size through the machine's cutter compensation.   [smile]

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 08:38 AM »
The machine operator (which may not be the programmer) has total control and responsibility for the final hole size through the machine's cutter compensation.   [smile]

Very true, but if the programmer calls for 20.00mm holes, when they should be 19.90mm, then they're still going to be wrong!

I tend to assume that the guy programming it & the guy running it are one & the same, since that's what I did on the CNC I ran. [embarassed]
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline RonWen

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
    • Ordering
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 10:03 AM »
The point is that if ordering a top from a CNC shop, specify the precise hole size required depending on the dogs being used & that is what you should receive.

Keep in mind a good shop won't simply drill the holes & depend on the drill size to get the correct hole dimension -- they will drill an under size hole and then go back into the hole with a milling type cutter and with circular interpolation finish the hole to the exact size specified.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 05:35 PM by RonWen »

Offline GreenGA

  • Posts: 878
  • JR
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 11:43 AM »
If you are going to go ahead and do it yourself, Peter Parfitt did this as part of a work bench video. and I believe there is a section/excerpt to the making of his own MFT section.

Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 12:03 PM »
I have a few customers locally that made oversize tops using the LR 32 system and the Festool 20mm boring router bit. Two of them borrowed my LR 32 set and the others now own a set. It works well.

The 96mm spacing is easy - just use every 3rd index. There are different ways to do the layout.


Tom

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 12:44 PM »
Any reason why the Festool router cutter has to be used? This one from Wealden (T1120M) is less than half the price. Any reason to choose the Festool one over the Wealden?

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_8mm_shank_238.html
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 12:56 PM »
The Festool bit is a boring bit. The one I see at your link is a straight bit.


Tom

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 02:43 PM »
Tom, Thanks. I think the Wealden one is suitable for boring as it has cutters on the underside as well as sides.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 03:06 PM »
You're right, Cliff. A straight bit can be used for boring but it isn't optimized for the task. They normally just have a straight cutter on the face and straight cutters on the sides. They are really designed for moving laterally.

A boring bit is designed for plunging into the work. The first thing that touched the work is a centering cutter. In the case of the 20mm Festool bit, it is a point in the middle of the bit. The next part of the bit to touch the work is cutters that protrude along the perimeter and score the circumference of the hole it's making. Finally, the material removal part, which is equivalent to the straight cutter on the face of a straight bit, sees the work. It is also optimized to make a neat hole.

100373-0


'Sorry about the quality of the image but I hope it shows what I mean.


Tom

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1862
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 03:38 PM »
I have the 20mm Festool boring bit, but I also have the 13mm equivalent of the 20mm Wealden bit that Cliff mentions.

The Festool bit is definitely "optimised" for boring holes. As Tom mentioned, it has several characteristics that make it perfect for that job. It's certainly the tool I'd use for drilling 20mm holes รก la MFT/3.

100376-0

However, the Wealden bit is also optimised for plunge cutting. As the linked page notes, "sizes above 9mm diameter have an additional centre carbide tip to ensure a faster and cleaner cut when plunging". I've taken a couple of photos that hopefully show the cutter in a better light than the outline drawing on the web page. Hope this helps.

100378-1

100380-2

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 362
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 03:53 PM »
I think you might want to use a slightly thinner MDF. 20mm holes in a 1" MDF will probably make it hard to get the Festool clamps trough the holes. I suppose you could bevel the edge on the underside of the holes if you really want to use 1".

Here is how I made the holes.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/make-a-perfect-'mft'-with-qwas-raildogs/msg238735/#msg238735

//Michael

Offline Julian Tracy

  • Posts: 529
    • Renovation By Design, Inc.
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 04:30 PM »
Why bother with expensive special bits?  If you already have a mft top - simply trace the holes with pencil and free hand plunge rough cut them with a 1/2" mortising bit in a plunge router, then clamp the two boards togther and use a 1/2" pattern bit on the same plunge router.  Perfect holes, perfect spacing, no worrying about bits/sizes/dulling, etc.

JT

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 04:57 PM »
Tom, thanks for such a detailed reply - reading yours and Garry's recommendations for the Festool bits I am leaning towards the Festool one. I actually recently bought the Wealden 25mm cutter which I used for cutting a hole and the results (visually) were superb (it was for a Hafele drawer front adjuster) but I suspect this was not as stringent a test as a hole in an MFT.

Julian's idea is an interesting one - I always thought that pattern bits don't quite cut to the level of the bearing and so I would have thought that the holes would be slightly smaller in diameter - is this not the case? A slight problem with this approach is that I think my MFT top is slightly warped through water ingress (spilled water due to clumsy sharpening)
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1894
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 06:40 PM »
The Wealdon bit shown will certainly plunge but the set up needs to be really secure. If you look at the periphery you can see that it has a lot of clearance for side cutting. A true plunge drilling tool is circular ground which allows it to make its own guide bushing as it drills and also has no clearance to allow it to cut sideways. That said, plunge mills can make very nice bores, at accurate sizes, if the set up allows for no lateral movement and the spindle is stout and true. Plunge mills usually will not clear chips as well, as they are usually used in situations where they plunge and move sideways at the same time or in relatively small alternating increments. If the plunge mill becomes your choice you should retract it more often to clear chips
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2014, 03:12 AM »
Greg, thanks - thats very helpful!
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Eden1415

  • Posts: 32
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2014, 05:07 PM »
Here is a thought.  The problem is how to get consistent holes in an x y & z axis.   

Standard hole pin jigs usually have a 32mm spacing.  You can use every third hole in the jig to get the 96mm spacing between holes.  By using either a router or a Drill you can modify the template for 20mm hole drilling.   Using a rail,  you can then do x, y and z.  For a drill,  you can use one of those vertical Drill support jigs. 


Offline leer

  • Posts: 262
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2014, 05:42 PM »
I made my own "super-sized" MFT-style top on a CNC router.  Anyone making a top should either measure existing holes, or if you do not own an MFT (as was my case), I measured my Qwas Dogs, and programmed from there.  I used a 1/2" spiral upcut router bit.  I did a couple of test holes, found the perfect fit, and then milled the sheet based on those settings.  It takes a few test holes, too, especially if your bit is ever so slightly undersized or oversized.  You definitely want to get them as close as possible, and a little upfront fine tuning can make a big difference.

When I set my Qwas Dogs (and now Parf Dogs, too) into the holes, they gently sink in.  Not too loose, not to tight.  Any CNC shop should do the same, and if not, I'd find another shop.  
Lee

Offline PMF

  • Posts: 1
Re: Drilling MFT Holes
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 09:23 PM »
After agonizing over the best (and also a reasonably cost-effective) solution for sizing holes for my new "MFT style" (3/4" thick MDF) workbench top- I finally made a choice, and it worked out brilliantly. I must confess upfront, that I did not build a "traditional" MFT on 96mm spacing. What I wanted was a solution that gave me perfectly sized holes, to exactly fit my new systainer full of dogs, clamps, and stops. The solution: I required 20mm holes (actually 19.81 mm) I drilled a series of holes using a 3/4" Forstner bit. I then used an adjustable 3/4 +- reamer, drilled a couple of 3/4" test holes, dialed in the reamer, and using my handheld drill (set on a slow speed) reamed the 3/4" holes out to perfectly fit the MFT Multi-Function Table Fastening Set inserts I purchased in advance of my build.