Author Topic: SYSTAINER³ available from September  (Read 14126 times)

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Offline Encoded6

  • Posts: 1
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2019, 12:21 PM »
The Tanos.de website now lists October 2019 as the availability date for the new systainers.

I called Festool USA and the customer service rep was aware of the new systainer generation but was not available of the release date in the USA (in other words, stated the release date on the Tanos website is for Europe only).

Meanwhile I was about to switch all my tools over to the systainer system... but glad I saw this post! Maybe it's good I wait a little, since I've spent way too much lately on tools  [tongue].

Now the question is - when they make the switch, will the 2nd gen sys be priced a large discount? was this done for Gen 1 (I guess this was around 2012)?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2019, 03:29 AM »
Hi and welcome, I guess it will go one way or the other, either the current version will get sold off at discount prices to make way for the new or, the current ones will hold their price, and possibly rise in price depending on the seller, due to short supply?

I actually like the current ones, and I'm not over keen from what I've learned about the new ones. I certainly won't be rushing out to buy any, in fact recently I've bought a few of the current version at sensible prices, or at closer to what I think a plastic case should cost.

I think for anybody that's thinking of racking out a vehicle or workshop, and buying any Festool power tools in quantity, it might be good to hold fire. As soon the tools will come in the new Systainers, and if you've already racked a system, there could be some crossover issues.
Or build racks etc, to take the new cases, and wait for them to start appearing.

Offline Aniline_Kohlrabi

  • Posts: 4
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2019, 11:47 PM »
I have about 20+ generic tanos t-loc systainers. I’m OK with missing out on the integrated slide feature, but I do like the front handles.

I am still kind of ticked off about the height discrepancy.

What I am really curious about is the new parts organizer. If it is competitive in price and function with the Sortimo T-Boxx, I may buy into it. I never used any of Tanos or Festool’s rather small, mismatched, and higher-priced assortment of small parts storage solutions. The colored bins don’t even fit in the recesses of the sortainers!

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2019, 08:50 AM »
FWIW, I posted on the Tanos Facebook page about the Systainer³ to see if they would answer if the T-LOC was being discontinued. Their answer was that it would not be discontinued.

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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2019, 10:18 PM »
FWIW, I posted on the Tanos Facebook page about the Systainer³ to see if they would answer if the T-LOC was being discontinued. Their answer was that it would not be discontinued.

(Attachment Link)

But they don't say that.    They say they will be continued, which is what manufactures do all the time when new model comes out.  The old model dies off before long though.  Just like pickups with heritage/classic edition they make for a year or 2 after the new model comes out to sell cheap. 

In the end consumers figured this out years ago and know unless a company gives clear direction to their plans, their "continuation" statements just me "for the moment".

I really do hope they do keep the T-locs around.  But if this was the situation why would they call these systainer 3.   It's a 3rd gen product called 3.  If these were van rack only, it would have made more sense to call them Systainer R (rack), and keep systainer 3 for the replacement for T-locs  at some point.  But the name they gave them implies replacement.

Apple wouldn't have  iPhone, iPhone 2, iPhone 3, iPhone 4, etc   where iPhone 5 was a desktop computer and iPhone 6 is a phone again. If it was similar and lives in parallel, say a really large iPhone like thing that doesn't replace the iPhone you would call it something like iPad.

Again, love to be wrong, but I don't think anyone is going for the idea that they aren't replacing the T-locs. Might take years

Offline Euclid

  • Posts: 185
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2019, 03:00 AM »
Call me cynical, but I can't help wondering if the question was misinterpreted (unintentionally or otherwise), with the response signifiying that T-Loc - the closure mechanism - will continue. After all, the new Gen 3 series are still 'T-Loc' aren't they?

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 182
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2019, 04:21 AM »
What I am really curious about is the new parts organizer. If it is competitive in price and function with the Sortimo T-Boxx, I may buy into it. I never used any of Tanos or Festool’s rather small, mismatched, and higher-priced assortment of small parts storage solutions. The colored bins don’t even fit in the recesses of the sortainers!

Agree. I really like the Sortimo T-Boxx but their distribution in the States is very poor. If it's priced competitively (less than the $70 T-Boxx but a premium over the DeWalt and Makita storage options) I could see gravitating to it.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 117
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2019, 11:10 AM »
FWIW, I posted on the Tanos Facebook page about the Systainer³ to see if they would answer if the T-LOC was being discontinued. Their answer was that it would not be discontinued.

(Attachment Link)

Well, that response was either misleading, lost in translation, or very carefully worded to be pacifying because their micro site states they are going to "convert all products to systainer3"

Now, this also, could be lost in translation.  I rather suspect that t-loc as we now know it in the U.S. is going away to be replaced with Systainer3. It will take its place along side Classic in the archives.

Online Spandex

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2019, 05:15 PM »
Quote from: xedos link=topic=59953.msg589788#msg589788
Well, that response was either misleading, lost in translation, or very carefully worded to be pacifying because their micro site states they are going to "convert all products to systainer3"
I thought the statement about ‘converting all products’ referred to Festool moving over to the systainer3 for all their products. I.e. eventually all their tools will come in the new systainer.

Offline Cheese

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2019, 05:51 PM »
I thought the statement about ‘converting all products’ referred to Festool moving over to the systainer3 for all their products. I.e. eventually all their tools will come in the new systainer.

You are correct...it was Festool stating that they would be moving their product into Systainer³ boxes.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2019, 11:23 PM »
I thought the statement about ‘converting all products’ referred to Festool moving over to the systainer3 for all their products. I.e. eventually all their tools will come in the new systainer.

You are correct...it was Festool stating that they would be moving their product into Systainer³ boxes.

Yeah, but it's all intertwined in the end.  What would be the reason to change everything over?  That said, they have things that really have nothing to do with van racks, like the cyclone, and the sys-vac and so forth. Those take a lot more effort to change.

It's hard to see t-loc's survive. To do that they would have to maintain runs for both types. Swapping around dies in the molding machine is no simple thing.  Having now to do this for twice as much stuff is less than ideal unless they add a whole new line in parallel, but at the same time the previous line would be making less because of the new cases.   

It's just hard to see the t-loc's  "Systainer 2" staying around, no different than anything else.   It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the new ones having de-provements and not much in the way of improvements.

I do think making a systainer line more purpose built for racks/vans is a good idea, I'm just not so keen on that being forced on everything.  Front handles serve little purpose, loss of labels on the sides is no good.

Offline Cheese

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2019, 02:17 AM »
Yeah, but it's all intertwined in the end.  What would be the reason to change everything over?  That said, they have things that really have nothing to do with van racks, like the cyclone, and the sys-vac and so forth. Those take a lot more effort to change.

It's hard to see t-loc's survive. To do that they would have to maintain runs for both types. Swapping around dies in the molding machine is no simple thing.  Having now to do this for twice as much stuff is less than ideal unless they add a whole new line in parallel, but at the same time the previous line would be making less because of the new cases.   

It's just hard to see the t-loc's  "Systainer 2" staying around, no different than anything else.   It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the new ones having de-provements and not much in the way of improvements.

I do think making a systainer line more purpose built for racks/vans is a good idea, I'm just not so keen on that being forced on everything.  Front handles serve little purpose, loss of labels on the sides is no good.

I agree with you 100%...I think Festool switching over to the 3rd generation Systainer will be a death knell for the 2nd generation version as Festool is without a doubt, the largest purchaser of the 2nd generation Systainer.

So get ready folks for some really weird stacking heights and a lot more amped up discussions on the FOG. [popcorn]

Offline Cheese

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2019, 09:58 AM »
Well, I contacted Tanos a few days ago and asked them if the T-loc was going to be discontinued and replaced with the Systainer³. Here's the reply:

Thanks for your request.
 
At the moment we will still keep the 2nd Generation systainer® (systainer® T-Loc) and they are compatible with the 3rd Generation.
 
In the future 2nd Generation will be replaced but there is no date yet for replacement. We will definitely still offer them in 2020.
 
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best Regards
TANOS GmbH

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2019, 12:08 PM »
Well, I contacted Tanos a few days ago and asked them if the T-loc was going to be discontinued and replaced with the Systainer³. Here's the reply:

Thanks for your request.
 
At the moment we will still keep the 2nd Generation systainer® (systainer® T-Loc) and they are compatible with the 3rd Generation.
 
In the future 2nd Generation will be replaced but there is no date yet for replacement. We will definitely still offer them in 2020.
 
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best Regards
TANOS GmbH


How long is “the moment”?

They’ll be offered “in 2020” so “the moment” is at least 4 months more.

Offline xedos

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2019, 07:29 PM »
Well, I contacted Tanos a few days ago and asked them if the T-loc was going to be discontinued and replaced with the Systainer³. Here's the reply:

Thanks for your request.
 
At the moment we will still keep the 2nd Generation systainer® (systainer® T-Loc) and they are compatible with the 3rd Generation.
 
In the future 2nd Generation will be replaced but there is no date yet for replacement. We will definitely still offer them in 2020.
 
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best Regards
TANOS GmbH


Seems to me to be at odds with with what their own site says.  Perhaps it's translation, but wouldn't it be more consistent (and accurate) to say "yes, we ARE switching to Gen3 in 2020 and t-loc will be in production until that point. After that it will no longer be produced for sale"

Given that the new CT mini/midi are now taller than those they're replacing ; it appears Tanos/Festool have been contemplating this switch for some time.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 07:33 PM by xedos »

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2019, 10:17 PM »
Folks are over thinking this.   They don't know when because they don't know how long it will take inventory to run out. And gauging that gets hard because retailers will be wondering if they want to place an order for the systainer 2's for fear of being stuck with them.  So they can't project a burn rate of the systainer 2's because it won't match the historical tend.  So convergence on when the inventory runs out, when stores run out and what the calendar says can't be predicted.

Add to this companies that leverage the current systainers.  Think of all the companies that need to re-tool their products (like those who make Air Compressors in systainers).  They have to figure out what to do.  Look at say Mafell, the lid is custom on their systainers. They now have to figure out what they are going to do and the switch over.  Plus it means Tanos has to go cut tooling for all the companies they make special parts for all at the same time, not over a period of time like they have done during systainer 2 lifetime.  But even before that, all those companies have to sign on to the change, or they might say decide to switch to someone else.  Maybe those companies are currently asking to get the old model continued.

Sure the new ones are compatible, but that doesn't mean other companies who use them are going to go "oh, ok, no problem".  This is going to cost them money, it's going to cause those companies to have to discontinue products, re-tool, etc.

I'm concerned some companies will use this as a good reason to base off a different container, which then hoses those who are in systainer land. 

Offline Cheese

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2019, 10:47 PM »

Seems to me to be at odds with with what their own site says.  Perhaps it's translation, but wouldn't it be more consistent (and accurate) to say "yes, we ARE switching to Gen3 in 2020 and t-loc will be in production until that point. After that it will no longer be produced for sale"

Given that the new CT mini/midi are now taller than those they're replacing ; it appears Tanos/Festool have been contemplating this switch for some time.

Ya it is what it is...I'm just repeating words directly from the horse's mouth. Tanos will do what they do..they're German, and they're rogue, Festool will gradually transition their products to be placed in Systainer³ containers...they're German, and they're also rogue, and life will then go on.

I will continue to refinish lumber/windows/doors outside on the patio and life will be good...now about that Norton...and that Bultaco...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 09:36 AM by Cheese »

Online Spandex

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2019, 09:48 AM »
I don't really get the drama around this.

The only real issue seems to be the stack height, and if you are one of the people who care about that (and that is only a certain group of people) then carry on buying T-Locs until they're not available from Tanos/Festool, then start buying them from eBay (because for every person who wants to stick to T-Loc, there will be many more people who want to sell old T-Locs so they can move to Systainer³ - Same thing happened with the Classic Systainer).

For everyone else, why does it matter if you have a mixture of T-Loc and Systainer³? I've moved loads of my tools to T-Loc and have cabinets full of SYS-AZ drawers, but I have no interest in stack heights so the change to Systainer³ will have no impact on me at all.

As for how long it will take to migrate over... put it like this, Tanos STILL has the Classic line on their website, and you can still buy them new from some European retailers. The idea that the original T-Loc will be phased out some time in 2020 is fanciful.

Offline xedos

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2019, 10:26 AM »
I don't really get the drama around this.

Seems more like a healthy discussion to me.  I think it's better to get the customer's displeasure out in the open early instead of ranting after the fact.  At that point there is no going back.


For everyone else, why does it matter if you have a mixture of T-Loc and Systainer³? I've moved loads of my tools to T-Loc and have cabinets full of SYS-AZ drawers, but I have no interest in stack heights so the change to Systainer³ will have no impact on me at all.

That's you.  Many of us have invested in custom mobile solutions that rely on the current heights to function well.  Sure, some could be changed; but at what cost ? I suspect it's more people than they think are affected by the height change.   I'm also guessing that practically no-one in the USA is going to go for the BOTT racking system.  Tanos already has a racking system and Sortimo does too.  I'll wager nobody has ever seen a van installation of one of these systems out in the wild. 

As for how long it will take to migrate over... put it like this, Tanos STILL has the Classic line on their website, and you can still buy them new from some European retailers. The idea that the original T-Loc will be phased out some time in 2020 is fanciful.

While technically correct, realistically speaking they do not offer "classic systainers" .  There are the MAXI and the older 4/6/12 SORTAINERS which were never updated to t-loc and still available.  There's also the vac pumps that come in the modified "classic" but I can't get a classic SYS1 or SYS5 to round out a collection.   And while older, dead stock might be a great find for a collector, unsupported products don't have much use for the daily user going forward.  So for all practical purposes, "classic" has been discontinued.

Online Spandex

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2019, 02:36 PM »
Seems more like a healthy discussion to me.  I think it's better to get the customer's displeasure out in the open early instead of ranting after the fact.  At that point there is no going back.
There’s already no going back. Tanos aren’t going to change anything about these products based on this discussion. The drama I’m referring to is people talking like their entire T-Loc collection is now somehow obsolete.
That's you.  Many of us have invested in custom mobile solutions that rely on the current heights to function well.  Sure, some could be changed; but at what cost ? I suspect it's more people than they think are affected by the height change.   I'm also guessing that practically no-one in the USA is going to go for the BOTT racking system.  Tanos already has a racking system and Sortimo does too.  I'll wager nobody has ever seen a van installation of one of these systems out in the wild.
Well, yes. I covered that in the bit of my post you cut out. There will be people who care about stack height and they will be able to buy T-Locs either new or used for many years to come.
While technically correct, realistically speaking they do not offer "classic systainers" .  There are the MAXI and the older 4/6/12 SORTAINERS which were never updated to t-loc and still available.  There's also the vac pumps that come in the modified "classic" but I can't get a classic SYS1 or SYS5 to round out a collection.   And while older, dead stock might be a great find for a collector, unsupported products don't have much use for the daily user going forward.  So for all practical purposes, "classic" has been discontinued.
Classic Systainers are still all available new from retailers. Not just the maxi and sortainers. All of them. How long ago were they ‘replaced’ by T-Loc? Like I said, getting hold of T-Locs is not going to be an issue for a very very long time. People saying otherwise are exactly what I’m referring to when I talk about ‘drama’.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 117
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2019, 02:46 PM »
OK , which dealers are advertising new classic systainers for sale ?

These guys are one of the largest most complete dealers I know of anywhere in the world and they don't carry any classic I-V.

https://www.kofferfunshop.de/en/systainer/systainer.html


Offline Svar

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2019, 03:39 PM »
I don't really get the drama around this.
The only real issue seems to be the stack height, and if you are one of the people who care about that (and that is only a certain group of people) then carry on buying T-Locs until they're not available from Tanos/Festool, then start buying them from eBay (because for every person who wants to stick to T-Loc, there will be many more people who want to sell old T-Locs so they can move to Systainer³ - Same thing happened with the Classic Systainer).
For everyone else, why does it matter if you have a mixture of T-Loc and Systainer³? I've moved loads of my tools to T-Loc and have cabinets full of SYS-AZ drawers, but I have no interest in stack heights so the change to Systainer³ will have no impact on me at all.
As for how long it will take to migrate over... put it like this, Tanos STILL has the Classic line on their website, and you can still buy them new from some European retailers. The idea that the original T-Loc will be phased out some time in 2020 is fanciful.
I agree on all points.
I also think front handle is a big improvement if you store your systainers on shelves, particularly high above. That was a major drawback of standard t-loc comparing to l-boxx.
Also, integrated side slot simplifies racking and saves money and space.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 159
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2019, 03:53 PM »
The front handle and side slots are a good idea.  Having a wider variety of larger footprint systainers is a good change.

The height change and removal of card labeling slots are a step backwards.  Also, AFAIK there are no drawer/combi versions available.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 117
Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2019, 04:29 PM »
Great resource; have you ordered from him before ?


Front handle has been avaialbe for t-loc for some time as an accessory.  Not as elegant, but I don't have to have it or pay for it if I can't use or don't want it.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-auxillary-handle.html?SID=e789dq5q0buroujuj2g36cnrv5

-or-

https://www.amazon.com/Festool-497856-Auxiliary-Handle-Systainer/dp/B003ZX7UJS


« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 04:32 PM by xedos »

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2019, 12:52 AM »
Some place selling some old thing someplace doesn't mean a thing to anyone.  Unless a manufacture is making them new currently, it's dead, that's all that matters in that regard. You don't do anything in life where you need to continue to procure something and they are no longer made.

I don't most people care so much about the new models or changes being made, everyone understands revisions,  and the sad part here is they didn't change very much. But the way Tanos has got systainers into the ecosystem of many companies and used in many different ways a change can cause a large issue.  If it means that products that exist today will no longer exist in the future because of this change, that is a big issue.  If it means some companies decide to base their products of non-systainer options, that's a problem.

I don't think the change would have been much of a  concern to folks if the heights didn't change and the side card slots stayed.  The changes were made for Van racking, which is fine if it was a parallel line, but since it comes at a break in compatibility with the old, it's bad.   Yes most of what happens with the boxes is compatible, much like how T-loc's are largely compatibly with Classics, but folks are generally not going to want a mix. 

If the new ones added a front handle, and added side rail features, but everything else stay'd the same, I doubt much of anyone would have an issue.  Sure they would look a bit different, but that's a minor concern.

This is always going to be an issue when people spend a lot of money on and build around a proprietary product.  I think Tanos could have planned the heights of systainers originally much better, why they now changed it is confusing.  They could have made heights that fit in with the old ones (half sizes).

Offline Svar

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2019, 01:34 AM »
Some place selling some old thing someplace doesn't mean a thing to anyone.  Unless a manufacture is making them new currently, it's dead, that's all that matters in that regard.
The point made earlier was that classic systainers are still easily available from a number of retailers some 10 years after t-loc introduction. Tanos is still making them now.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 11:14 AM by Svar »

Online Spandex

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Re: SYSTAINER³ available from September
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2019, 03:04 AM »
Exactly. People are acting like having a large ‘investment’ in T-Loc is suddenly a huge issue, when clearly it’s not.

If anyone out there needs stack heights to remain the same, their current T-Loc collecting isn’t going to suddenly explode, and any new tools they buy can easily be moved to T-Loc if needed (there will be people willing to swap if someone doesn’t want to buy new, just as there are now with Classic and T-Loc).

Or, you just swap your new tool into a T-Loc you already own, but don’t need to take on site and use in certain height stacks.

Everything else about the new Systainers is compatible, so having a mixture will have absolutely zero effect on you as long as you manage the stacking height issue. If having non-matching systainers DOES affect you, that’s something you need to discuss with a psychologist, not Tanos ;)

And finally, you do realise that the vast majority of people will already have a random mix of T-Loc, classic systainer, L-Boxx, Toughbox, whatever? Most people think having a collection of matching systainers is a bit mad. Being nerdy and passionate about something is fine, but you need to understand that most people aren’t. This change is going to have absolutely no negative impact on Tanos ability to sell systainers to other brands - in fact, it should help. Van racking is pretty common in Europe, but the only Systainer racks I’ve seen have been custom made ones posted on here. But Sortimo is a relatively common sight when you walk past an open van. Utility companies kit out their vans in bulk with it. Tanos currently can’t even begin to compete with Sortimo, but clearly they want to.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:07 AM by Spandex »