Author Topic: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system  (Read 2692 times)

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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« on: January 04, 2021, 02:59 PM »
I have mostly built face frame cabinets.   However, this time I am using 16" wide uprights with the 32mm system holes already drilled.

So once the cabinet is built I can select two holes near the top and two holes near the bottom for the mounting plates.

The assembled box will look like this with the hinge plate in place:



The best way I have found is illustrated by this image. Though they show the centerline, they don't show how to derive the centerline.

 Are there any better systems?  Blum makes a transfer gage but it costs about $120.00 and seems pricy for mounting four hinges.



I also have this Blum template for locating the mounting plate after drilling for the hinge, but I will be reversing that sequence here.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 03:33 PM by Packard »

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1606
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 03:33 PM »
Hettich makes two very useful templates. Both can be had for single digit Euro/Dollar amounts.

Hettich Multiblue (0000351) (right) <- You probably want this one. ;)
Hettich Blue Jig (0045150) (left)




-> https://web.hettich.com/en-us/realization-installation/drilling-jigs.jsp

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 04:36 PM »
Exactly what I need.  The video is perfectly clear.  Now I just have to find a source for one.




Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 141
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 05:55 PM »
this isnt 32 system at all? you can have these holes anywhere.

i thought you would have correct size cabinet door if you are with the 32mm system and they would just match your cabinet holes which you already have

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1606
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 09:40 PM »
Amazon COM (US) and CA both had them in the past, right now I can't find them on either of the sites.

In Germany it's (obviously) still listed: https://www.amazon.de/Hettich-9220193-Anreißschablone-Ankörnschablone-35mm-Kunststoff/dp/B07JHCV2R8

Maybe this helps with sourcing it.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 172
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 02:17 AM »
Yeah, that Hettich jig is hot stuff. So hot it will cost you € 75 to have them send you this € 6 item. Yikes!  [eek]

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 08:16 AM »
Amazon.ca (Canada) still lists it. You get two.  They appear to be knockoffs and they ship directly from China. 

I'm going to make my own.  I only need to find the centerline for the two holes that the mounting plate screws into.  Once I have the centerline, I can transfer it to the door easily enough.

The Blum fixture at $104.00 + tax + shipping from A.H. Turf seems like a better deal than the plastic Hettich pieces at 80 Euros (about $98.00 U.S.).

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 458
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 08:27 AM »
You say $100+ jig for mounting four hinges seems extravagant;conversely isn’t any jig that requires this much effort to acquire or make , a waste of time for 4 hinges ?

Hettich’s USA HQ is in Atlanta.  Why don’t you give them a call and ask where you can get one.

The mounting plate in the picture is too far away from the bottom edge for my liking.

Part of the beauty of a 32mm system is that all these positions are known ahead of time, and a jig should be a benefit onLy in the field during a retrofit.

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 257
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 08:33 AM »
Here's a U.S. source for the right-hand jig in Oliver's picture, 4.95 USD;
https://www.ovisonline.com/Hinge-Drilling-Jig-P1620.aspx


I know nothing about the supplier, just found it with a google search for Hettich

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1606
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 12:01 PM »
Yay, that is the correct price point for this template. :) Thank you for finding that!

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 2023
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 01:24 PM »
I have mostly built face frame cabinets.   However, this time I am using 16" wide uprights with the 32mm system holes already drilled.

So once the cabinet is built I can select two holes near the top and two holes near the bottom for the mounting plates.

The assembled box will look like this with the hinge plate in place:



The best way I have found is illustrated by this image. Though they show the centerline, they don't show how to derive the centerline.

 Are there any better systems?  Blum makes a transfer gage but it costs about $120.00 and seems pricy for mounting four hinges.



I also have this Blum template for locating the mounting plate after drilling for the hinge, but I will be reversing that sequence here.

I found this on Rocklers website. Ticklers Website
RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit, Parallel Guides & Ext, Carvex, OF1400, LR32 Set, MFS400 w/700 rails, KA UG Set, First Aid Kit, RTS 400 EQ, Vecturo OS400 Set, CT Wings, CT Drill Guide, Pro 5, CXS, C18, HL850, Vac Sys set

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2021, 06:24 PM »
Part of the beauty of a 32mm system is that all these positions are known ahead of time, and a jig should be a benefit onLy in the field during a retrofit.
The hettich jig (and the numerous copies available) is really designed for kitchen fitters who will have pre-made cabinets (these will always be system32, at least on this side of the pond) and undrilled doors.

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 136
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2021, 07:45 PM »
I have a pair of Anthony's Hinge Jig from Fast Cap that i use ...

https://www.fastcap.com/product/hinge-jig?cat=28





Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1583
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2021, 08:37 PM »
Thanks for the Anthony's hinge jig advice!


Offline xedos

  • Posts: 458
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 08:55 PM »
Part of the beauty of a 32mm system is that all these positions are known ahead of time, and a jig should be a benefit onLy in the field during a retrofit.
The hettich jig (and the numerous copies available) is really designed for kitchen fitters who will have pre-made cabinets (these will always be system32, at least on this side of the pond) and undrilled doors.

Huh ? 😳

That’s just daft if you’re having to bore 35mm holes on every door for a kitchen on site.  I can see a one off , replacement , or re fit from a third party that you spec’d and ordered yourself .  But a factory made cabinet shipping doors loose for a fitter to bore on site is beyond stupid and inefficient too boot.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 10:11 PM by xedos »

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2021, 03:53 AM »
The whole point of using a standardised system is that you don’t have to get your cabinets, drawer boxes and fronts from the same manufacturer.

But more fundamentally, the fronts are supplied in standard size increments and can be used for both door and drawer fronts - and you don’t want to find there’s a 35mm hole for a door hinge right where you want to mount the drawer box clip.

You may also want to position your hinges in specific locations to avoid fouling internal drawers or pullouts or other hardware. Having the door manufacturer pre-drill the hinge holes is a huge inconvenience for someone fitting a very customised kitchen.

Tbh, when using a drilling jig like the Blum Ecodrill there is no real inconvenience in drilling your own hinge holes.

<edit> One very important point I forgot is that for doors with integrated pulls (as in, the pull is molded/routed into the door itself) you would have to decide in advance what side you wanted it to swing if you were getting them pre-drilled (or suffer the awful 'holes both sides' ugliness I've seen on some particularly cheap kitchens) with no neat option for changing your mind (or your customer changing their mind) after you've ordered them. Yes, you can just tell the customer they're paying the extra (because your supplier may not refund on a pre-drilled panel) but wouldn't it be easier to have the flexibility on site to work round issues that crop up?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 05:06 AM by Spandex »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2021, 09:41 AM »
I have the Ecodrill jig (a nice piece of engineering).  But the problem is if I locate the hinge in the wrong spot the mounting plate holes might overlap the existing 32mm spaced holes and be impossible to drill or use.

My whole point is to use the existing 32mm holes for the mounting plate and then transfer the centerline so I can use the ecodrill jig to mount the hinge in the corresponding location.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2021, 10:24 AM »
I have the Ecodrill jig (a nice piece of engineering).  But the problem is if I locate the hinge in the wrong spot the mounting plate holes might overlap the existing 32mm spaced holes and be impossible to drill or use.

My whole point is to use the existing 32mm holes for the mounting plate and then transfer the centerline so I can use the ecodrill jig to mount the hinge in the corresponding location.
Yes, that is exactly the point of the cheap plastic Hettich jig - it allows you to transfer an accurate drill position/centre line from two existing 32mm cabinet holes over to the door. Then you'd use your Ecodrill to bore the three holes.

The reason the Hettich jig is cheap is because it's more of a DIY tool - it's designed to space the door the correct distance from the carcass to mark the exact drilling location for a hand drilled 35mm hole. But even for someone who has an Ecodrill (and therefore only needs a centre line, not a drill position) it will do the job.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 10:38 AM by Spandex »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2021, 11:50 AM »
]
Yes, that is exactly the point of the cheap plastic Hettich jig - it allows you to transfer an accurate drill position/centre line from two existing 32mm cabinet holes over to the door. Then you'd use your Ecodrill to bore the three holes.


Exactly.  A cheap product, but because it is not imported to the USA it will cost me $98.00 to obtain it.  The return on investment seems poor.  At $104.00 + tax and shipping the Blum is a better deal, but still a poor investment for me.



Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2021, 02:29 PM »
Thanks for that link.  From there I found this one and it is arriving on Sunday.


Offline xedos

  • Posts: 458
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2021, 11:06 PM »
Packard, why do you even need a jig for four hinges ?

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2021, 05:21 AM »
this isnt 32 system at all? you can have these holes anywhere.
I missed this post, but it’s worth commenting on.

The jig itself conforms to system32, as the locating pins are designed for 32mm spaced holes. Of course, you can drill those holes anywhere if you have an undrilled cabinet and doors, but the same applies to any system32 compatible jig, template or hardware.

The video shows someone using the jig to place hinges where they want them, which is a perfectly sensible use case, if sticking to 32mm multiple spacing gains them nothing. They can still use system32 hardware, as they have observed the important dimensions - 32mm hole spacing for each hinge plate, 37mm from the front edge.

I’m a big fan of system32, but only as far as it benefits whatever I’m building. People shouldn’t be afraid to only use the bits they actually need. Otherwise you end up with the ridiculousness seen in the OPs second photo.

Offline Hugh

  • Posts: 15
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2021, 07:25 AM »
The LR32 system set can figure the hinge holes for you. 

Fit the end stops that are 16mm different to the ones you used for the cabinet holes.
This lines any new holes up central to the cabinet holes.

You could use the point on the router cutter to mark the center point where your hinge is going.  OR fit the 40mm router cutter set the guides to the right offset for the hinge inset and cut the hinge holes.  You might have to add a few shims if your making your doors a few mm undersized as is common.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2021, 09:17 AM »
The LR32 system set can figure the hinge holes for you. 

Fit the end stops that are 16mm different to the ones you used for the cabinet holes.
This lines any new holes up central to the cabinet holes.

You could use the point on the router cutter to mark the center point where your hinge is going.  OR fit the 40mm router cutter set the guides to the right offset for the hinge inset and cut the hinge holes.  You might have to add a few shims if your making your doors a few mm undersized as is common.

I agree that the strategy for the build in the second photo escapes me.  I would have pre-drilled the shelf holes starting about 6" from the bottom and 6" from the top and then placed the hinge plates where I wanted them. 

However in the first photo, (which is similar to what I am using) the holes are pre-drilled along the entire length of the board.  So I really have to use two of the existing holes and then locate the hinge cup accordingly. 

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 808
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2021, 09:22 AM »
If your doors/drawers are a multiple of 32 minus desired gap between doors, you’ll need to account for this in your offset if using the LR32.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2021, 10:07 AM »
Something I've noticed looking at the Hettich jig and the copies... On the Hettich one, the locating pins are designed for 5mm holes (I have one myself so I can confirm that). On the photos of the copies, the pins appear to be thinner - this may be because in the US it's less common to use 5mm system screws.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2021, 10:42 AM »
I noticed the thinner pins.  I was hoping it was an illusion.  If not, it may not prove useful. No doubt that the color choice was to make people think it was a Kreg produced item (it seems not to be).  The Hettich blue is a much darker color.

The description says it is molded from ABS, a engineering grade of resin that should stand up.  I will get this on Sunday and I will report.


Offline Packard

  • Posts: 176
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2021, 09:10 AM »
The template I ordered was useless.  The pins were so small that it allowed about 1/4" of lateral  movement, which means that the slack exceeded the working tolerance of the hinges.

I ordered the Hettich from Amazon.de, but they canceled the order.  There seems to be some delivery issue from Germany to NY.

I just ordered the Hettich fixture from Ovis, which surprisingly has a larger shipping cost ($4.95) from Virginia than Amazon had from Germany. 

However, this time I would expect that the delivery will actually occur.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 443
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: determining the position of cabinet hinges on 32mm system
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2021, 10:22 AM »
You don't need a jig for 4 doors. You calculate the height from the bottom of the cabinet and if you want overlay you add that dimension or subtract if you want clearance. Because the holes are 32mm centre you just add to that dimension by the number of holes between x 32mm for the top hole.

The dimension in from the edge is dependent on the hinge you use, so you must check the specs on the hinge.

If you have a drill press you can set a fence for the inset from door edge dimension and stop for depth of cut.

I always drill a couple of holes on a scrap and try that before drilling the door. To make all this work efficiently you would want to insure when you cut your gables they all have the same dimension from bottom of gable to centre of of first hole.

If you are doing a lot of this setting up a fence with flag stops speeds the process.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
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