Author Topic: new multi battery charger inverter power supply  (Read 34609 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1678
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2022, 11:06 PM »


Is this peak energy conversion yet?

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1035
Re: New multi battery charger inverter power supply from Milwaukee
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2022, 08:38 AM »
will definitely be buying this over festool.  1/4 of the price and it does the same thing

For the record:

SYS-POWERSTATION is 3600W sustained, 11.000W peak /i.e. it can handle ANY 16A 230V tool, including those without soft-start/
It includes 1.5kWh of batteries /i.e. the equivalent of 10 8Ah 18V Festool packs/.


The Millwaukee is 1800W sustained, 3500W peak /i.e. it can barely handle an 8A 230V tool and the tool better be a soft-start, so it cannot power a vac which then powers an OF2200 from its socket, etc./
It also does not include any batteries so the "1/4 cost" is actually along the 1/2 cost ballpark once batteries are included.


Once batteries are added to the Millwaukee cost, the SYS-PS is about 3x the power with 2x the capacity at 2x the cost of the Milwaukue. That is a very reasonable deal.


That said, the Millwaukee solution looks great and is an obvious choice for when it is sufficient as these two products are playing in completely different leagues.
Is like a 3ton vs a 10 ton truck.


Addl. note:
In US, with the low 110V voltage, the SYS-POWERSTATION can be seen as "overkill" as the wiring standards simply cannot fully utilize it. However in Europe, at 230V, it can flex its wings and is unique. To my knowledge it is the -only- easily portable power bank which can provide full 16A @ 230V with no restrictions on tool compatibility. That is its main value point which is a bit would be toned down in the 110V markets.

Maybe FestoolUSA should consider importing the 230V version to US and couple it with a small transformer from 110V for charging. It would be an easy path for folks who would want/need to use 230V tools in the US.


EDIT:
Just noticed the SYS-PS is not available in an 110V version. Based on above, I would expect it never will be either.
Besides that, it is practically un-shippable internationally. A 1.5kWh LiIon battery is well in the "dangerous goods" category ... so one can forget about "normal" shipping or taking it on a plane from a holiday. Unless the unthinkable happens and FUSA decides to bring in the 230V version as a specialist product, IMO this will be a hard NAINA.

A 110V version would still face the same electrical current limits. About 20A@110V sustained with the same 50A peak (so only 6000W) would the max. The electronic converters inside are current-limited, not voltage-limited. So at same complexity/cost, you can get 16A@110 or 16@230V. Anything more than 20A@110 would likely require a different chassis for more control board space, more cooling etc. A hard no-go.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 09:13 AM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3698
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2022, 08:45 AM »
Good analysis, Mino. This shows why we need to careful about apple to orange comparisons based on price alone.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 541
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2022, 01:26 PM »
In a quick look at the photo of the Milwaukee battery pack, I thought the unit was floating off the floor. I was impressed by that.

Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 104
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2022, 10:47 AM »
HA! Just noticed that too now you mention it. That Water/grease spot = shadow

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1678
Re: New multi battery charger inverter power supply from Milwaukee
« Reply #125 on: August 03, 2022, 04:23 PM »
A 110V version would still face the same electrical current limits. About 20A@110V sustained with the same 50A peak (so only 6000W) would the max. The electronic converters inside are current-limited, not voltage-limited. So at same complexity/cost, you can get 16A@110 or 16@230V. Anything more than 20A@110 would likely require a different chassis for more control board space, more cooling etc. A hard no-go.

The voltage ratio is way bigger with 230V, so per fixed cost of circuitry, it's not 16A 110V vs 16A 230V but probably more something like 25A 110V vs 16A 230V.

But I really don't know how they wired the battery. Maybe it's 100 cells in series (370V), requiring only a slight buck circuit after making it AC.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1035
Re: New multi battery charger inverter power supply from Milwaukee
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2022, 06:46 PM »
The voltage ratio is way bigger with 230V, so per fixed cost of circuitry, it's not 16A 110V vs 16A 230V but probably more something like 25A 110V vs 16A 230V.

But I really don't know how they wired the battery. Maybe it's 100 cells in series (370V), requiring only a slight buck circuit after making it AC.
Pretty sure it is not series, that would have huge issues with cell balancing.

These are reported as 105 cells, so 15 packs of 7 parallel cells each sound about right. Or thereabouts.

And you are right, it is not 16/16 but a bit better, though 25A is on the too-optimist side at the same power loss/space footprint. All things considered, 20A being the "big" plug standard in the US, I cannot see anything more than that. Should Festool go for it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 06:50 PM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.