Author Topic: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!  (Read 7836 times)

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Offline bwehman

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The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« on: September 27, 2019, 11:40 AM »
Not sure how many of you all have run across these, but seems like they did an amazing job incorporating that vertical carrying handle and such. My OCD tendencies are bummed that I'll have a mix of systainer generations, ha, but I'll take that trade off for what looks to be a superior design.

https://www.festool.com/campaigns/microsites/mobility


Offline Euclid

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 11:58 AM »
We debated these at some length a little while ago, and they received a rather mixed reception.
If you are already concerned about having a mix of old and new, then you might want to restrain your excitement until you have studied the dimensions... that may (or may not) irk you rather more than minor cosmetic differences...(!)

:-)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 12:00 PM by Euclid »

Offline safety1st

  • Posts: 184
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 12:18 PM »
From that link

"Festool will convert all products to Systainer³ in a gradual process, starting in 2020."

I guess this answers the question whether systainer3 is an add-on or a replacement design.

Offline xedos

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 10:52 AM »
What do you think is superior on this generation?   I see some changes , but none superior in my view. 

I do see some issues with the new heights though. 

Link to big discussion:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-and-tanos-systainers/systainer3-available-from-september/



Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 01:27 PM »
The height difference is my gripe too, and in honesty the vertical carry handle doesn’t excite me that much, as most of the contents in my Systainers lends itself better, to be carried with the top handle.

Online Cheese

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 02:00 PM »
I agree with Jiggy, the front handle is nice for removing a Systainer from a cubby but that’s pretty much the end of its usefulness.

Take an installers set with all of those 1” bits stored in the many small pockets. Then turn it on it’s side and carry it somewhere. Open it up...what do you have?

Offline xedos

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2019, 04:41 PM »
front handle available for current t-locs if you want:

 

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 06:15 PM »
And the image at the start of the thread shows a top and a front handle.  For my needs that works better and would allow more compact spacing of Systainers on shelves or in my van.

Peter

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 09:12 PM »
How is the new one more compact when they’re taller ? 

That doesn’t sound more compact at all and may necessitate reconfiguring your van racks/shelves for sysII-V.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 09:19 PM by xedos »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2019, 11:03 PM »
How is the new one more compact when they’re taller ? 

That doesn’t sound more compact at all and may necessitate reconfiguring your van racks/shelves for sysII-V.

Depending on the height actually needed it is possible that a shorter Systainer could take the place of a taller one. That, of course is situational. EX- I have more than one Sys - III that is too tall but a Sys - II is too short. I didn't check the new heights just now, but if one of the new ones is in between a current Sys - II and III it would save space. Like I said though, it is situational.

What is not situational is that the integrated front handle (which is more compact and fits inside the footprint compared to  the add on front handle) will make it easier to pull Systainers from racks or shelving.  Making it so that very little space is needed between shelves. Since the Systainer can be slid straight out without or tipping or tilting or bumping / catching on the one above or below. And no hand / finger space is needed above , below, or at the sides to pull it out.

 I can even see the handle being useful if the Systainer is on a drawer. The Sys handle effectively becoming the drawer handle.

Plus with the built in slide / grooves / channels the new ones can just into slots. Zero shelf or drawer space needed.

Seth
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 11:06 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline Coen

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2019, 12:40 AM »
The new heights look pretty irritating. With the old system you could just put a SYS-III on one side to support something, and two stacked SYS-I's on the other side. There is no way stacking smaller Systainers of the 3 variety to get to the same height as a larger one.

Compare heights;
old;
105
157.5
210
315
420

new;
105
130
180
230
330
430

All heights above are in [mm] and w/o feet, so add 7mm for each stack.

 [sad]

Offline Gregor

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2019, 04:30 AM »
[sad]
At least they have left the SYS 1 height, would have been an absolute shame if had they messed that up too as a SYS 1 is nice way to support very long things for the Kapex (when used on an even surface without the cart).

But apart from that I agree, the new height increments make stacking temporary supports of even height way harder than before - which is a downgrade compared to the old version.

The handles seem to be a downgrade too: the front one looks like getting in the way when accessing a the T-LOC of the systainer below and the top handle (folding toward the front, though it makes sense when grabbing it to lift the systainer from a rack) will, unless being locked in place by something now visible on the photos, extend on it's own when carring the systainer on the front handle - unless that front handle will break off anyway in case the systainer isn't empty, it dosn't look sturdy enough to take much load (apart from what's needed to pull the systainer out of the rack).

Seems like someone stopped thinking this throught somewhere half-way.

Offline xedos

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2019, 09:21 AM »
SYS1 height is not the same as the saw bed height on the original Kapex.   

I'm not sure about the "revised" 120 edition. I do know they align on the smaller kapex 60 though , which is NAINA.

Offline demographic

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2019, 12:48 PM »
I like almost everything about these new boxes, other than the fact that some wally forgot about the heights matching.

It's been part of the sales pitch for Festol boxes for twenty or more years and I'm utterly stunned that they allowed these out the factory without that feature.

There must be some reason that explains it and I'm missing it. To me it just seems like they were so close but dropped the ball at the end.

Offline Gregor

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2019, 08:53 PM »
SYS1 height is not the same as the saw bed height on the original Kapex.   
But with the feet of the systainer (total of 112mm) close enough to the 110mm of the Kapex when the systainer is sitting 2+m away from it.

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 32
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 12:21 PM »
I like almost everything about these new boxes, other than the fact that some wally forgot about the heights matching.

It's been part of the sales pitch for Festol boxes for twenty or more years and I'm utterly stunned that they allowed these out the factory without that feature.

There must be some reason that explains it and I'm missing it. To me it just seems like they were so close but dropped the ball at the end.
Maybe they researched and discovered only a small percentage of customers relied on the matching height combinations.

Offline tazcubed

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2019, 01:47 PM »
I wish one of these storage manufacturers would make something that's closer to 24"/610mm wide on the inside. I've got a few tools that are close that length that I wish I could find a storage solution for.

Offline Svar

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2019, 01:58 PM »
Maybe they researched and discovered only a small percentage of customers relied on the matching height combinations.
Quite likely. I, for example, don't care for stacking height. I'd rather bring sawhorses (or adjustable height roller stand) than fumble through systainers constructing a tower and then discovering that I need a tool from the bottom one. All toolboxes need to be easily accessible at all times.

Possibly they studied average tools dimensions (for example, all track saws are ~ 220 mm tall) and optimized box heights that way in lieu of matching boxes with each other.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 02:53 PM by Svar »

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 549
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2019, 02:46 PM »
Maybe they researched and discovered only a small percentage of customers relied on the matching height combinations.

Possible, I just like it because they fit into my toolsafe well with various combinations being the same height so I can store my mitresaw on to of them but still securely in the toolsafe.

Its a shame because the other features of the boxes are good.

Offline Spandex

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2019, 10:04 AM »
Some examples of European pricing here:

https://www.sys-classic.de/TANOS-systainer-The-third-Generation:::678.html

Obviously this is for non-Festool versions, and not everything listed has a price yet, so I assume the different products will trickle out over the next few months.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 477
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2019, 06:15 PM »
Insane.... that's nearly double. If that is gonna trickly down to every Festool tool in Systainer I think it's the biggest boost to L-boxx'es in a long time...

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2019, 04:55 AM »
It is indeed insane asking these prices but, what’s probably more insane is, many people pay the prices.
As much as I like Systainers, all said and done, they’re plastic cases, the price doesn’t reflect this though.
I know they don’t have T locs but, the Makita equivalent are around a thirds of the price of Festool?

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 549
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2019, 06:38 AM »
Insane.... that's nearly double. If that is gonna trickly down to every Festool tool in Systainer I think it's the biggest boost to L-boxx'es in a long time...

I tried L-box's a while ago, good size and made of stronger plastic than Systainers.
Problem is the way they join together is bleedin orrible. You can't put one on top of another without it locking so a few inside my toolsafe weree a nightmare. I had to leave space either side of them to unlock them.
In the end I gave them away and was glad to be rid of them.

I wouldn't complain if systainers were glass reenforced and a bit thicker though.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2019, 06:45 AM »
SYS1 height is not the same as the saw bed height on the original Kapex.   
But with the feet of the systainer (total of 112mm) close enough to the 110mm of the Kapex when the systainer is sitting 2+m away from it.

"close enough", since when has Festool been about close enough? That's the other guys motto. :-)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 07:04 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Gregor

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2019, 08:45 AM »
SYS1 height is not the same as the saw bed height on the original Kapex.   
But with the feet of the systainer (total of 112mm) close enough to the 110mm of the Kapex when the systainer is sitting 2+m away from it.

"close enough", since when has Festool been about close enough? That's the other guys motto. :-)
You have a point.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 135
Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2019, 09:41 AM »
Quote
Maybe they researched and discovered only a small percentage of customers relied on the matching height combinations.

I seriously doubt it.  At least not the general, end using customer. 

Did anyone here get asked about this?   How about the on the instagram or facebook outlets ?

Offline Spandex

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2019, 06:05 PM »
I’m not sure people on here are that representative. Forums tend to be populated by the serious fans who are into every detail, but most people buying these tools just see them as exactly that - a tool. They have tools from loads of different brands and don’t turn up on site with everything stacked in systainers.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2019, 08:17 PM »
Well for me one of the big advantages of the Systainer was it was modular. If that is out the window then I don't know what I'll do, look for tools without Systainers, save some money I guess, and buy used T-locs. I am having trouble finding value in almost all the changes the Sys³ has brought about.

I do like the integrated handle on the front of the Sys³ though. I bought one of the add-on front handles and it does hang out the front as Seth mentioned. I ended taking it off as I kept hitting it with my leg when it was stored on the shelf under the bench.

It seems that the slot on each side where you could place a label is gone. So if your boxes are stuffed in a slot somewhere and you can only see the side it will be difficult to know what's in which Systainer. Yes, there are other ways to label the Systainer but that was professional looking and easy to change out if the contents changed.

The Systainer is probably the biggest markup item in a tool kit I'd bet. When you boil it down there's what like $2 worth of plastic and manufacturing in the thing. Why upset the apple cart and kill that golden goose... I don't get it. Yes, not many if any will choose not buy Festool because of the change in Systainers. And anyone new to Festool who is not vested in the old style Systainer will care nor feel the pain. Only those who have been there for years will be affected.

I guess the same happened when the T-loc came into being. My first Festool (RO125) was in the old classic style Systainer, everything after that has been T-loc and I now have over a dozen. Storage in my shop is sized around them, and the new sizes will not mix well with the old when it comes to my shelf spacing.



« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 05:44 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline thudchkr

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2019, 09:32 PM »
Insane.... that's nearly double. If that is gonna trickly down to every Festool tool in Systainer I think it's the biggest boost to L-boxx'es in a long time...

I tried L-box's a while ago, good size and made of stronger plastic than Systainers.
Problem is the way they join together is bleedin orrible. You can't put one on top of another without it locking so a few inside my toolsafe weree a nightmare. I had to leave space either side of them to unlock them.
In the end I gave them away and was glad to be rid of them.


When I got my L-BOXXs they came with installed clips that would keep them from locking to each other.  Still have a bunch of them as I prefer to be able to  connect them.  Problem, as you say, is they tend to connect when placed atop each other.  Especially when you'd prefer they didn't.

I like the latches on the L-BOXX better than those on the classic systainer, but prefer the T-Loc over the L-BOXX latch.  Currently am using Systainers, both classic and T-Loc, L-BOXXs as well as a few boxes from Milwaukee and Dewalt.  I think they all have their own little area of excellence where that specific box is best for the task.
Clint

TSC 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, RAS 115, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline Coen

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Re: The new version of systainers looks pretty awesome!
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2019, 07:30 AM »
I doubt though the relative price increase is that much. I think those prices are just early  adaopter prices...

A Systainer is definitely way more than $2 to produce