Author Topic: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw  (Read 7698 times)

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Offline Holzhacker

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2019, 10:21 AM »
Another corporate statement carefully worded with the help of lawyers. At least they came out with a statement.
Speaking completely from where the sun doesn't shine, I have to wonder if this wasn't some sort of supply chain quality control issue. Something where Festool was getting various internal components for the Kapex from other manufacturer's anyone of which may or may not have been the problem. Components made by the supplier in the morning worked great. Components made by the supplier after a liquid lunch, not so great.
I don't know.
My Kapex has been working on jobs and the shop for years. Never smoked, never had any of those other failure signs. It's aa pre 2017 if that matters.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Kevin D.

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2019, 11:19 AM »
I gotta respect anyone for finally coming out and wearing the egg, especially if they didn't have to.  It's rare to see this with any company unless there is some regulatory or mass media uprising.  This was late, but nonetheless worthy. 
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Doug S

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2019, 05:03 PM »
Glad Festool have finally made a statement although they have only really confirmed what we already knew.

I don't think they need a full recall but certainly should contact all Kapex owners directly explaining the situation and offer to repair any burnt out saw whatever age with the updated part FOC. As far as I know the statement is only on here, not on their websites or anything so you would only know about it if you are on the FOG.

The one good thing to come out of it is members should now stop telling people who have had problems with their saw that they must have been abusing it/ using a blunt blade/ bad technique/ running it through extractor/ wrong size cable etc etc

Doug


Offline James Biddle

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2019, 08:24 PM »
What will they say the first time a failure occurs for a Kapex built after 2017?  Has it already?

Online Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2019, 03:45 AM »
What will they say the first time a failure occurs for a Kapex built after 2017?  Has it already?

I was hoping nobody would ask that  [big grin]

Offline jellyroll

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2019, 07:12 AM »
2019 Kapex REB available in US in Oct with improved motor? Pre-order https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-new-products/festool-575306-kapex-ks-120-reb-sliding-compound-miter-saw-2019-model.html

I don’t know if this is legitimate.

Offline hemlock

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2019, 09:20 AM »
Interesting.  According to the link it does say...what is new on this model is...(among other things)

"Internal changes to the motor have been made to help increase service life"


Online Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2019, 09:54 AM »
2019 Kapex REB available in US in Oct with improved motor? Pre-order https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-new-products/festool-575306-kapex-ks-120-reb-sliding-compound-miter-saw-2019-model.html

I don’t know if this is legitimate.

Yes it's legitimate, they have been available in Europe for a while now, I have one myself.
It's part of a group of tools from Festool that are heading to the USA in October.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2019, 10:07 AM »
Interesting.  According to the link it does say...what is new on this model is...(among other things)

"Internal changes to the motor have been made to help increase service life"

We will find out how true this is as time goes by. It did take a while before users started complaining about the motor problem of the current generation of Kapexes.

I certainly hope Festool has nailed down the motor problem(s), and the fix(es) can be applied to the pre-2019 model if and when an older model Kapex goes south. As long as its motor is not a lemon, it is indeed the best-performing CMS in the market in many aspects.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 10:11 AM by ChuckM »

Offline joemodern

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2019, 07:12 PM »
They did this at no charge to me other than the initial shipping to them.
That seems unacceptable.

Offline Gunder

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2019, 06:12 PM »
Talk is cheap and cash talks and bull stuff walks.... so why doesn't Fesstool put some teeth in this statement and agree to extended the warranty on the motors?  Seems like it would be an awfully cheap way for them to end this PR nightmare.  FWIW Festool did replace my motor for $75.44 plus shipping.  It would have been nice to have some sort of guarantee that it won't happen again.

Offline WarrenT

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2019, 10:31 AM »
I am a long time wood worker but very new to Festool.  I recently purchased a couple of sanders and a CT 26 dust collector.  They are all great tools and I am very pleased with them.

My old Makita miter saw is due to be replaced and I am interested in a Kapex.  Like everyone else here, I am aware of the issues and noticed that the new model had been introduced in the UK.

I wrote to Festool Customer Service on July 8, 2019 asking if they could tell me when the new Kapex would be introduced here in the US.   I received the following reply.

“Hello,
There is no information available at this time about the introduction of the Kapex 120 REB tool to the North American Market. To stay informed of all Festool announcements you can sign up to the email distribution list by clicking on the link below.”

I wrote back and politely told them I thought their reply was disingenuous, that some one in Festool should know the answer.  There was no reply back to my second note. 

Although I am glad to see the new and hopefully improved Kapex will be available soon, I can’t help but wonder about all the secrecy and what certainly feels like deceit on the part of Festool.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 10:34 AM by WarrenT »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2019, 10:44 AM »
@WarrenT  best thing that can be said about Festool’s marketing is that it’s myopic.

You wrote Festool July 8? Seems like that was mere days before Shane dropped this news about new products including the revised Kapex.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2019, 11:36 AM »
I am a long time wood worker but very new to Festool.  I recently purchased a couple of sanders and a CT 26 dust collector.  They are all great tools and I am very pleased with them.

My old Makita miter saw is due to be replaced and I am interested in a Kapex.  Like everyone else here, I am aware of the issues and noticed that the new model had been introduced in the UK.

I wrote to Festool Customer Service on July 8, 2019 asking if they could tell me when the new Kapex would be introduced here in the US.   I received the following reply.

“Hello,
There is no information available at this time about the introduction of the Kapex 120 REB tool to the North American Market. To stay informed of all Festool announcements you can sign up to the email distribution list by clicking on the link below.”

I wrote back and politely told them I thought their reply was disingenuous, that some one in Festool should know the answer.  There was no reply back to my second note. 

Although I am glad to see the new and hopefully improved Kapex will be available soon, I can’t help but wonder about all the secrecy and what certainly feels like deceit on the part of Festool.

Hi Warren,

    Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

        I am sure someone at Festool knows everything. But until official announcements are approved by the people that run the company, no one is going to tell anyone about anything. This is going to be true of every company.

Seth

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2019, 12:49 PM »
I am a long time wood worker but very new to Festool.  I recently purchased a couple of sanders and a CT 26 dust collector.  They are all great tools and I am very pleased with them.

My old Makita miter saw is due to be replaced and I am interested in a Kapex.  Like everyone else here, I am aware of the issues and noticed that the new model had been introduced in the UK.

I wrote to Festool Customer Service on July 8, 2019 asking if they could tell me when the new Kapex would be introduced here in the US.   I received the following reply.

“Hello,
There is no information available at this time about the introduction of the Kapex 120 REB tool to the North American Market. To stay informed of all Festool announcements you can sign up to the email distribution list by clicking on the link below.”

I wrote back and politely told them I thought their reply was disingenuous, that some one in Festool should know the answer.  There was no reply back to my second note. 

Although I am glad to see the new and hopefully improved Kapex will be available soon, I can’t help but wonder about all the secrecy and what certainly feels like deceit on the part of Festool.

Hi Warren,

    Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

        I am sure someone at Festool knows everything. But until official announcements are approved by the people that run the company, no one is going to tell anyone about anything. This is going to be true of every company.

Seth

I think most companies follow similar guidelines regarding future tool releases........In 2017 I contacted Bosch Marketing inquiring when the 12V FlexiClick would be available in the US and got nearly the same response below.  Less than 3 weeks later it was listed online for preorder with availability 30 days later, so I think Festool simply responded in typical fashion.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 12:52 PM by Dick Mahany »

Offline WarrenT

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2019, 04:48 PM »
Thank you Seth for the welcome and to Michael and Dick for your advice.   I am fortunate to be retired so woodworking and this Kapex business are a hobby for me.

Given the Kapex debacle I thought perhaps Festool would be interested in stepping up their customer service game a bit on this issue.  By the time you buy that saw, a dust hose, and a couple of blades, you are into it for a couple of thousand bucks. I expected a little more help from Festool with my question, but I am sure they realize their company won’t live or die based on my purchases.

Thanks again for the responses.  8)

Online threesixright

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Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2019, 05:16 PM »
I am a long time wood worker but very new to Festool.  I recently purchased a couple of sanders and a CT 26 dust collector.  They are all great tools and I am very pleased with them.

My old Makita miter saw is due to be replaced and I am interested in a Kapex.  Like everyone else here, I am aware of the issues and noticed that the new model had been introduced in the UK.

I wrote to Festool Customer Service on July 8, 2019 asking if they could tell me when the new Kapex would be introduced here in the US.   I received the following reply.

“Hello,
There is no information available at this time about the introduction of the Kapex 120 REB tool to the North American Market. To stay informed of all Festool announcements you can sign up to the email distribution list by clicking on the link below.”

I wrote back and politely told them I thought their reply was disingenuous, that some one in Festool should know the answer.  There was no reply back to my second note. 

Although I am glad to see the new and hopefully improved Kapex will be available soon, I can’t help but wonder about all the secrecy and what certainly feels like deceit on the part of Festool.
Deceit? Are you kidding me, what do they win with that? They make all these great tools. And when it comes to a mitre saw, they would choose to willingly mislead their customers? I don’t see it.

Maybe there is no secrecy? Just a tool that breaks a little bit more then it should ? There are no numbers (AFAIK) of sold vs issues so it’s a endless debate. Without facts.

No offense. I understand you want a good tool (who wouldn’t). But if you have doubts by another brand? I’m on the fence for a Kapex and will not give this “potential” issue a second thought. I only hear and read great reviews and that some people have had issues. I’m sure people also had their drill or sander break after “just” been out of warranty.


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Offline glass1

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2019, 09:52 PM »
You are ridiculous.

Offline harry_

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2019, 10:11 PM »
Quote
I only hear and read great reviews and that some people have had issues.

I fit into both of these categories. I have two. Both are used on site. If you use a SCMS for a living the KAPEX is worth the investment... and the 'risk'

One had recently gone back to Indiana for a 'motor repair'. $900+ in parts and two weeks later (Festool service if FAST, UPS however not so much, they fixed things I didn't even realize I was having issues with!  I was fortunate in that it was still under warranty.

I swear the saw is smoother than day one out of the box!
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Online threesixright

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2019, 03:45 AM »
@glass1
I wrote "no offence" ???

Was just trying to say deceitful and disingenuous are strong words, if you can't back-it-up with facts. Although I would wish FT was more open and transparent about this, I don't think they deserve these qualifications.

@harry_
Thanks, my point.

Online Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2019, 04:41 AM »
I have heard first hand, and read many stories on websites including this one, about Kapex 120 failures. So many in fact I could possibly write a book about it!

The issue or potential issue for certain 120’s to take a dive is very real, not a myth or hearsay, it was/is still a potential issue with many saws out there.

Also, and this is opinion based, I have found that number of issues I alone have heard and know about to be worrying for such a premium tool with a substantial price tag.
So, the problem is real, that’s not what Festool or a customer wants by any means but, none the less it exists.
So, it’s then, as a company, how Festool deal with the “problem” that matters.
Blaming user error or voltage fluctuation is like rubbing salt in the wound. Denying there is any problem or potential problem is plain silly, and a bit of an insult.

I have had a multitude of mitre saws over many years from various makes, and they have worked hard, and none ever suffered this type of failure?

I didn’t buy a Kapex for a very long time, because of the doubt deep in my mind brought on by the stories of failures.

I recently unexpectedly needed to buy another large mitre saw, I still fancied a Kapex because of all of the great reports I’d heard about them. I have heard far more really good reports and reviews, rather than bad, so I was in a quandary.

I then heard about a new improved KS 120 REB. So, I decided to take a chance, if it dies, I have warranty (for a while).

I’ve now used the saw a lot, for all kinds, from small trims to roof trusses and joists.
I and anybody that uses it, look after and respect it but, it gets used throughout it’s capacity, not baby’d or wrapped in cotton wall, just used as it was designed for.
It does spend more time in a workshop than on site, as we have other saws for the majority of site work but, even in the workshop, it’s cutting all kinds.

I really do love the saw, it is everything I’d heard it would be and more, and when you actually own one, you realise how good a design they are. The only thing I still can’t get used to, is the sound of the motor. I say that about the Festool plunge saws as well though. So not an issue, just something I need to get used too.

So, hopefully the latest saw, and later parts on the older saws will eradicate the issue, or potential for it, lets hope so, as I’m sure Festool do too.

I appreciate the statement here, it confirms what most of us already knew, and is more transparent than I’ve heard from many Festool employees.
I have asked many times Festool employees, Festool dealers etc about the issue, most or many shrug their shoulders and say “what issue?” Or words to that effect. Some have been very honest, and although loyal to the company they work for, have acknowledged what’s been asked, and usually reply that certain parts on certain machines had the potential to fail.

So that at least tells me, they knew/know of the problem.
So the statement here although very welcomed, was quite a long time coming, and I’ve only ever seen it stated here, nowhere else?

I must say though, the reports of Kapex failures seem to be a lot fewer now, both on here and elsewhere. Let’s hope it continues that way.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2019, 10:47 AM »


One had recently gone back to Indiana for a 'motor repair'. $900+ in parts
I hope this is a misquote. I have seen $300 quotes or something like that before in this forum. $900 for real?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2019, 12:25 PM »


One had recently gone back to Indiana for a 'motor repair'. $900+ in parts
I hope this is a misquote. I have seen $300 quotes or something like that before in this forum. $900 for real?

He wrote it was covered under warranty.  He also wrote that a whole bunch of other stuff was replaced.

Peter

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2019, 01:04 PM »
a new Kapex is $1500; $900 is 60%...who would spend that kind of money if it was out of warranty. If my car broke down and the dealership quoted me a repair cost at 60% of a brand new model, I know it had to be april 1st.

Offline harry_

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2019, 10:06 AM »


One had recently gone back to Indiana for a 'motor repair'. $900+ in parts
I hope this is a misquote. I have seen $300 quotes or something like that before in this forum. $900 for real?

I was surprised by the length of the parts list of all was replaced. So I got curious and looked them all up via EKAT and since i was going through the bother, fetched the prices for those parts as well.

A one of those items to me was an obvious non-warranty item.  A wing for the fence. it was an obvious 'mis-use' as one of my guys attempted a bevel cut without sliding the wing out of the way. I just chalked it up to Festool service going the extra mile to take care of a (Kapex) customer.

They also changed out the baseplate. I didn't know I had an issue there. Had they called me on it I would have paid to 'upgrade' the baseplate to the new style w/ the extensions (if compatible). Not complaining, just saying.

Granted the parts were priced at retail not cost. Given the parts replaced, which required a near complete teardown with labor factored in I couldn't help but wonder why they didn't just send a new saw. Not saying that they _should_ have but I was wowed by the extent/(their) cost of repair.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Online threesixright

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2019, 11:16 AM »
a new Kapex is $1500; $900 is 60%...who would spend that kind of money if it was out of warranty. If my car broke down and the dealership quoted me a repair cost at 60% of a brand new model, I know it had to be april 1st.
I assume you meant you buy the new one? :o  In that case, still depends on the price of the car, no?  [big grin]

If its repaired (basically refurbished for that price?) with warranty, I would give it a second thought. Especially if there are no differences between the models.


Offline ChuckM

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2019, 07:50 PM »
In all the industries I have worked, any repair cost quoted at 60% of a brand new purchase of the same or similar item would be deemed as beyond economical repair, and the item is usually written off. But antiques, sentimental objects etc. warrant a different set of considerations of course.

a brand passenger car these days costs about $20,000 - $30,000 (Cdn). I cannot imagine paying $10,000 for a fix on an old car. For a higher-end car at $60,000 - $80,000, a $35,000 repair bill for an older model would hardly be a good investment even though warranty for the parts replaced is usually included...unless it is paid by the insurance company.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 08:55 PM by ChuckM »

Online threesixright

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Re: Message from Festool about Kapex Miter Saw
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2019, 04:31 AM »
In all the industries I have worked, any repair cost quoted at 60% of a brand new purchase of the same or similar item would be deemed as beyond economical repair, and the item is usually written off. But antiques, sentimental objects etc. warrant a different set of considerations of course.

a brand passenger car these days costs about $20,000 - $30,000 (Cdn). I cannot imagine paying $10,000 for a fix on an old car. For a higher-end car at $60,000 - $80,000, a $35,000 repair bill for an older model would hardly be a good investment even though warranty for the parts replaced is usually included...unless it is paid by the insurance company.
It all depends what the 10K is for.  If its a fix that makes you be able to run it without issues another 10 years. You shoot yourself in the food (spending another 20k) being a new car(economical wise). If its just (another) 10K, and you expect new bills pouring in monthly, I agree.

I understood this (Kapex repair) is basically a refurbished price. So you should expect the Kapex to run another 10 years, which put the repair costs IMO in another day-light.