Author Topic: WAGO Electrical connectors  (Read 8230 times)

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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1152
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2022, 09:12 AM »
Holy petunias, I spent most of today wishing I had these connectors handy. ~11-ish years after building the house and it seems we've reached the bosses tipping point to start updating everything. 3 ceiling fans replaced and more to follow, it would have been so much simpler mating up solid 12 and stranded 20 with these.

My own fault, as Jersey oddly allows you to GC your own home construction, right down to the electrical. Everything is inspected of course but amateurs do goofy stuff. Following grandpa's rule (if one nail is good, 3 must be better) I figured 12 gauge must be better than 14, no lights dimming when the refer started up. And switch legs to every bank of 4-6 can lights, with our bedroom having 4 switches in one box. Had to untangle 5 12ga conductors wire nutted together to rearrange some switches. My hands ache.

Anyway, I'm ordering an assortment before inspiration strikes the boss again.

RMW

Other states allow you to GC the remodel of your own home or new construction of a home you will move into.

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2022, 10:45 AM »

I've found the Barrina LED's are sensitive to voltage spikes and that can become an annoyance. They do not like auto-on/auto-off switching.

@Cheese i haven’t noticed that with my Barrinas. What do they do?

My Flex vac however is very sensitive and will occasionally start up and run for a couple of seconds then shut off when something is turned on or off.


Ron @rvieceli it started when I removed the fluorescent lighting and simply replaced the fixtures with Barrina LED's. I continued to use the existing Leviton photoelectric switches, models 6791 & 6793. Within a couple of months multiple Barrina units were dying as in flickering, being dimmer than they originally were or not working at all. I traced it down to the Leviton units I was using were NOT rated for LED use even though they appeared to work with the LED's.

I replaced the Leviton units with Legrand RW600U occupancy sensors which ARE rated for LED usage and only got about 12-14 months before the LED's started to die again.

I then replaced the Legrand sensors with Lutron MS VPS2 sensors and they've been working for about 2 years now.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1734
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2022, 10:51 AM »
Oh OK. I’m just old school, mine are just on a straight switch. None of that high tech new fangled stuff for me.  [big grin]

Ron

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 334
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2022, 01:36 AM »
a brief history, Wago released their original "Push Wire" connector first but it was limited to 18-12 gauge wire, Both were "stab-in" designs but removing wires from both of the connectors was a real PITA. Photos of original Wago first

(Attachment Link)

Glad you posted this.  I have been using the original Wago push in connectors for 15+ years now.  Along with wire nuts which I started on long ago.  I always chuckle a little when everyone posts about how miraculous and magical and mystical the new amazing Wago snap down reusable connectors are.  The current ones.  I've somehow managed just fine for decades using my old time push in Wago connectors.  And I would not call it a PITA to get the original push in Wagos disconnected.  It takes a little pulling, but you can get the wire out and reuse the connectors just fine.  Being cheap I do not throw old connectors away.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2022, 11:44 AM »
I always chuckle a little when everyone posts about how miraculous and magical and mystical the new amazing Wago snap down reusable connectors are.  The current ones.  I've somehow managed just fine for decades using my old time push in Wago connectors.  And I would not call it a PITA to get the original push in Wagos disconnected.  It takes a little pulling, but you can get the wire out and reuse the connectors just fine.  Being cheap I do not throw old connectors away.

You're correct with everything you say as long as you're using solid copper wire. I've done a lot of outside wiring for garden luminaires using standard outdoor rated stranded copper wire. I always tin the ends for connectivity reasons because if the ends are just twisted together with a wire nut, the wire ends will oxidize and you'll get bad connections at some later date. The tinned ends also allow me to use the Wago "stab-in" style connector.

The outdoor rated stranded wires and the Wago connectors work well together, some are 12-13 years old. The issue is when you try to remove the stranded wires from the Wago connectors the tinned end is fine but the individual strands that are not tinned break and separate. The new Wago 221 style works well for outside and I still prefer them for use on interior wiring because they're so simple to use. 

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1675
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2022, 03:45 PM »
The push in type is NOT for stranded! Regardless of tinning...

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3081
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2022, 11:45 AM »
I’m a big fan of WAGO’s.

Do they make the water resistant connectors that you’d use on an irrigation system?  I have the gel filled wire nuts, but they are a mess and difficult to diagnose solenoids and such for repairs.  Mine are all in underground plastic service boxes and will fill with water on heavy rains, so the gel insulation is important.



Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1675
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2022, 06:14 PM »
I’m a big fan of WAGO’s.

Do they make the water resistant connectors that you’d use on an irrigation system?  I have the gel filled wire nuts, but they are a mess and difficult to diagnose solenoids and such for repairs.  Mine are all in underground plastic service boxes and will fill with water on heavy rains, so the gel insulation is important.

See WAGO gelbox. But for underground use I would just fill the junction box with resin and be done with it.

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 562
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2022, 11:15 PM »
You won't be sorry Richard, they work very well.

No doubt. $80 got me 25 each of the 2/3/5 and 60 singles. Hopefully enough to last me to the retirement home.

RMW

Source and links please. I would like to get some too.
Vijay Kumar

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 361
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2022, 07:36 AM »
I get mine from Newark electronics;

https://www.newark.com/wago/221-412-ve00-2500/terminal-block-pluggable-2pos/dp/71Y8326

Link is for the 2 conductor ones, but they have all the varieties.

Coincidentally, one of my weekend projects was changing out a ceiling fan. The Wagos were great, I pre-installed them on the fan's wiring with the lever for the house wiring flipped up. Then once on the ladder, it was just a matter of sticking the supply wires in and locking them.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2309
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2022, 08:02 AM »
You won't be sorry Richard, they work very well.

No doubt. $80 got me 25 each of the 2/3/5 and 60 singles. Hopefully enough to last me to the retirement home.

RMW

Source and links please. I would like to get some too.

Got an assortment from Amazon then filled in with single connectors from REV Robotics.

https://www.amazon.com/WAGO-Lever-Nuts-75pc-Connector-Assortment/dp/B018MGMFDI

https://www.revrobotics.com/rev-15-2491/

I also wired up a couple ceiling fans using them which required the least swearing ever for that particular job.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 864
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2022, 10:48 AM »
Been using these for a few years now and I can't say enough good things about them.  Currently in the middle of two whole house rewires (one live-in) and these are an absolute godsend, especially when needing to make temporary connections to keep some circuits powered as they get replaced.

And so easy to swap out light switches, receptacles, etc. in the future since you don't have to snip off twisted wires/nuts and lose length in the box.
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 562
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2022, 11:52 AM »
Excellent. Thanks @Richard/RMW and @pixelated . Ceiling fan is just the project I was thinking of.
Vijay Kumar

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2022, 12:07 PM »
I’m a big fan of WAGO’s.

Do they make the water resistant connectors that you’d use on an irrigation system?  I have the gel filled wire nuts, but they are a mess and difficult to diagnose solenoids and such for repairs.  Mine are all in underground plastic service boxes and will fill with water on heavy rains, so the gel insulation is important.

For voltages of 50 VAC or less Wago recommends using the Gelbox by itself. For voltages greater than 50 VAC, Wago recommends using the Gelbox inside a dry junction box. The Gelbox itself is IPX8 rated.

The nice thing is that the Gelbox media is reusable as compared to the typical silicone media which is messy.

Here's what the stuff looks like when you reuse it, a before & after photo.








« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 12:11 PM by Cheese »

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 864
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2022, 03:44 PM »
I’m a big fan of WAGO’s.

Do they make the water resistant connectors that you’d use on an irrigation system?  I have the gel filled wire nuts, but they are a mess and difficult to diagnose solenoids and such for repairs.  Mine are all in underground plastic service boxes and will fill with water on heavy rains, so the gel insulation is important.

For voltages of 50 VAC or less Wago recommends using the Gelbox by itself. For voltages greater than 50 VAC, Wago recommends using the Gelbox inside a dry junction box. The Gelbox itself is IPX8 rated.

The nice thing is that the Gelbox media is reusable as compared to the typical silicone media which is messy.

Here's what the stuff looks like when you reuse it, a before & after photo.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

So you can just repack the gel after peeling it off?  Got a good US source for the gelboxes?
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high


Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1675
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2022, 08:44 PM »

The nice thing is that the Gelbox media is reusable as compared to the typical silicone media which is messy.


I don't think they claim that. "Wiederzüganglichkeit" just means you can access them again, contrary to resin filled junction boxes where you have to cut the entire cable and replace all the connections if you want any expansion or change.

Wiederzüganglichkeit translates more or less to 're-accessible'.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 367
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2022, 09:39 PM »

The nice thing is that the Gelbox media is reusable as compared to the typical silicone media which is messy.

The Wago Gelbox is not reusable, just the connectors you put inside it.  Once the Gelbox is closed and the gell oozes around the connectors and wires, it cannot be opened again without breaking the IPX8 seal.

Depending on the size, the Gelbox is available in packs of three or four for about €20.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2022, 11:56 PM »
Thanks for that clarification from both @Coen  and @MikeGE ...the verbiage from Wago is rather obtuse.  [tongue]

Here's the official Wago answer whatever this means.

"The gel is silicone-free. This allows the Gelbox to be used in any branch of industry – even those where varnishes, paints and other sensitive products are used, such as the automotive industry. Secondly, the silicone-free gel has already reacted, so it is fully label-free and can be stored indefinitely. This cannot be said of all components used to manufacture potting compounds. In addition, the silicone-free gel potting compound uniquely allows a user to re-access the connection" – the keyword here: re-accessibility.

It would have been a lot more succinct answer if they had stipulated that the access to the connection is a one-time only occurrence and that a new Gelbox would need to be utilized to provide protection once the Gelbox is opened...sheesh...why do these people feel the need to obfuscate?  It's a better mouse trap, let's just move forward.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 367
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2022, 06:05 AM »
It would have been a lot more succinct answer if they had stipulated that the access to the connection is a one-time only occurrence and that a new Gelbox would need to be utilized to provide protection once the Gelbox is opened...sheesh...why do these people feel the need to obfuscate?  It's a better mouse trap, let's just move forward.

You can attribute the confusion on the cultural differences and approximation of translation between German and English.  Some German words or phrases are difficult to directly translate...you just have to know what the meaning is.

Offline StanB

  • Posts: 573
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2022, 12:59 PM »
can the wag splice kit be used without a box? Tyco made a splice kit for romex that is similar to the single wago on the plate.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-A22899-000/202204326
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 9868
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2022, 01:28 PM »
can the wag splice kit be used without a box? Tyco made a splice kit for romex that is similar to the single wago on the plate.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-A22899-000/202204326

Yes, when used for that application the Wago Inline connectors would be fastened to a carrier.



Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 206
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2022, 03:10 PM »
@rst - many thanks for the REV Robotics link! I hope they are selling carriers for those splice connectors too.

Most old school US electricians frown upon Wago connectors. They prefer wire nuts. One argument I heard is that Wagos get hot under load because they have a conductor bus and numerous heating/cooling cycles can work the electrical connection loose.
Sounds like an extreme edge case to me.

Any electricians on this forum who can confirm or debunk that?

Are wire nuts used in Europe as well?

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 367
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2022, 04:02 PM »
@rst - many thanks for the REV Robotics link! I hope they are selling carriers for those splice connectors too.

Most old school US electricians frown upon Wago connectors. They prefer wire nuts. One argument I heard is that Wagos get hot under load because they have a conductor bus and numerous heating/cooling cycles can work the electrical connection loose.
Sounds like an extreme edge case to me.

Any electricians on this forum who can confirm or debunk that?

Are wire nuts used in Europe as well?

I think the "old school" says it all.  I had five U.S. Master Electricians on my staff who ranged in age from 30 to 65.  They love the Wago connectors.

I can't speak for all of Europe, but wire nuts are not allowed in Germany for any electrical work.  I don't think I ever saw them in Italy, Belgium, France, or The Netherlands, and I spent a lot of time working on electrical distribution systems in those countries.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1675
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2022, 04:32 PM »
Most old school US electricians frown upon Wago connectors. They prefer wire nuts. One argument I heard is that Wagos get hot under load because they have a conductor bus and numerous heating/cooling cycles can work the electrical connection loose.
Sounds like an extreme edge case to me.

Any electricians on this forum who can confirm or debunk that?

99% of faults with Wago's is blatant user error. Usually damaged bent wire stripped too short. These same old school guys use manual stripping pliers and even though they won't admit it, they (the user) are not stripping to correct length.

Are wire nuts used in Europe as well?

Yes. I cut them out of existing installations I have to work on and re-use them to close the tip of the caulk tube.

I can't speak for all of Europe, but wire nuts are not allowed in Germany for any electrical work.  I don't think I ever saw them in Italy, Belgium, France, or The Netherlands, and I spent a lot of time working on electrical distribution systems in those countries.

Most installations pre ~1980 will have them, even in NL. They are also still sold new and used, including DIY stores.

It's much easier to f#ck up the installation of a wire nut without it being very visible than to do the same with the installation of a Wago.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 06:15 PM by Coen »

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 334
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2022, 07:01 PM »
Are wire nuts used in Europe as well?

Yes. I cut them out of existing installations I have to work on and re-use them to close the tip of the caulk tube.

Hmmmm.  I use wire nuts for that too.  Make good caulk gun tube caps after cutting the nozzle.  But you can't cut the nozzle down at the fat end.  Tip has to be narrow to fit the wire nut on top.

I use wire nuts in electrical work.  Yellow and red nuts.  And I use the original Wago connectors too.  The old style push in.  Not the new fancy dandy flip switch ones.  Whatever works.  If I am in an uncomfortable position, then Wago are easiest and quickest to shove in.  If the box is full with wires, then Wago takes up less space.  But if everything is easy and open and lots of room, then wire nuts are good and fine too.  And sometimes its whatever is easiest to find and get to.  I'm in the US.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 05:33 PM by RussellS »

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 206
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2022, 12:20 PM »
I can't speak for all of Europe, but wire nuts are not allowed in Germany for any electrical work.  I don't think I ever saw them in Italy, Belgium, France, or The Netherlands, and I spent a lot of time working on electrical distribution systems in those countries.

That actually sets my mind at ease. It sounds very similar to how US plumbers were bashing PEX 15 years ago as a material far inferior to copper. My city still prohibits pex for residential water supply piping. Very annoying.

If wire nuts are not allowed in Germany, what was used before Wago connectors became available? Similar push-in system?

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 206
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2022, 12:26 PM »
99% of faults with Wago's is blatant user error. Usually damaged bent wire stripped too short. These same old school guys use manual stripping pliers and even though they won't admit it, they (the user) are not stripping to correct length.

Very true!  ;D Every electrician that worked on my house used manual stripping pliers. But they were extremely fast and seemed to strip all wires exactly to the same length. Of course they were using wire nuts where the length of exposed wire doesn't have to be precise.

Yes. I cut them out of existing installations I have to work on and re-use them to close the tip of the caulk tube.
Interesting. Have electricians in NL switched to Wagos or they keep using wire nuts?

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 367
Re: WAGO Electrical connectors
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2022, 12:54 PM »
If wire nuts are not allowed in Germany, what was used before Wago connectors became available? Similar push-in system?

Something similar to these terminal strips, which are still used today.  Each feed-through section is electrically isolated from the adjacent terminals.  Depending on the size of the strip and size of the conductors, several conductors can fit in each end for a solid connection.  The sections can be cut away so they are separate, or kept in groups of three for Line, Neutral, and Ground.