Author Topic: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??  (Read 19731 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« on: September 16, 2013, 03:33 PM »
With this new sys mft coming out there's been a lot of talk of who thought of the idea first. A few people are saying Tim tool but I remember seeing the idea years ago on here. Someone posted his version of it years ago but I cannot find the thread so if anyone can remember what it was called and can find it that would be great. I remember he had set up a website to sell them and a few members bought them. There was a classic version then he brought out a Tloc version when the Tlocs appeared.

Offline festoolviking

  • Posts: 361
Festoolviking

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 03:42 PM »
Yep thats it, there were a few threads at the time from festoller I think he bought one and reviewed it.

So it looks like it was BROR that came up with the idea

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 03:51 PM »

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9381
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 04:00 PM »
Pretty sure it was quite a few years before 2011. 


Have to do some searching.


Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9381
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 04:09 PM »
OK, maybe not. The earliest I can find now is from February 2011. It sure seems longer than that though.

http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/festool-tanos-all-things-systainer/4250-systainer-work-bench-top.html


Seth

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6857
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 05:06 PM »
OK, maybe not. The earliest I can find now is from February 2011. It sure seems longer than that though.

http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/festool-tanos-all-things-systainer/4250-systainer-work-bench-top.html


Seth

I also always thought you were the first one to come up with this idea, Seth, albeit in a crude form. Can't remember anybody who might have been earlier.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 05:26 PM »
Yeah on second thoughts Seth seems to have found it first.
Seth, do you remember where you found it ?

Offline joraft

  • Posts: 860
Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 07:57 PM »

Yeah on second thoughts Seth seems to have found it first.
Seth, do you remember where you found it ?


If I recall correctly, Seth found a guy selling them on eBay. The photos were from there.
John

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9381
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 08:35 PM »

Yeah on second thoughts Seth seems to have found it first.
Seth, do you remember where you found it ?


If I recall correctly, Seth found a guy selling them on eBay. The photos were from there.


Right. Something in the thread that I  linked to suggests that it was my idea. It wasn't I had just come across the item and posted about.  I purchased one from someone selling them in the Classifieds here on FOG a bit after that.

Seth

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 05:56 PM »
Hi guys, I would like to try to set the record straight on the systainer mft top.

I am a one-man woodworking and general building company, I do most of my work on-site. Inventing is my hobby.

Sometime in 2008 I was standing on one of my systainers (shouldn’t, I know)  and fell through the lid. Again. In the past I had also seriously damaged a few systainers with my circularsaw, router, and jigsaw. I couldn’t stand it any longer. Nor could I afford replacing demolished systainers any longer.

I set out to find a solution to be able to (mis)use the systainers on site without damaging my favorite tool transport system. It might even bring a new function to my many systainers on-site.

My first thought was to customise the lid of a systainer so it could hold substantial weight and protect the systainer from powertool damage. But why should I change the design of a perfect tool-transport container? Better make a special device that blends in within the system. I like tools to perform optimal. Made for the job. No compromises.

That’s when I got the idea to make a systainer top-workbench.

It should be a workbench-like design. Solid and with enough mass. Rectangular and with ample clamping possibilities. Fit the systainer like a glove. Strong and tough material. No fear of a little water. No plastics; it’s a mini workbench. Made of wood, of course. Functionality first. Made for the job.

One evening end of 2008 I made the first prototype.

92995-0

92997-1

92999-2





Then I set out to optimalise the design.The walls should be flush, clearly. Why not make the hole grid on top like my mft. I made the height the same as the sys 1, so it could blend in with the rest of the systainers.

93001-3

93003-4

93005-5

My colleagues and I used the set-up a lot. It looked like a useful addition to our equipment.

In 2009 I redesigned the systainer top workbench so I could produce it in small series. I called it the Systand. In februari 2010 I decided to try and get it patented in the Netherlands. Main reason: to prevent others from taking my idea, getting it patented, and forbidding me to make my own invention. Been there. Patent was granted.

93007-6

In the Netherlands a patent is called “Octrooi”

93009-7

Early in 2010 I contacted Festool, I told them about my design and sent them a systand. They told me it was a good idea but not suited as Festool product, nice design though, good luck with it. Furthermore Festool told me they had developed a new systainer: the T-loc, and advised me to design a work top for the new T-loc systainer . They sent me a T-loc 1 a few months before releasing it to the market, to facilitate my design efforts.

So I started to develop a T-loc version: the T-systand.

93011-8

I was not aware of the existence of the FOG at the time, until someone asked me if I had posted my invention on the FOG.  Got to my computer, found the FOG, saw a pityful version of my invention, joined the club and posted.

www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/systainer-mft-top-workbench/

In my spare time I produced systands and sold them through the internet and a few local shops. Some of you guys have one or two.

www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tool-reviews/the-systand-an-mft-style-systainer-top-workbench-review/

After some time I got a PM from Timtool. He wanted to make a different version of my systand, and asked me if he would be infringing on my patent. Decent guy. He wanted it to look like a systainer, a wooden box with a systand-like lid that looked like the plastic systainer. I told him my patent was about a set-up workbench, his was integrated in the lid of the box, so no problem and good luck with your design.

April 2012 the T-systand was ready. I sent one to Festool. Got no reply.

www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/t-systand-t-loc-systainer-top-workbench/


Until a few weeks ago.
I saw the sys-mft in a thread on the upcoming release of the new Festools.
Think I got my reply.

I guess Festool changed their mind and found my idea worthwile after all.

I bought a sys-mft, and compared it to my own (T)-systand.

I think my design is the far better on-site mini workbench.

Well, that’s my story so far,  hope you enjoyed reading it .

93013-9

93015-10

93017-11





« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 06:37 PM by bror »

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3322
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 06:49 PM »
thanks bror.

i have one of your classic designs.
its great. every time i bring it im glad i did. its very handy for small jobs where the mft isnt worth bringing
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2923
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 10:34 PM »
Bror -

I too have one of your designs in the T-Systand that I ordered here on the FOG from you.  It's great.  I like it better than the Festool design.  Far more flexible and I think it will wear much better.

Nice to see you posting again, and thanks for the history lesson!

neil

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 482
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 11:20 PM »
Bror,

I assume Festool is giving you proper credit (i.e., compensation) for the design...after all, the top is almost an exact replica of yours -- same hole pattern, miter slot/v-groove, etc.

Great job!

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 09:10 AM »
Alan, I'm very glad you enjoy using your systand. Did you get around to applying the extra hardware in one of your designs yet?

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3322
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 12:27 PM »
Alan, I'm very glad you enjoy using your systand. Did you get around to applying the extra hardware in one of your designs yet?

no never got around to it.
its on the list. somewhere
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 03:42 PM »
thanks Neil, It's great to hear that you like it.

It would be really interesting if someone volunteered to do a test of both the sys-mft and the T-systand and did a review on it. I would be happy to supply a few T-systands for this purpose. I guess both of us would not be considered unbiased though.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Re: Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 04:34 PM »
thanks Neil, It's great to hear that you like it.

It would be really interesting if someone volunteered to do a test of both the sys-mft and the T-systand and did a review on it. I would be happy to supply a few T-systands for this purpose. I guess both of us would not be considered unbiased though.

Bror , I've just bought the sys mft and would love to compare your t systand to it. Only trouble is I'm in the UK would that be a problem.

I did email you back when you started to get info but I never did get around to ordering one.

If theres one going spare count me in , I'm good at reviews ;D

PM me

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2013, 03:01 PM »
joiner 1970, The test-T-systand is on it's way. Might take a few days to get there. looking forward to your review.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3222
Re: Re: Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 03:07 PM »
joiner 1970, The test-T-systand is on it's way. Might take a few days to get there. looking forward to your review.

Thanks Rogier, I look forward to giving it a good test. I've not used the sys mft yet so will give that a go at the same time and do an impartial review

Offline PA floor guy

  • Posts: 290
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 03:53 PM »
I would really like to buy a few of these sys stands. Either version or both. Would someone please inform me How I can get my hands on 2 of them. I live in the US.  Pa to be exact.  Thanks.  Sam

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3322
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 05:20 PM »
I would really like to buy a few of these sys stands. Either version or both. Would someone please inform me How I can get my hands on 2 of them. I live in the US.  Pa to be exact.  Thanks.  Sam

PM bror is the best way
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 05:43 PM »
Thanks Alan, that's probably right.
You can also always order or get info through mail at: info@diafer.nl

Offline Timtool

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
    • My website
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2013, 06:59 AM »
Nice to read Brors story, just to clarify one point. When i started designing the MFTB i wasn't aware of the systand's existence. I however had seen one of the simple flat plate designs on ebay.
It's during the later planning stages that i stumbled on the systand and my initial reaction was to cancel everything as i didn't want to take someone else's idea. I then contacted Bror showing him my design and see if he was ok with it. luckily for me he is a great guy.

I think we will never know what caused Festool to build their own sys-mft over 4 years after being shown the systand and dismissing it. I wouldn't be so self confident to claim it was the MFTB that triggered it, but possibly a combination of it all with the continuous interest of woodworkers in this type of design that finally opened Festool's eyes.

I haven't seen a sys-mft in person yet, but i am not sure what to think of the recesses in the top to allow hooking systainers on it. To me the better compromise was to lose that ability in favor of a flat top.
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline oil trader

  • Posts: 39
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2013, 12:43 AM »
Bror,

I assume Festool is giving you proper credit (i.e., compensation) for the design...after all, the top is almost an exact replica of yours -- same hole pattern, miter slot/v-groove, etc.

Great job!

Promark - My interpretation of his post is that he's not received anything at all from Festool.

Offline AlexDSL

  • Posts: 24
  • Blog Author
    • TravaillerLeBois.com | Outils, techniques et réalisations
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 11:55 AM »
Okay, well, I know a little better who are inspired by the MFT to create functional materials :   ;)


Here is another :




More info on this post :
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/a-step-stool-ikea-multifunction-!/

Alex
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 12:02 PM by AlexDSL »

Offline bror

  • Posts: 85
    • diafer.nl
Re: Anyone remember the first systainer mft ??
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2013, 04:22 PM »
Nice to read Brors story, just to clarify one point. When i started designing the MFTB i wasn't aware of the systand's existence. I however had seen one of the simple flat plate designs on ebay.
It's during the later planning stages that i stumbled on the systand and my initial reaction was to cancel everything as i didn't want to take someone else's idea. I then contacted Bror showing him my design and see if he was ok with it. luckily for me he is a great guy.

I think we will never know what caused Festool to build their own sys-mft over 4 years after being shown the systand and dismissing it. I wouldn't be so self confident to claim it was the MFTB that triggered it, but possibly a combination of it all with the continuous interest of woodworkers in this type of design that finally opened Festool's eyes.

I haven't seen a sys-mft in person yet, but i am not sure what to think of the recesses in the top to allow hooking systainers on it. To me the better compromise was to lose that ability in favor of a flat top.
Timtool: I absolutely never meant to suggest that you're a copy-cat, I do recognize a real inventor when I see one. I'm totally with you about the flat top.  
no compromises on functionality.