Author Topic: new multi battery charger inverter power supply  (Read 20701 times)

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Offline 10eighty

  • Posts: 4
new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« on: March 18, 2020, 04:07 AM »
OK so here is an interesting rumour
Festool are supposedly working on a multiple battery charger systainer that has a built in inverter enabling it to output as a stand alone 240/110 volt supply for there power tools
This means you could step on site with 2/3/4 batteries in this unit and it could supply power without mains power to a series of 240/110 volt tools of you choice without mains power requirements.
No bloody extension leads to run a TS55r rail saw in the middle of a field, no generators nothing.
If this is possible it will be a piece of genius   

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2050
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2020, 04:58 AM »
Doesn't surprise me, many of the other cordless tool manufacturers have similar products available now.

The DeWalt 1800 watt power station/charger is ~$500 plus batteries, and it's not in a Systainer of course which will be a nice feature of the FT version. A pair of DeWalt 60V FlexVOLT batteries will set you back another ~$250.

The EGO 56V 3000 Watt (peak, 2000W continuous) Power Station comes with two EGO 56V 7.5AH batteries and is ~$999. It can use up to four of their batteries. Looking through the manual I did not find a table that gave projected run times with different battery combinations, not even a statement that with four 7.5AH batteries and a 2000W load you can expect a run time of x, which is a bit disconcerting. I'd like a better idea of what I can expect for my $1000 than that.

Do you know if the FT unit will function as a power hub too. Meaning if mains power is available can it be used to power multiple corded tools and have ports to charge various voltage batteries. Then when working where mains power is not available would function as an inverter. I wonder what the waveform of the inverter output will be, square wave, modified sine wave, pulsed sine wave, pure sine wave, or something else. It makes a difference to the devices you might want to power form the unit.

I think this will be a nice addition to the FT lineup, and look forward to seeing what they come out with. I'm not sure it is something I will need as I rarely work away from mains power where I can use the charger supplied with my tools to keep the batteries up, and I have a couple portable generators in various sizes so I'm covered there. They are not silent and can't be used indoors which is a big plus but they run for many hours on a tank of fuel.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 04:56 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1041
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2020, 09:19 AM »
It will be so much more that the Dewalt setup it won’t be worth even considering. And don’t get caught up thinking you can use your existing batteries. You will be able to use some of them, but won’t be happy with the performance unless you have all max capacity batteries.

I have some 60v max capacity batteries that I bought for some of their tools and have been eyeing up one of these.

Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 158
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2020, 11:02 AM »
It will be so much more that the Dewalt setup it won’t be worth even considering.

you got some juicy info?

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1750
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2020, 12:02 PM »
The EGO 56V 3000 Watt (peak, 2000W continuous) Power Station comes with two EGO 56V 7.5AH batteries and is ~$999. It can use up to four of their batteries. Looking through the manual I did not find a table that gave projected run times with different battery combinations, not even a statement that with four 7.5AH batteries and a 2000W load you can expect a run time of x, which is a bit disconcerting. I'd like a better idea of what I can expect for my $1000 than that.
56V*7.5Ah = 420Wh in such a battery,
leading to 420Wh / 2000 W = 0.21h or 12.6 minutes of run time,
per battery,
given 2KW continuous load,
minus what is lost to losses (entropy will collect its toll).

I would think a ballpark of 10 minutes would be a reasonable expectation, which would make the system suitable for quite some applications, IMHO.

Also given one can get the EGO thing with two batteries for $999 (and the spec you posted is correct)... impressive, when comparing to eg. https://www.apc.com/shop/de/de/products/APC-Smart-UPS-SRT-3000-VA-Rackmount-230-V/P-SRT3000RMXLI which is factor 3.5 in price but delivers less run time (for the same 2kW load) than what one battery of the EGO system gives.

Nice.

They should add a way to directly hook up a string of solar panels to load the connected batteries, and make that a 240V version [smile]

Offline 10eighty

  • Posts: 4
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2020, 04:06 PM »
I have always thought something like this was possible when you consider solar bank tech
They have been doing similar things for years
The Rep I spoke to was supposed to be off to a festool gathering where they were talking about the intro of this tech he seemed to think it was not far off release
He said it would have ports for charging phones and at a guess maybe run laptops if it was using a sine wave inverter like they have standard on Honda gen sets
I just like the idea of the mobility
I have ten plus 5.2 amp hour batteries and just having a multi charger would be really handy
I have the Hilti charger that does four and the makita that does four 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5198
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2020, 04:26 PM »
Just for comparison, here’s some specs for the Tesla Powerwall.
Price $6500 not including some other necessities
Usable Capacity
13.5 kWh
Depth of Discharge
100%
Efficiency
90% round-trip
Power
7kW peak / 5kW continuous
Supported Applications
Solar self-consumption
Back-up power
Time-Based control
Off-grid capabilities
Warranty
10 years
Scalable
Up to 10 Powerwalls
Operating Temperature
-4°F to 122°F / -20°C to 50°C
Dimensions
L x W x D: 45.3" x 29.6" x 5.75"
(1150 mm x 753 mm x 147 mm)
Weight
251.3 lbs / 114 kg
Installation
Floor or wall mounted
Indoor or outdoor

Offline William W

  • Posts: 48
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 02:15 PM »
Just came across this on Instagram. A bit more info on the sys powerstation

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 685
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2020, 02:37 PM »
If its 110 volts will it have the decent yellow site plugs or the quite frankly junk American things?

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 191
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 07:17 AM »
Data due to be available from 7th December apparently.
Do hate their drip feeding of "product release" news
'Sys-Powerstation'
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 685
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2020, 12:26 PM »
And if it works as a charger does it keep beeping every ten seconds as its charging like the TCL6.
Its bloody irritating if it does. Whoever thought that was a good idea wants locking in a quiet room with it for a few hours. Then battered over the back of the head with a scaffold tube.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 974
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2020, 12:34 PM »
I too received an email with the same image today.
It seems like a big power bank. Large power banks with inverters seems to pop up from outdoor equipment shops these days too.

If it can both charge and utilise Festool’s batteries to increase output it would be very interesting.
I suspect pricing well above $1000  [scared] - But for the pro, it may be a great addition. The TS may very well be a TSC for site use with this power bank.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 191
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2020, 12:41 PM »
If its 110 volts will it have the decent yellow site plugs or the quite frankly junk American things?
The image I posted earlier, seems to show a power outlet that is the same as on their PowerHub. So that might point to a 'mains' in whatever market it is being sold in, so 240V for us in the UK. However that immediately restricts the market by 50% as it excludes all 110V site work. Or will they of both?
Retired engineer/scientist

Online Alex

  • Posts: 7408
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2020, 12:43 PM »
A 220 volt battery pack, I can see how that can be useful. Now I can finally take my guitar amp outside when I go busking on the street.  120 watts metal on Dam square! [big grin] And mine goes to 11.

And if it works as a charger does it keep beeping every ten seconds as its charging like the TCL6.
Its bloody irritating if it does. Whoever thought that was a good idea wants locking in a quiet room with it for a few hours. Then battered over the back of the head with a scaffold tube.

Open the charger, locate the metal thingy that acts as a speaker and cut one if its wires. And maybe be a bit more diplomatic in your criticism.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 974
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 12:57 PM »
On Makita chargers you can even choose the melody it plays... [wink] [big grin] [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 191
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2020, 01:03 PM »
On Makita chargers you can even choose the melody it plays... [wink] [big grin] [big grin]

Suddenly I'm wondering whether I could select different melodies on my twin charger and do mash-ups.
CSX T18+3 TID18 HKC55 OSC18 OS400 OF1010 LR32 DF700 RAS115 DTS400 ETC125 CTSys CTMidi CT-VA

Online Alex

  • Posts: 7408
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2020, 02:38 PM »
On Makita chargers you can even choose the melody it plays... [wink] [big grin] [big grin]

Now why would you need anything but Für Elise ??  [smile]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8456
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2020, 09:40 AM »

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 974
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2020, 09:51 AM »
Hey @Alex Who’s Fur(y) Elise?
Have you decoded the melodies on the chargers?  [blink]  You need to enlighten us.. [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8456
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2020, 10:02 AM »
Beethoven...

Online Alex

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Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2020, 11:14 AM »
Hey @Alex Who’s Fur(y) Elise?
Have you decoded the melodies on the chargers?  [blink]  You need to enlighten us.. [big grin]

Fur Elise is one of the most famous classical pieces, composed by Beethoven for his daughter Elise. It is also the default music on Makita chargers I believe. A carpenter friend of mine has Makita gear and his charger always plays Fur Elise.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 685
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2020, 12:41 PM »
On Makita chargers you can even choose the melody it plays... [wink] [big grin] [big grin]

It's not so much it playing a sound when its fully charged thats the issue, its the fact that some berk thought it was a good idea for it to beep every ten seconds all the time its charging.

Festools version of Chinese water torture and as I often charge the batteries in the site canteen or office its almost guaranteed to get it switched off before its charged.

I honestly have no idea why someone thought it was a good idea for 8t to do that.

I like the thought of this new powerstation thing, but I liked the idea of the De-Walt version and that never happened in the UK either so I'm not holding my breath for it.

For me it needs to be 110 (or thereabouts) volts output to go with UK site voltage.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 879
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2020, 02:18 PM »
On Makita chargers you can even choose the melody it plays... [wink] [big grin] [big grin]

It's not so much it playing a sound when its fully charged thats the issue, its the fact that some berk thought it was a good idea for it to beep every ten seconds all the time its charging.

Festools version of Chinese water torture and as I often charge the batteries in the site canteen or office its almost guaranteed to get it switched off before its charged.

I honestly have no idea why someone thought it was a good idea for 8t to do that.

I like the thought of this new powerstation thing, but I liked the idea of the De-Walt version and that never happened in the UK either so I'm not holding my breath for it.

For me it needs to be 110 (or thereabouts) volts output to go with UK site voltage.

100% agree.

Definitely seems like a stupid feature.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 879
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2020, 02:28 PM »
Kinda excited about this sys power pack! I wonder what the deal will be.

Obviously thing like price and runtime with a tool will be deciding factors. I wonder if it will have the power to run a Vac and a Tool?

"for a guaranteed working day"  Surely that rules out 18v batteries in that little systainer, I'd guess you couldn't get enough 18v batteries in that thing to run a vac and sander for 4 hrs. .

there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 191
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2020, 03:47 PM »
Looking at current Lithium battery technology, I suspect they could pack about a single kWh into that systainer. Similar powerbanks are available for about £800 or USD1000 but these are Chinese. So lets say USD2000 minimum for a Festool version?

The 4Ah Festool battery is about 72Wh, so you would need 14 of them to achieve that capacity!

A kWh isn't going to run anything for long continuously. A vac and sander maybe an hour. It would be better suited to cutting, where the 'duty cycle' is on average over a day low. A Kapex and vac could probably make upwards of a 100 cuts.

A Tesla has around 70kWh minimum .

Its a lot of lithium battery!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 03:52 PM by AstroKeith »
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 974
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2020, 07:55 PM »
@Cheese @Alex , Thanks, I’m learning as we speak. I have felt there was something familiar with the melody - I’ll hook it on the sound that is, well, annoying electronic in sound [embarassed]

To be honest, most of the time I only recognise the sound from a room far away or being outside when the charger is inside. So in these situations it’s valuable, but when it’s going off right next to me it’s not - so said the misses back then [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 172

Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 191
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2020, 08:03 AM »
i underestimated its capacity. So I suspect I underestimated its price too!

For the UK it seems to be 230Vac only, no built in 18V charger either.

If we assume they can do it for USD2000, I'd be interested in whether this is an attractive proposition for contractors working on sites.
Retired engineer/scientist

Online Alex

  • Posts: 7408
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2020, 09:50 AM »
What I'm starting to wonder now is, since it is a 230 volt power source, does it come with the usual protections a standard electrical installation comes? I already read on that site linked above that it has no grounding. I wonder how this thing is going to comply with all the legal obligations for 230 volt power sources.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 172
Re: new multi battery charger inverter power supply
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2020, 10:27 AM »
It's no different to a generator, and I suspect is governed by the same regulations.

If a particular territory requires additional electrical protections to be used when using a generator on site, then those same requirements would apply here. People have been making, approving and using generators for decades, so I can't see it being an issue really.