Author Topic: new multi battery charger inverter power supply  (Read 14647 times)

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Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2020, 12:51 PM »
Or they make this a 110-240V, 50-60Hz input device and afterwards drop any and all other 110V stuff, since you now can obtain a working converter (with benefits) for your obsolete kind of mains power (which is, when seen from the perspective of worldwide prevalence these days, irrelevant).

I still think this SYS-PowerStation may be an easy way to integrate some of the 230 volt Festool & Mafell tools into the work shop without rewiring the shop or running 75 foot extension cords through the house. I'm thinking BS 75 or BS 105.

Yeah, I think they could sell these in the US as is.   The input looks to be standard computer stuff, so that is almost certainly 100-250VAC 50/60Hz input like computer supplies, so that is good to go.  On the output, it comes down to how the designed it and did they plan ahead.  A smart engineer would have spec a transformer with a center tap.  So in EU they connect it as 230V only.  And then for North America, Japan, UK job site, they use the center tap and bring out 220 and 110V power.  Or they just design both transformers from the start and have it easy to swap out at the factory. 

But yeah, bring it as is, not a big deal.  Folks will be ready with the Schuko to NEMA 6-15/6-20 adapters and be able to plug in their 230-240V tools.   I still maintain that Festool should be bringing over 230V stuff anyways.  They could sell a bunch of CTs to folks who want them for their 240V tools as there is very little options for such vacs in the US.   

The price is a hard thing to swallow.  But if you are in cases like Alex mentioned, or building a cabin in the woods, etc.  This makes a lot of sense.

If they made it a 240/110 device, it would be great for bringing power to a cabin on the weekend. 

This stuff will get cheaper, and more companies will jump in.   The systainer aspect of it is a big plus for sure.  Maybe the can make a much smaller one to strap to sys-vac.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2020, 01:01 PM »
The main issue for the US will be how long it takes them to make a 110v version
Or they make this a 110-240V, 50-60Hz input device and afterwards drop any and all other 110V stuff, since you now can obtain a working converter (with benefits) for your obsolete kind of mains power (which is, when seen from the perspective of worldwide prevalence these days, irrelevant).

They could just solve all and make them all with a NEMA 14-20 receptacle.  Make it a global choose your own adventure as it does both 110 and 220 (up to 250VAC really).  Folks just use the right adapter for their part of the world. Sell nice green adapters for what ever country/need people want.

Add: Before anyone ask, 50/60Hz is basically a non issue to devices, but if it was, they could just have a 50/60Hz switch on it as that is just part of the controller switching built into it as is.   Similar for the voltage, they all handle ranges,  100-120VAC,  200-250VAC.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 01:13 PM by DeformedTree »

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2020, 03:50 PM »
The main issue for the US will be how long it takes them to make a 110v version
Or they make this a 110-240V, 50-60Hz input device and afterwards drop any and all other 110V stuff, since you now can obtain a working converter (with benefits) for your obsolete kind of mains power (which is, when seen from the perspective of worldwide prevalence these days, irrelevant).
I meant to type ‘120v’. 110v would be used here in the UK for certain building sites, although I’m not sure if that requirement would apply to tools plugged into a generator/power bank, so there may be no demand for a 110v version in the UK.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2020, 04:31 PM »
The main issue for the US will be how long it takes them to make a 110v version
Or they make this a 110-240V, 50-60Hz input device and afterwards drop any and all other 110V stuff, since you now can obtain a working converter (with benefits) for your obsolete kind of mains power (which is, when seen from the perspective of worldwide prevalence these days, irrelevant).
I meant to type ‘120v’. 110v would be used here in the UK for certain building sites, although I’m not sure if that requirement would apply to tools plugged into a generator/power bank, so there may be no demand for a 110v version in the UK.

Sounds like a headache for the code folks there to sort out,  it's both cordless and corded at same time.  Either way, I would think the contractors would want a 110V version as they have tools for 110V jobsites as is.  They are not going to toss their 110V tools just because this comes out.  But this would be a perfect reason for them to do as I show, make it so it does both, and they use the correct adapter. 

Offline ben_r_

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2020, 04:56 PM »
For those that dont know, in the US there is also the well known Jackery brand that makes a 1002Wh capacity, 1000W rated power (2000W surge power) unit: LINK
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2020, 04:00 AM »
They could just solve all and make them all with a NEMA 14-20 receptacle.  Make it a global choose your own adventure as it does both 110 and 220 (up to 250VAC really).  Folks just use the right adapter for their part of the world. Sell nice green adapters for what ever country/need people want.

Add: Before anyone ask, 50/60Hz is basically a non issue to devices, but if it was, they could just have a 50/60Hz switch on it as that is just part of the controller switching built into it as is.   Similar for the voltage, they all handle ranges,  100-120VAC,  200-250VAC.
The main issue I have with that is that it’s a solution that can only benefit the manufacturer, at the inconvenience of the customers.

I can’t see many people wanting to use an (easily lost) adaptor, just so that Festool can have the convenience of only having one global SKU.

Offline Alex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2020, 05:09 AM »
They could just solve all and make them all with a NEMA 14-20 receptacle.  Make it a global choose your own adventure as it does both 110 and 220 (up to 250VAC really).  Folks just use the right adapter for their part of the world. Sell nice green adapters for what ever country/need people want.

Add: Before anyone ask, 50/60Hz is basically a non issue to devices, but if it was, they could just have a 50/60Hz switch on it as that is just part of the controller switching built into it as is.   Similar for the voltage, they all handle ranges,  100-120VAC,  200-250VAC.
The main issue I have with that is that it’s a solution that can only benefit the manufacturer, at the inconvenience of the customers.

I can’t see many people wanting to use an (easily lost) adaptor, just so that Festool can have the convenience of only having one global SKU.

Not gonna happen anyway, Festool's not going to inconvenience themselves and 95% of the world just to please the 5%.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2020, 07:01 AM »
Not gonna happen anyway, Festool's not going to inconvenience themselves and 95% of the world just to please the 5%.
No, I don’t think any company would actually do this. But I also don’t think it would even please 5% of their customers either. People want a power bank with plugs for their region. Having a plug that can be used around the world is pointless for any end user, because their tools are only going to be from their own region.

I’m not even sure it’s particularly good for Festool either, because it means they’re having to engineer a multi voltage solution into every power bank they sell, which means charging the customer for that additional functionality even though the customer won’t benefit from it. Reduced sales for Festool, lost adaptors for their customers and no one gains anything.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2020, 09:51 AM »
So it's not 5% of the world, as has been brought up in other threads, 110V power is in a lot more places than just the US.  It is a substantial part of the industrialized (power hungry users) world. It is not going away anytime soon/ever.

Even without the 110V power situation, they still have to make different plugs for around the world which is added cost/effort.

A global plug to rule them all isn't going to happen, even if it did you would have decades of adapters.   My comment on the NEMA plug was it could be a solution, as it is the closest thing there is to an answer (some other parts of the world may have similar dual voltage plugs too).  No one likes adapters. But no one likes not being able to buy something either.  I have adapters for my tools from Europe, some of them I could cut the cords and replace the ends, but I don't want to do that, I'll take the adapter instead. But also I can't easily swap the receptacle on the CT, so there is little point.

Further people move, folks don't want to have to re-buy tools if they move, and scrap stuff.  So having something locked into one country isn't exactly desirable.  This is where computers are nice, move anyplace in the world, you just have to find the right cord as the Power Supplies are 100-250VAC 50/60Hz with a common plug on that end.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2020, 12:16 PM »
Precisely. There are plenty of countries around the world not using 230v. Which means it’s worth it for manufacturers to eventually make versions of their tools that are compatible.

But, you might just have to wait a while, in the same way that Europeans sometimes have to wait for US products to make it over here. The solution isn’t more expensive, multi-voltage tools with universal sockets and adaptors. The solution, I’m afraid, is patience.

Offline Svar

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2020, 01:59 PM »
Not gonna happen anyway, Festool's not going to inconvenience themselves and 95% of the world just to please the 5%.
Not quite. 110/120v countries account for 40% of global GDP  (N. America + Most of S. Am. + Japan + Taiwan + ...). If you look at potential market share for upscale power tools, probably more than 40%.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2020, 02:03 PM »
It’s not about how many people use that voltage, it’s about how many people use that voltage AND want a high power battery bank to power tools.

Offline Alex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2020, 02:05 PM »
Not gonna happen anyway, Festool's not going to inconvenience themselves and 95% of the world just to please the 5%.
Not quite. 110/120v countries account for 40% of global GDP  (N. America + Most of S. Am. + Japan + Taiwan + ...). If you look at potential market share for upscale power tools, probably more than 40%.

And if Festool wants you to get the Powerstation, you're gonna get it in 110v, not some 220/110v hybrid as was suggested in the post I reacted to

It’s not about how many people use that voltage, it’s about how many people use that voltage AND want a high power battery bank to power tools.

I think generator use in America is pretty big considering all their rural areas, so the Powerstation might be of some use to them.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2020, 03:21 PM »
I think generator use in America is pretty big considering all their rural areas, so the Powerstation might be of some use to them.
This isn’t really a good replacement for a generator.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #74 on: December 24, 2020, 03:31 PM »
rural US is a big market, that is why looking up "powerstation" you see a lot of such products out there. Many offer the 220/110 Voltage setup exactly so they can power buildings with them, some I saw even use standard generator plugs (nice).

Lot of folks here have cabins, or just weekend getaways and will want to use such things.  Being limited to 1 voltage would be very frustrating as it really cuts down on how someone could use it.

This is where if it comes to N.America, having it be a dual voltage plug like I mentioned would be very useful, if it is just 110V, it would probably be D.O.A. in the market.  But of course dual would also work for places like the UK.   3 Grand is a lot of money, it's much easier to justify if you can expand it's use.

Quality, quiet, portable generators are not cheap. If someone is looking at a generator, but then has this as an option, it would be something many folks would consider instead. Without dual voltage, that option is basically dead.  It takes nothing to have the all ready designed into it, even if the plugs being used don't have a center tap.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2020, 06:28 PM »
You’re exactly right. There are already plenty of options available to anyone who wants power at their cabin. They don’t need a Festool one, and I don’t think they’ll want to pay extra just because it has a huge surge capacity, or because it’s in a systainer.

But if I’m wrong, and there is actually a massive market in rural America for a highly portable power bank in systainer format, with 11KW surge capacity, I’m sure Festool will make a killing when they eventually make the 120v version.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2020, 07:52 PM »
   I don't think the rural America theory holds much water either way. We do have electricity even here in the sticks.  Yes, maybe the whole cabin in the woods thing but that really has nothing to do with people living rural areas and is unlikely to be a big market. Plenty of city residents have cabins in the woods too.

   It will have a lot more to do with CONVENIENCE. Even if there is electricity on site. If I did a lot of site work where running cords was a nuisance or there were other workers on the same site. It would be great to just bring along my own portable power source and put it right where I want it.  No gas, no noise, no one else using it or messing with it.

Seth

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2020, 08:24 PM »
from the rural stand point, it's more the cabin thing, but also folks with big properties where cords don't reach.  Plenty of folks who don't want to use a generator.

But as mentioned, folks will look for other options than festool.  But if someone is looking at the festool option, being able to use it for the most possible ways will be key to spending that sort of money.

Offline demographic

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #78 on: December 25, 2020, 04:41 AM »
For UK site usage its worth pointing out that most large commercial sites are usually pretty good (with big transformers and 110 volt sockets at regular intervals) but housing and holiday lodge sites are generally very poorly done and we need to get a generator to them.
Having ond of those darn things clattering away gets old fast especially when most of our tools are cordless anyway.
About the only ones that aren't are the extractors and sometimes chopsaws, maybe lights.

Thing is those gennys are clattering away all day, just to provide power for short periods of burst power.

Personally I was wanting to get one of the De-Walt powerstations but they're not for sale over here in 110 volts and even if they were the sockets are the dodgy US things and I can't see many safety bods liking it.

It being in a Systainer makes sense to me but at the moment the cost is a bit salty.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2020, 07:10 AM »
Tbh, no one on here will buy one anyway, because it’s in the new Systainer3 design... ;)

Offline demographic

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2020, 02:08 PM »
Tbh, no one on here will buy one anyway, because it’s in the new Systainer3 design... ;)

The basic design of em is pretty good, only problem being they lost the good idea about the heights playing well together down the back of the sofa.
Its easy enough to sort, just make the heights slightly different.

Online DeformedTree

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2020, 03:28 PM »
Tbh, no one on here will buy one anyway, because it’s in the new Systainer3 design... ;)

If Festool puts label holders on the side of the powerstation I might be more open.

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2020, 04:51 PM »
The basic design of em is pretty good, only problem being they lost the good idea about the heights playing well together down the back of the sofa.
Its easy enough to sort, just make the heights slightly different.
They didn’t accidentally drop the height system. They did it on purpose. They’re not going to ‘sort’ it out because there’s nothing to sort out. They’ve made a decision.

Offline fuzzy logic

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2020, 12:10 AM »
I agree with Spandex.  Just going to have to take it on the chin - anything else is just hot air.  Also, I don't see Festool explaining, or justifying themselves, wrt their 'commercial' decisions.
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline demographic

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2020, 08:11 AM »
They didn’t accidentally drop the height system. They did it on purpose. They’re not going to ‘sort’ it out because there’s nothing to sort out. They’ve made a decision.

Aye, just like the decision about not making an 18 volt impact screwdriver.
Oh, hang on a bit... [wink]

Offline mrB

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #85 on: December 26, 2020, 08:39 AM »

They didn’t accidentally drop the height system. They did it on purpose. They’re not going to ‘sort’ it out because there’s nothing to sort out. They’ve made a decision.

Jeez, You  really enjoy telling people to get over this issue don’t you. Not sure why you are so against people voicing their opinions on the new sys3.

I’m pretty sure everyone here is fully aware of how unlikely it is our venting will affect Festools decisions. But talking festool is kinda what this forum is about, and if lots of users have a dislike I think posting it here is pretty reasonable.

there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Spandex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #86 on: December 26, 2020, 10:47 AM »
 [laughing]

I’m all for people expressing their opinions on here, and I’m all for people agreeing or disagreeing with those opinions.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 144
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2020, 10:56 AM »
Aye, just like the decision about not making an 18 volt impact screwdriver.
Oh, hang on a bit... [wink]
That’s a little bit different.

They haven’t made a recip saw, or a cordless router, or a nail gun either. That isn’t the same as them deciding they’re never making them. But by bringing out the sizes of sys3 that they have, they’ve broken the height matching system and can’t fix it simply by bringing out more sizes. A decision has been made that can’t be ‘sorted’, and I think it’s safe to assume they realised those implications when they made that decision.

Offline Coen

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2021, 08:50 AM »
What I'm starting to wonder now is, since it is a 230 volt power source, does it come with the usual protections a standard electrical installation comes? I already read on that site linked above that it has no grounding. I wonder how this thing is going to comply with all the legal obligations for 230 volt power sources.

No grounding means antistatic hose... is no longer antistatic.

The main issue for the US will be how long it takes them to make a 110v version
Or they make this a 110-240V, 50-60Hz input device and afterwards drop any and all other 110V stuff, since you now can obtain a working converter (with benefits) for your obsolete kind of mains power (which is, when seen from the perspective of worldwide prevalence these days, irrelevant).

They could just solve all and make them all with a NEMA 14-20 receptacle.  Make it a global choose your own adventure as it does both 110 and 220 (up to 250VAC really).  Folks just use the right adapter for their part of the world. Sell nice green adapters for what ever country/need people want.

Add: Before anyone ask, 50/60Hz is basically a non issue to devices, but if it was, they could just have a 50/60Hz switch on it as that is just part of the controller switching built into it as is.   Similar for the voltage, they all handle ranges,  100-120VAC,  200-250VAC.



Hahahaha, so you want the whole world to adapt a dumbass plug so you can keep your 110V nonsense? Yeah, that definitely is not gonna happen.