Author Topic: Easiest/Cheapest way to creat foam inserts for non Festool tools in Systainers.  (Read 5652 times)

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Offline mickmick

  • Posts: 43
Going all festool for my mobile stuff. Need to pack some non festool tools and supplies in some systainers - looking for techniques for making foam inserts?
I've seen the Kaizen stuff but that's too spendy for me. Also don't say just buy a Shaper [wink]
Whats the cost effective way that doesn't look like the dog chewed them.
“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline Peter Halle

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An alternative to look at is eva foam.  Usually you can find this as interlocking floor tiles or even camping mats or yoga mats.

Typically cheaper than Kaizen but might I haven't tried to cut with a razor knife.

I have some and may experiment cutting it with my laser (EVA is laser safe).

Foam inserts - in my experience - are not the best for maximizing storage, but are better for sorting, retrieval, and organization.

Peter

Offline Bob D.

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I've cut those interlocking foam mats with a razor knife and new blade with good results.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline rmhinden

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I also use similar foam in tile form on my workbench when using my tracksaws.   It was easy to cut it to the size of the workbench.

Offline duburban

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The Kaizen foam is 10-15 per systainer. If you find something that is actually more cost/time effective, i'd love to see it.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline TSO Products

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KAIZEN Foam pads precisely contour-cut to fit Systainer bottom and different upper layer(s) in production at TSO now.
Will be ready to ship later in March in pad thicknesses 20mm and 30mm.
Look for marking and hand-cutting tool kits for shop use on our website in March to go along with KAIZEN Foam.

Of course we'll have a package KAIZEN Foam deal to go with our TSO SkyBlue Systainer.

Look for some snapshots of TSO production KAIZEN Foam parts over the weekend

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline kbwoodworker

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I also use similar foam in tile form on my workbench when using my tracksaws.   It was easy to cut it to the size of the workbench.
That's a great idea!

Offline DeformedTree

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The Kaizen foam is 10-15 per systainer. If you find something that is actually more cost/time effective, i'd love to see it.

I still don't understand Kaizen foam.  You would think you go there and select the container type you have (say Tanos T-loc) and then they have inserts for tools you want to put in there (say Milwalkee impact driver) and there is the insert.  But all they appear to sell is just blocks of foam, just like what you can buy from Tanos or Festool for 8 bucks.  What are folks getting from them if they aren't making inserts for tools?  I wouldn't expect them to have every combo out there, but I would think they would just keep making inserts as they get the info needed to make them for tools.  So if say someone wants to put all their tools in systainers, they go there and find the correct insert for their tool, maybe some of them are a bit generic or something like that.  I don't understand saying they are more cost effective or great when they really don't make anything.  It looks like the only thing they have done as I described is for one fein tool, and one bosch drill.

Offline Cheese

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I still don't understand Kaizen foam.

Ya neither do I. It seems like radiused corners need to be generated by lasers or routers not removing square cubes. It may be better than nothing but the jury’s still out on that indictment.

Interestingly enough, just this week I re-discovered for the 4th time some of the issues involved with using foam materials for long term storage. I’ll do a show and tell on my findings. It’s not pretty. 

Offline tallgrass

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I do not like foam because it will eventually betray you. I use felt. easy to cut and glue and it holds lubricant or material of choice. You can buy it in any thickness you want. glue it up to get your thickness you want.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 464
Tallgrass - What is your source of felt? 3/4 inch material I saw was about $72 for 6 systainers of material. Making inserts with 3-D contours versus just a cut out seems like much more work than the Kaizen foam.

To others - Kaizen foam and the stuff Festool uses are very different. The Kaizen foam is much denser than the Festool foam. I have no idea how it will hold up after many years.

The brilliant concept of Kaizen foam that is very poorly realized in my opinion is the ability to peel out thin layers of material from a cut out to form a 3-D contoured cavity that fits the object snuggly. In my experience, it can be difficult to get smooth separation of the layers.

Much of the use of Kaizen foam is likely in drawers and not tool boxes so just selling sheets makes sense from a distribution standpoint. Various places sell custom box inserts just like TSO noted above.

Offline pixelated

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Kaizen has some youtube videos on cutting techniques, one method for getting radiused corners is to use a hole saw.
One other interesting thing is to use a combination of white and black foam. Outlines for the tools are cut completely through black foam, and it's then glued to a white foam base, which makes the profiles for whatever tools or objects stand out nicely. So far, I've worked only with black, but getting some white is on my to-do list.

I've found that the layers don't separate as cleanly as the pictures seem to suggest, but it doesn't matter very much. One of the more challenging things I've found is cutting a good systainer outline, taking the outline of one of Festool's inserts works ok, but there are a lot of small fussy cuts needed to make to get it to fit well. TSO's precut liners might be just the thing.

Offline SRSemenza

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      The Festool / Tanos foam is pick and pluck squares that are precut cut for seperation. Much easier to just take out the squares to get the shape needed. But it is limited to removing the roughly 3/4" square (unless you want to cut them). So if the tool needs a space of 'X' squares plus a little bit more , then you end up stuck with the next increment and extra space around the tool.

      Also there is a border (that could be cut) all the way around that is not precut. Limiting how close a tool can be placed to the side of a Systainer.

     It is available in two different densities  ------ one is soft and squishy the other is hard.

     The reason to get the tanos foam is ease of use. The reason to go with Kaizen is maximizing space and positioning.


Seth

Offline DynaGlide

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KAIZEN Foam pads precisely contour-cut to fit Systainer bottom and different upper layer(s) in production at TSO now.
Will be ready to ship later in March in pad thicknesses 20mm and 30mm.
Look for marking and hand-cutting tool kits for shop use on our website in March to go along with KAIZEN Foam.

Of course we'll have a package KAIZEN Foam deal to go with our TSO SkyBlue Systainer.

Look for some snapshots of TSO production KAIZEN Foam parts over the weekend

Hans and Eric

@TSO Products While you're at it how about some designed to fit the inside dimensions of SYS-AZ drawers for those of us that use them to hold workshop items.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline TSO Products

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@DynaGlide - thank for request. Please send us the Part number so there is no misunderstanding. We'll  buy a sample and do the engineering to create the models. the bottoms of SYSTAINERs really require a different pattern than upper level.
We are going with a 20mm bottom pad and a 30mm top pad for SYS 1 TL use. Of course multiple pads can be purchased. For economy of handling we are planning to offer the Set of (1)20 base pad and one (1) 30mm top pad shipped in a cardboard box for @29.95.

we're just finalizing the Product Page for the website. the pads are in stock now. Let's see how quick we can get them up for sale while put the new requested foam pad on the product road map for review and scheduling decision.

we'll post and publish as available goes "green" to ship.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Peter Halle

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For those looking for custom inserts for all sorts of tool boxes there is also Kaizen Inserts

That also have different tools for working with kaizen foam.

Peter

Offline fiftythree

  • Posts: 6
For those looking for custom inserts for all sorts of tool boxes there is also Kaizen Inserts

That also have different tools for working with kaizen foam.

Peter

I've ordered kaizen inserts from kaizeninserts.com for Systainers and L-Boxxes. They fit very well and seem very reasonably priced. Systainer inserts are $10-14$ depending on how thick you need. And I cut them with a box cutter and it works fine. Peeling the layers sometimes can be a pain, but usually works out okay.

294021-0294019-1294017-2

Offline DeformedTree

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For those looking for custom inserts for all sorts of tool boxes there is also Kaizen Inserts

That also have different tools for working with kaizen foam.

Peter

Still, not following, aside from a confusing website that is obsessed with their name, they only have inserts for like 2 tools I mentioned above. (constraining this to Tanos boxes).  I don't think many folks are looking for foam to cut, they are looking for pre-made inserts.

Offline SRSemenza

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For those looking for custom inserts for all sorts of tool boxes there is also Kaizen Inserts

That also have different tools for working with kaizen foam.

Peter

Still, not following, aside from a confusing website that is obsessed with their name, they only have inserts for like 2 tools I mentioned above. (constraining this to Tanos boxes).  I don't think many folks are looking for foam to cut, they are looking for pre-made inserts.


I don't find the website confusing.

 They sell the foam precut to fit the box. Saving that step. Making it handy to just go ahead and set up a new box.

 Any way it depends if you want to layout and cut out the foam yourself or not. It is not a whole lot of extra cost to save that first step in the process but it is or would be a whole lot more money to have custom inserts cut to fit the tools you want in a particular layout you want. Yes, a company could build a catalog of inserts for tools and that would be great, but it is unlikely to cover more than a small percentage of the tools in the world and certainly would not allow for custom layouts or combinations of tools and accessories.

The Festool / Tanos foam that does a function is not $8 it is $18.00. It also is precut cubes that have the limitations mentioned in my post above.

Seth

Offline tzed250

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Lee Valley has 25mm thick foam pre-cut to T-Loc shape in various options:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=68754&cat=1,43326,68749

Seems like a good price. I've used their lid foams for years, about to buy a bunch of these perforated foams.

Offline MikeGE

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For those looking for custom inserts for all sorts of tool boxes there is also Kaizen Inserts

That also have different tools for working with kaizen foam.

Peter

I have ordered a lot of Kaizen foam from Brian, as he was the only vendor I could find who would mail to my APO address and take the time to cut the standard sheets into smaller pieces that would meet the USPS dimensions.  I originally tried to order three full boxes of different thickness from FastCap, based on their glowing customer service, but they couldn't be bothered to cut the sheets into thirds and rebox them.  Fortunately for me, Brian did this and now offers partial sheets on his website.

I haven't ordered any Systainer inserts from Brian, but all of the Sortimo L-Boxx inserts I ordered from him fit perfectly.  I have no reason to doubt that the Systainer inserts would be any less perfect.