Author Topic: Sys3 M vs Sys L Systainer System (Read 3744 times)

dougd1 · « **on:** January 08, 2022, 10:34 PM »

I am trying to figure out the differences between Sys3 M, Sys3L, and Sortainer boxes. It looks like the Sys3L boxes are slightly wider than Sys3 M boxes. If so, can you stack them together or are they incompatible in that way? It looks like the Sortainer boxes are the same width as the Sys3 M boxes, but both are not as wide than the Sys3 L boxes. Does that mean the Sortainer boxes are not compatible with the Sys3 L boxes?

Not sure what the rationale is for the Sys3 L boxes. I have not been able to find any information on why these storage boxes are wider than the Sys3 M boxes. If I was to buy Sys3 boxes, which ones should I standardize on?

Are Systainer Rails compatible with the Sys3 M and Sys3 L containers? The rails seem to have guides on them that fit into slots on the containers, but I do not see these corresponding slots on the Sys3 M or Sys3 L containers or on the Systainer case I have for my Festool OF 1400 router. Although the festool site says these rails are compatible, it is hard to see how they will work with Sys3 M, Sys3 L and Sortainer boxes.

Any help appreciated.

Doug

squall_line · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2022, 11:15 PM »

The OF1400 doesn't yet come in a Sys³M, it comes in a T-Loc Systainer, which is the 2nd generation. The T-Loc generation is not compatible with the rails for the new 3rd Generation models.

The older Sortainers are based on the Classic generation of Systainer and can only attach underneath newer models. The Sortainer Sys 4 TL-Sort/3 is the only model that can attach on top or bottom of a T-Loc or 3rd Generation model because of the latch on the top.

The Sys³L is meant for larger tools or capacity. For example, a Shinex polisher, which comes in a cardboard box, needs a Sys³L to store comfortably. There is also an XL which is exactly twice the width of the Sys³M, and can stack two M's side-by-side.

There are a bunch of overview videos on YouTube under Festool USA's channel; search for "Sys3 M" or "Sys3 L" overview with FestoolUSA as the channel.

Here's a small overview of the M, L, and XXL on the Sys Cart:

dougd1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2022, 12:24 AM »

Thanks, that has cleared up a lot of my questions. Will continue to search the Festool live channel for more info.

Doug

ghhsolutions · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2022, 04:12 AM »

I wouldn't limit your storage options by "standardising" on M or L. I have a mix of the two depending on what I need to store and they all play together nicely. Note that the older Sortainers cannot connect to the bottom of a Sys3L, only a Sys3M (not that it is something I have ever wanted to do). The only downside is that if you are storing them on shelves you need two widths, and the Sys3L won't fit in a SYS-AZ. Also the L don't fit directly on top of a CT extractor without an intermediate M

I find the Sys3 Organizer much more useful in the L size and also the SYS Tool Box L is also handy.

Gary

Coen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2022, 09:00 AM »

Quote from: squall_line on January 08, 2022, 11:15 PM

For example, a Shinex polisher, which comes in a cardboard box, needs a Sys3L to store comfortably.

Huh what? You can buy it in Systainer Maxi just as well.

Cheese · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2022, 11:10 AM »

Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 09:00 AM

Huh what? You can buy it in Systainer Maxi just as well.

Not in the US...

...that combination is unavailable as is the individual T-Loc Midi and the original Maxi.

Coen · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM »

Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2022, 09:18 AM »

Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM

Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Weird indeed...I guess the "SYSTEM" concept isn't important in North America.

However, this is directly from the NA website "This system concept is rounded off by our innovative SYSTAINER toolboxes."

Coen · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2022, 02:18 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 10, 2022, 09:18 AM

Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM
Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Weird indeed...I guess the "SYSTEM" concept isn't important in North America.

However, this is directly from the NA website "This system concept is rounded off by our innovative SYSTAINER toolboxes."

Well, the higher Systainer Maxi is already *gone* from the Festool website. That is the 210 mm high version, #492582

New Planex is sold in Sys XL 337.. that is 80 Liters (outside square 'box') The previous one in Systainer Maxi... 50 Liters. I'm not exactly sure what you gain for that extra 30L space. The Systainer Maxi seems kinda easier to carry..

SRSemenza · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2022, 06:20 PM »

The Maxi doesn't really mate well for stacking with other Systainers. Yes, two can be latched on top but the arrangement leaves a lot to be desired. I would much prefer the XXL even if larger volume because it plays well with others. As well as the carts and vacuums.

Seth

Lincoln · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2022, 06:33 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 10, 2022, 09:18 AM

Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM
Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Weird indeed...I guess the "SYSTEM" concept isn't important in North America.

However, this is directly from the NA website "This system concept is rounded off by our innovative SYSTAINER toolboxes."

I feel your pain - down here in Aus, we have the new systainers but the mounting rails aren't available, with no plans to bring them here. Ridiculous.

MaineShop · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2022, 08:45 AM »

Why in the world would they give you the new systainers but not the rails, it is the best part about the new systainers. The real tragedy is that the new rails take a different cabinet width then the sys-az drawers, not by much, like 10mm. What a wasted opportunity. Now with every bench or rack you have to commit to one or the other not both. Willing to bet they sell a ton more 10 dollar rails instead of 50 dollars drawers. Boneheaded.

mino · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2022, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: MaineShop on January 18, 2022, 08:45 AM

Why in the world would they give you the new systainers but not the rails, it is the best part about the new systainers. The real tragedy is that the new rails take a different cabinet width then the sys-az drawers, not by much, like 10mm. What a wasted opportunity. Now with every bench or rack you have to commit to one or the other not both. Willing to bet they sell a ton more 10 dollar rails instead of 50 dollars drawers. Boneheaded.

I do not think the different widths are really an issue. For universal shop use one can just use plywood shims. I can see it being practical where the "lower" locations would use SYS-AZ for direct access while higher up the stack opening the systainer in place is not practical so just shimmed rails will be used. Besides, the rails should be reasonably easy to 3D-print in a wider iteration.

The only real issue with SYS3's is the breakage of the heights system as that makes it a no-cigar for mobile work use cases.

Coen · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2022, 11:27 AM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 17, 2022, 06:20 PM

The Maxi doesn't really mate well for stacking with other Systainers. Yes, two can be latched on top but the arrangement leaves a lot to be desired. I would much prefer the XL even if larger volume because it plays well with others. As well as the carts and vacuums.

Seth

Well, as if anyone is gonna stack on top of an XL-Sys. Well, maybe... because it's way harder to carry around. Systainer Maxi carried by handle gives 210mm wide box, with handle only 105mm outward. XL-Systainer gives 300mm box with handle 150mm outward. While also being 800mm long instead of 600. And I still suspect the Maxi is way sturdier.

But let's look at moving it along; is the XL-Sys rackable? No. So... let it sit; it takes 0.3x0.8 = 0.24 m², while the Systainer Maxi is just put on it's side with the handle facing up... 0.6x0.21 = 0.126, almost half the footprint.

With the 30L extra you would expect them to have a somewhat better thought-out storage for 225mm paper included in the XL-Sys. But nope

Coen · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2022, 11:33 AM »

Quote from: Lincoln on January 17, 2022, 06:33 PM

Quote from: Cheese on January 10, 2022, 09:18 AM
Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM
Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Weird indeed...I guess the "SYSTEM" concept isn't important in North America.

However, this is directly from the NA website "This system concept is rounded off by our innovative SYSTAINER toolboxes."

I feel your pain - down here in Aus, we have the new systainers but the mounting rails aren't available, with no plans to bring them here. Ridiculous.

Haha, behave like a prison, get treated as a prison. No rails

I mean; you still have the freedom to just import them I hope? And if so; do the rails have to stay locked up for a week upon arrival?

SRSemenza · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2022, 01:17 PM »

Quote from: Coen on January 18, 2022, 11:27 AM

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 17, 2022, 06:20 PM
The Maxi doesn't really mate well for stacking with other Systainers. Yes, two can be latched on top but the arrangement leaves a lot to be desired. I would much prefer the XL even if larger volume because it plays well with others. As well as the carts and vacuums.

Seth

Well, as if anyone is gonna stack on top of an XL-Sys. Well, maybe... because it's way harder to carry around. Systainer Maxi carried by handle gives 210mm wide box, with handle only 105mm outward. XL-Systainer gives 300mm box with handle 150mm outward. While also being 800mm long instead of 600. And I still suspect the Maxi is way sturdier.

But let's look at moving it along; is the XL-Sys rackable? No. So... let it sit; it takes 0.3x0.8 = 0.24 m², while the Systainer Maxi is just put on it's side with the handle facing up... 0.6x0.21 = 0.126, almost half the footprint.

With the 30L extra you would expect them to have a somewhat better thought-out storage for 225mm paper included in the XL-Sys. But nope

Not sure why it is soooooo difficult to carry an XXL

? As far as stacking ? Absolutely, on carts and such.

As always different uses, situations, preferences.

Maybe the Maxi is better for someone's use in their situation. But there is really no question that the XXL works better with other systainers than the Maxi.

Seth

Coen · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2022, 01:35 PM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 18, 2022, 01:17 PM

Not sure why it is soooooo difficult to carry an XL ? As far as stacking ? Absolutely, on carts and such.

Well easy. I can carry a 210mm wide Maxi without having to use arm muscles to prevent it from banging / sliding against the sides of my pants. But a 300mm wide Systainer I have to slightly force outward if I don't want that. In small hallways, on the bicycle, when passing doors, staircases, trains, etc. it's also easier. That's one of the reasons I have a Brompton and not a Dahon folding bike

; space, space, space.

And that's also why L-boxxes, when stacked, are even worse than Systainers. But at the very least their front handle doesn't stick out from the stack when stacked like the Sys³ 112's handle.

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 18, 2022, 01:17 PM

As always different uses, situations, preferences.

Maybe the Maxi is better for someone's use in their situation. But there is really no question that the XL works better with other systainers than the Maxi.

Seth

Yes, the Maxi was definitely more it's own system. But the question then is how much should be sacrificed for 'the system'. And that's why I make such a big stink about the stupid heights of the Sys³; completely wrecking the nice 'different boxes, equal stack height' of the previous Systainer T-Loc and Systainer Classic. And yes, I do use that.

Lincoln · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2022, 03:10 PM »

Quote from: Coen on January 18, 2022, 11:33 AM

Quote from: Lincoln on January 17, 2022, 06:33 PM
Quote from: Cheese on January 10, 2022, 09:18 AM
Quote from: Coen on January 09, 2022, 03:54 PM
Ha, so even a simple box is NAINA!? Weirddd

Weird indeed...I guess the "SYSTEM" concept isn't important in North America.

However, this is directly from the NA website "This system concept is rounded off by our innovative SYSTAINER toolboxes."

I feel your pain - down here in Aus, we have the new systainers but the mounting rails aren't available, with no plans to bring them here. Ridiculous.

Haha, behave like a prison, get treated as a prison. No rails

I mean; you still have the freedom to just import them I hope? And if so; do the rails have to stay locked up for a week upon arrival?

No, cannot import them - Festool don't allow dealers from other countries to sell to the Aus market.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2022, 05:31 PM »

Quote from: Coen on January 18, 2022, 01:35 PM

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 18, 2022, 01:17 PM

Not sure why it is soooooo difficult to carry an XL ? As far as stacking ? Absolutely, on carts and such.

Well easy. I can carry a 210mm wide Maxi without having to use arm muscles to prevent it from banging / sliding against the sides of my pants. But a 300mm wide Systainer I have to slightly force outward if I don't want that. In small hallways, on the bicycle, when passing doors, staircases, trains, etc. it's also easier. That's one of the reasons I have a Brompton and not a Dahon folding bike ; space, space, space.

And that's also why L-boxxes, when stacked, are even worse than Systainers. But at the very least their front handle doesn't stick out from the stack when stacked like the Sys³ 112's handle.

Quote from: SRSemenza on January 18, 2022, 01:17 PM
As always different uses, situations, preferences.

Maybe the Maxi is better for someone's use in their situation. But there is really no question that the XL works better with other systainers than the Maxi.

Seth

Yes, the Maxi was definitely more it's own system. But the question then is how much should be sacrificed for 'the system'. And that's why I make such a big stink about the stupid heights of the Sys³; completely wrecking the nice 'different boxes, equal stack height' of the previous Systainer T-Loc and Systainer Classic. And yes, I do use that.

I get your reasoning, I just don't find the XXL much harder to carry that it is worth giving up the pluses of the XXL. I am sure for your situation the Maxi makes sense. For general as opposed to specific situations I would always take the XXL.

Seth

ggc · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2022, 08:25 PM »

[/quote]

No, cannot import them - Festool don't allow dealers from other countries to sell to the Aus market.
[/quote]

Festool might not allow it, but Tanos will. There's no official Australian distributor, but they have sold large orders to individuals in the past. Or try one of the Tanos resellers like https://www.kofferundschaum.de/ in Europe. Bott Australia may also be a source.

Mr_Mod · « **Reply #20 on:** January 19, 2022, 05:01 AM »

Quote from: Lincoln on January 18, 2022, 03:10 PM

No, cannot import them - Festool don't allow dealers from other countries to sell to the Aus market.

I regularly import Festool items from Europe into Australia without any problems. There are dealers who will sell and ship to you. Also you can just get the Tanos named items freely by mail

MaineShop · « **Reply #21 on:** January 19, 2022, 07:47 AM »

Quote from: mino on January 18, 2022, 10:19 AM

Quote from: MaineShop on January 18, 2022, 08:45 AM
Why in the world would they give you the new systainers but not the rails, it is the best part about the new systainers. The real tragedy is that the new rails take a different cabinet width then the sys-az drawers, not by much, like 10mm. What a wasted opportunity. Now with every bench or rack you have to commit to one or the other not both. Willing to bet they sell a ton more 10 dollar rails instead of 50 dollars drawers. Boneheaded.
I do not think the different widths are really an issue. For universal shop use one can just use plywood shims. I can see it being practical where the "lower" locations would use SYS-AZ for direct access while higher up the stack opening the systainer in place is not practical so just shimmed rails will be used. Besides, the rails should be reasonably easy to 3D-print in a wider iteration.

The only real issue with SYS3's is the breakage of the heights system as that makes it a no-cigar for mobile work use cases.

Using a 10mm shim strip is really less then optimal when you are trying to use the rails in a 32mm hole system which is the whole point of adjustable rails. And if it is better to 3d print a product myself then you just failed on selling a product, kind of the whole point of my post. The point is they had an existing product that could have dovetailed nicely with their drawer product, and instead they made it off by less then half an inch so that the two do not play nicely with each other. Can't help but see how that is gonna cannibalize your sales of the higher priced item for the lower priced item as they just made it an either or situation. Maybe it is in relation to making the rails work with BOTT or something but if that is the case they should sell rails separately that match the sys-az dimensions, in my opinion.

I just think it was poorly done engineering and that is usually the appeal of their products, if I want products I have to customize to make work, there are plenty of other brands.

Coen · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2022, 12:47 PM »

Sys³ L might be nice for Bosch GCG 18v-310 though

Somehow Sys³ L is 5mm wider than Sys T-Loc Midi