Author Topic: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood  (Read 1741 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« on: July 11, 2021, 10:47 PM »
I had to redo a lot of my decking 4 years ago.  All of the 2x4 and 2x6 material at big box stores said they weren't for ground contact.  4 years later I got these huge bugs (not carpenter bees) making tunnels through this stuff.  I had shoulder surgery and some other issues and I never got around to sealing them in any way.

I need to replace a few pieces but I don't want to leave them out in the sun for > 30 days before staining them.  If I give them a good sanding, can I stain immediately, assuming they aren't soaking wet when I buy them ?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4171
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2021, 08:07 AM »
You might do well to pull up a few boards and verify that the substructure is still in good shape before spending a lot of time sanding and staining.  If you do have problems, rip it out and replace it with materials that ARE certified for ground contact.  Those materials are likely going to be soaking wet, so wait 90 days or so before staining them, just to let the excess water get out of the lumber.
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2021, 09:29 AM »
Thats the point.  If I put up new boards and they are not stained, then I run the risk of these critters getting back in.  If I just lay them out in the sun, they will be warped beyond use in a week.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2021, 10:08 AM »
Could you substitute redwood, cedar or cypress so that you don't have to wait for the fir to dry out?

Offline David

  • Posts: 515
  • Author/speaker/advisor to entrepreneurial experts.
    • A few pieces that I’ve built
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2021, 02:38 PM »
I had to redo a lot of my decking 4 years ago.  All of the 2x4 and 2x6 material at big box stores said they weren't for ground contact.  4 years later I got these huge bugs (not carpenter bees) making tunnels through this stuff.  I had shoulder surgery and some other issues and I never got around to sealing them in any way.

I need to replace a few pieces but I don't want to leave them out in the sun for > 30 days before staining them.  If I give them a good sanding, can I stain immediately, assuming they aren't soaking wet when I buy them ?

I've been told by two different contractors that you have to wait a year, but I don't know if that's true.
Fifth book (less interesting than woodworking) at http://www.expertise.is

Offline Holzhacker

  • Posts: 1010
    • www.aic-chicago.com
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2021, 06:48 PM »
All depends on how wet it is when you buy it and what the weather is. Around here given the wood and weather usually 30-60 days.
The companies who pressure was decks, porches fences and then stain usually pressure wash 1 week, then come back in a week or two for the staining.
Buy a cheap wood moisture meter and check moisture level until dry enough. Paint and stain products often have a listing for maximum moisture content for use.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 82
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2021, 10:32 PM »
I did a bit of a deep research dive rebuilding a portion of my deck last year.  Ground contact lumber was very hard to find during COVID.  I dried mine by stacking with spacers between pieces and ran a fan continuously over the stack for better part of a week.   I compressed the stack with ratchet straps to keep boards from turning into pretzels.

Sanding the stuff is likely a bad idea as the injected chemicals are there to kill bugs and such and will be bad for humans too.   Also learned the newer treatments accelerate corrosion and special fasteners and hangers are recommended.  There’s a thread posted on the FOG with my rebuild.

Some general information from pressure treated lumber association here:

https://awpa.com/info/technical/homeowners

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2021, 12:00 AM »
Could you substitute redwood, cedar or cypress so that you don't have to wait for the fir to dry out?

Got a quote from my ply/hardwood supplier.  He can get 16' lengths of 2x6 Western Red Cedar for $75 a pop.  He said its not cheaper to get smaller lengths, same price per bd ft no matter what.  After thinking about it, that really doesn't seem like a bad price.  Now I just have to figure out how to get it home.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2021, 12:25 AM »
Got a quote from my ply/hardwood supplier.  He can get 16' lengths of 2x6 Western Red Cedar for $75 a pop.  He said its not cheaper to get smaller lengths, same price per bd ft no matter what.  After thinking about it, that really doesn't seem like a bad price.  Now I just have to figure out how to get it home.

Rick that's really the best solution...waiting for that treated to dry will take a lifetime...mine and then yours, besides when it dries it pretzels, and that's not pretty, a lot of that stuff becomes scrap.  Consider cutting those 16' lengths down to shorter lengths with a cordless saw. There's really no reason to haul 16' lengths home only to cut them down to the proper length.

Do you actually need 2x material when 5/4 material is usually what they use for decking?

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1489
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 06:39 AM »
@Rick Herrick let's step back for a moment and gather some additional information.

How big is your deck? The size of an aircraft carrier or a postage stamp?

How many boards do you need to replace?

Have you checked the structure underneath, joists beams posts to make sure they are sound?

If the underlying structure is sound, it might be a good time to think about redoing the whole surface in 5/4.You may have other boards involved in this insect damage just not as apparent or extensive.

Around here composite boards are running about $28 for 16 feet and pressure treated are $10-$14 in 5/4

Depending on how many boars you are replacing at $75 a board it might be cost effective to redo it.

Ron

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 429
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2021, 08:24 AM »
I believe your question contains a false premise that staining the boards will somehow interfere with the insects invading them.  I'm not aware of any stain that will affect your insect problem in any positive way.  It seems that the pressure treated lumber you used wasn't adequately treated and needs to be replaced.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 08:52 AM »
Cheese, Ron, Kevin.  Thank you for your posts.  I just realized I did not adequately state my case in the original post.  I'll start over.  My deck is 13 years old, 12x16 and about 15' off the ground.  4 years ago I realized I had some issues.  The floor joists and the rim joists are all 2x10 and other than 2 of them closest to the stairs, they are in good shape.  Those two had rotten spots, on the top, about 24" long and 3" in depth.  I knew I could not easily replace them so I did the 'sister' thing with some 2x6 material.

Most of the flooring boards (5/4) were in bad shape and splintering.  The railing on top was done in a manner (to my eyes) that I did not like so I made the decision to replace all stair treads and all flooring boards with 5/4 pressure treated.  I got these from a high quality, family owned lumber store and they have been perfect.  For all of the railing and balusters, I used 2x4 for framing and 2x6 for the top cap and 2x2 for the balusters.  All of this 2x material was bought from Lowes and HD and this is the stuff with the tag 'no rated for ground contact'.  That should have been my first clue. 

The top cap is the stuff I am having trouble with, that is the only thing I am trying to fix, other than finally pressure washing and getting a good solid, Valspar, stain on them.  I guess not being ground related has put out the sign to these big flying triangles to invade it.

The reason I want a full 16' board is both for one long section of the railing (other 16' side is against the house) top cap and both top caps for the stairs.  Currently I had to piece together the pieces and they have separated at the joints and look like crapola. 

Actually the length of the top cap for the stairs is closer to 16', 3" so I need to be creative, even with a full 16' board.

All of this was before I got semi serious about wood working and bought a lot of tools.  So for now, I am going to continue pressure washing and staining (a little at a time due to time constraints) and rethink the top cap issue.  No matter what, I will have joints in this top cap and I was trying to find a good piece of stone (8x8x2" roughly) I could set over each joint which would make it look a little better and keep some rain out of it.  I will investigate 5/4 material for top cap as well.  I may have to break out the Domino and figure out how to do some nice glued up domino joints to make my longer boards.  The 5/4 does sound better as it would also be 'less chunky' looking.  Trying to figure out how to put a little slope to each side (like a road way) to help drainage and not let water sit in the middle of a board for too long.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 08:58 AM by Rick Herrick »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2021, 10:33 AM »
Ok Rick...now it's making more sense.  [smile]

I wouldn't put stone over the joint unless it's just temporary to hide the joint. Anything you put on the joint will suck up moisture and turn it into a larger problem.

For that top cap, when I did my dad's deck rail, I brought over my Dewalt 735 planer and put a bevel on each side of it so it would shed water, that worked well.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2021, 10:59 AM »
Thats an interesting option Cheese.  What was the thickness of your Dad's material?  I am looking at roughly 72' lineal feet.  That seems like a lot of feeding into the planar (I have the 735 as well).  I imagine its a lot of passes just to bring one side down, let alone both. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2021, 11:53 AM »
It's really not bad at all Rick, my dad used a 2x6 so maybe 3-4 passes total. You don't need to put a lot of taper on it because once it's painted/sealed it sheds water easily. I think I used the typical 1/4" per foot taper used for plumbing. So a 3" (actually less than that) run needs to drop...you do the math. [smile] I'd run one side through, rotate it end for end & run the other side through. Drop the planer a little rinse & repeat.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2021, 12:30 PM »
@Cheese When you did yours for your Dad, where did you start the 'drop'?  The middle of the board, dropping about 1/8-1/16 to the  edge?  How did you fasten the top cap?  I really want to stay away from fasteners on the top.  Wondering if some smaller, stainless, L brackets would work.  I can hide them under the cap and paint over them so they don't show.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2021, 03:04 PM »
In the middle of the board Rick, like I said...you don't need a lot of taper. It came out really nice, 2x6 cedar.
My dad was an HVAC guy and making metal items was right up his alley, so he fabricated stainless L brackets. [smile] 
The deck needed in-fill panels for code purposes so he placed an L bracket on each side of the post and the in-fill panel covered it up when you were on the deck.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1489
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2021, 04:18 PM »
@Cheese curious about how you accomplished the taper. Did you clamp a jig to the planer bed?

Ron

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4171
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2021, 05:26 PM »
Several years back, I replaced a bunch of wood on a friend's deck, including the top cap.  To help with drainage, I used my table saw to "tent" the top of the rail such that water drained off to both sides.  That meant that there was less material removed in total so the top rails were more resistant to warping.  I think I'd prefer that method over sloping it off to one side.  YMMV... 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 593
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2021, 05:43 PM »
Several years back, I replaced a bunch of wood on a friend's deck, including the top cap.  To help with drainage, I used my table saw to "tent" the top of the rail such that water drained off to both sides.  That meant that there was less material removed in total so the top rails were more resistant to warping.  I think I'd prefer that method over sloping it off to one side.  YMMV...

It sounds like that's what @Cheese did, as he mentioned he "put a bevel on both sides".

At least, I've been picturing it 'tented' by that description, but now I'm starting to doubt...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2021, 07:15 PM »
Wow…this is a rough crowd.  [big grin]

@squall_line you are correct.

@Sparktrician you are also correct.

I tented/beveled the top of the rail in both directions so there was a crest in the middle.

@rvieceli I clamped an edge guide to one side of the planer and a wooden spacer on the other side. One side of the 2x6 was laid on top of the wooden spacer and the other side/edge was guided along the edge guide.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2021, 10:48 PM »
Thanks again guys.  Glad to hear the L brackets aren't a bad option.  Just need to find some good stainless ones.  Went to big box central today and not much luck.  They had some zinc coated but wasn't sure how good that was.

Found out the $72, 16' cedar boards were actually 8/4.  They only have it in 4/4 and 8/4.  So those aren't exactly what I want.  I may just practice my bondo skills and repair the ones I have now.  Will save the the new top caps for later.  Wonder how well a Rotex would work in putting the tent on these old ones.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2021, 11:20 PM »
Wonder how well a Rotex would work in putting the tent on these old ones.

Consider a Festool Positioning Aid with 40 grit Saphir. Clamp a metal/wood extension on to the bottom of the existing cap rail for enhanced perpendicularity and have at it.  [smile]  Some 40 grit Saphir to remove the existing coating and bevel the wood and then follow up with 80 & 150 Granat to pretty up the surface.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2021, 11:29 PM »
Consider a Festool Positioning Aid with 40 grit Saphir. Clamp a metal/wood extension on to the bottom of the existing cap rail for enhanced perpendicularity and have at it.  [smile]  Some 40 grit Saphir to remove the existing coating and bevel the wood and then follow up with 80 & 150 Granat to pretty up the surface.

Now your just messing with me.. [big grin]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2021, 11:52 PM »
Now your just messing with me.. [big grin]

Your battles are all internal Rick... [smile]...you've gotta admit the positioning aid is a cheap solution. Thinking about that for a second, if a guy didn't have a planer it's actually a viable alternative if time is on your side.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2021, 05:19 AM »
All true.  Right now I only have the ETS-EC 125, not sure if the edge sanding guide fits it.  Will be fun just trying to 'free-hand' it on these existing caps as they will be replaced anyway.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2021, 09:17 AM »
No-go with the ETS EC.  [sad]

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1489
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2021, 10:33 AM »
A hand plane would also work.

Ron

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 539
Re: When can I stain new 'pressure treated' wood
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2021, 12:35 PM »
Thanks Ron, that's on my bucket list of skills I want to learn.  I don't have any planes yet.