Author Topic: Undercabinet lighting in the modern era (Read 2053 times)

live4ever · « **on:** January 30, 2023, 02:41 PM »

I need to get updated on the current state of the art with respect to undercabinet lighting. I have a few kitchens coming up as well as some built-ins/floating shelving and I’d like to incorporate modern LED lighting.

Not too long ago, false bottoms seemed to be the norm, but now I’m seeing more installations that don’t require false bottoms or other structural additions to the cabinets/shelves, such as Hafele’s Loox (an aluminum extrusion with diffuser that houses the LED tape) or recessed pucks made possible with jigs to send low voltage wiring through standard thickness cabinet bottoms.

What are y’all using? Would love to see any tips/tricks for the electrical rough-in/transformer placement, concealing elements, etc.

kmalone · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2023, 02:49 PM »

Might be able to get some ideas from how they address the lighting in this shelfing installation...

Lincoln · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2023, 03:07 PM »

I use the Loox system, very user friendly. Just need to be able to find an accessible spot for the transformer - usually in the exhaust hood cabinet or in the cavity behind the fridge overhead cabinet. They're quite small so it's not usually a problem. I plan out all of my wiring before install and rout any channels needed to conceal the wiring.
Even though there are cheaper alternatives, I also use the Loox aluminium extrusion, one that has a small lip either side to totally cover the channel you've routed. Hafele # 833.72.846.

Packard · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2023, 03:55 PM »

It takes a rare individual who can live with floating shelves and make them look good at the same time.

I read an article on decorating open shelving once and there were lots of rules.

* No more than 30% of any given shelf should be occupied.
* You should have items of differing heights on each shelf.
* If you have a cube shaped item on one shelf, you should not put a cube shaped item on an adjacent shelf.
* Items should be decanted; nothing should be in the manufacturer’s packaging…
* Yada, yada, yada.

In addition you have to dust them frequently, make sure that they are aligned nicely, etc.

In other words, open shelves are a task-heavy storage option.

All those tasks disappear with closed shelving. Closed cabinets also allow for greater storage density.

Having tried to discourage you, I have seen images with LED light strips attached in dadoes, so that the light is seen and not the lights. I would do a mock up to determine the best location of the light (towards the front, middle or rear of the shelf).

My kitchen under cabinet lights range in intensity from a night-light-glow to reading-light-intensity. I mostly leave it as a night light.

I used to have a large collection of books (I now use a tablet for reading). When my book shelf grew too full, I endeavored to donate books to friends and relatives according to what I thought would interest them. My only rules were that they were not to be returned to me, and once they had read it, they should give it to someone else.

That backfired. For every book I gave away, I got three gifted to me from those same recipients. So instead of emptying my shelves, they remained full with stacks of books in the corners of the room.

As you can tell, I’m not a fan of open shelves, and floating shelves are the most visible, so your decorating faux pas will be most noticed with them.

afish · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2023, 04:00 PM »

I used led in extrusion and mortised that into a false bottom along with mortising in legrand plug mold so there is no outlets or switches in the back splash so I could use seamless back painted tempered glass or the backslash and not detract from the look with a bunch of outlets. and everything is flush on the bottom.

kevinculle · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2023, 04:27 PM »

I get my fixtures from Armacost Lighting

Armacost Lighting

and have been very satisfied with pricing and quality of hardware. I use LED puck lights under upper cabinets and they provide nice even illumination over the countertop surface.

live4ever · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2023, 12:51 PM »

Quote from: kmalone on January 30, 2023, 02:49 PM

Might be able to get some ideas from how they address the lighting in this shelfing installation...

Cool build, kind of made me want a Lamello.

Quote from: Lincoln on January 30, 2023, 03:07 PM

I use the Loox system, very user friendly. Just need to be able to find an accessible spot for the transformer - usually in the exhaust hood cabinet or in the cavity behind the fridge overhead cabinet. They're quite small so it's not usually a problem. I plan out all of my wiring before install and rout any channels needed to conceal the wiring.
Even though there are cheaper alternatives, I also use the Loox aluminium extrusion, one that has a small lip either side to totally cover the channel you've routed. Hafele # 833.72.846.

Thanks for the rec! Are you hardwiring your transformers or do you like to locate a receptacle in the cabinet of choice?

Quote from: Packard on January 30, 2023, 03:55 PM

It takes a rare individual who can live with floating shelves and make them look good at the same time.

Snip

As you can tell, I’m not a fan of open shelves, and floating shelves are the most visible, so your decorating faux pas will be most noticed with them.

Hahaha, totally agree that many design trends aren’t very practical. Personally I can’t even remember the last time I used the undercab lights in my own kitchen (overhead lighting is plentiful), but I’d never leave them out of a kitchen for myself or others. Floating shelves, yeah, people think they’ll live like the magazines/Pinterest, but it takes very dedicated cleaning habits (or housekeepers) to keep things looking that way.

Quote from: afish on January 30, 2023, 04:00 PM

I used led in extrusion and mortised that into a false bottom along with mortising in legrand plug mold so there is no outlets or switches in the back splash so I could use seamless back painted tempered glass or the backslash and not detract from the look with a bunch of outlets. and everything is flush on the bottom.

Love the look of a clean backsplash…not sure where you’re located but have you ever had any code-related issues with the plugmold strategy?

Quote from: kevinculle on January 30, 2023, 04:27 PM

I get my fixtures from Armacost Lighting

Armacost Lighting

and have been very satisfied with pricing and quality of hardware. I use LED puck lights under upper cabinets and they provide nice even illumination over the countertop surface.

Thanks for the rec! Definitely looks like a reasonable option.

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2023, 01:41 PM »

I've been dinging around with LED lighting for the last 10-12 years, some of it being used inside the house and some of it being used for outdoor garden lighting. This stuff has come a long way and I've learned a lot because the technology has changed a lot.

My last under-cabinet lighting project was done about 4-5 years ago. A run of kitchen cabinets with under-cabinet lighting that's used for both task lighting and dimmed for mood lighting. I used Diode LED Ultra Blaze LED tape secured in Diode LED Chromapath slim channel with a frosted cover. The Ultra Blaze LEDs put out 360 lumens per foot so they function well for task lighting...think food prep. I drove everything with a Diode LED Switchex driver. It's a combination switch/driver/dimmer in one small package that fits into a conventional electrical wall box. They're sold by output wattage and at the time they were available in 40, 60 & 100 watt models. They probably make several different variations by now.

Diode LED offers a variety of aluminum channels as does Aspect LED. However the largest variation of channels are offered by KLUS.

For the next go-around I'll be using a recessed version as the newer models are only 3/16"- 1/4" thick. This one is from Aspect LED.

Using the aluminum channel is important as it acts as a heat sink which lengthens the life of the LEDs especially Ultra Blaze which sucks up 4.3 watts per foot.

I also never use the standard push connectors...I learned the hard way, I solder direct connections to the LED strip.

Here's the Switchex driver.

eschumac · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2023, 01:49 PM »

+1 for the extrusions. I've found versions that take a double strip. In the past this was handy to get two offset strips to blend the light better. Newer strips have a higher density on them so it's less of an issue. However, running a CCT strip and an RGB strip can give some options for certain applications.

Jeremy140 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2023, 05:20 PM »

Hi. I am with Armacost Lighting. Thanks for the interest, FOG! We appreciate your support. As a thank you, you have a no limit, 20% off coupon when ordering on our website. Use FESTOOL23 at checkout or the link below. It is valid through the end of February, 2023. Enjoy! https://www.armacostlighting.com/discount/FESTOOL23

Cheese · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2023, 11:52 AM »

Quote from: Jeremy140 on February 02, 2023, 05:20 PM

Hi. I am with Armacost Lighting. Thanks for the interest, FOG! We appreciate your support. As a thank you, you have a no limit, 20% off coupon when ordering on our website. Use FESTOOL23 at checkout or the link below. It is valid through the end of February, 2023. Enjoy! https://www.armacostlighting.com/discount/FESTOOL23

@Jeremy140 Thanks for the 20% off coupon...that's certainly nice.

I went to your website but couldn't locate any aluminum extrusions, do you offer any?

Jeremy140 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2023, 11:56 AM »

Thanks @Cheese . We sure do! Several profiles and colors. Hopefully you find what you need here - https://www.armacostlighting.com/collections/led-channel-diffuse-tape-light/products/led-channel-strip-light-diffuser

rst · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2023, 12:45 PM »

I have 12v ac under cabinet lights from the early 90s powered by a landscape transformer. The lights are the bayonet type similar to auto pushins. Is there a converter led driver that I can power and replace the existing bulbs with leds?

neilc · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2023, 12:51 PM »

Quote from: Jeremy140 on February 03, 2023, 11:56 AM

Thanks @Cheese . We sure do! Several profiles and colors. Hopefully you find what you need here - https://www.armacostlighting.com/collections/led-channel-diffuse-tape-light/products/led-channel-strip-light-diffuser

I don't see the lengths of the channels on your product pages. Can you help?!

Jeremy140 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2023, 01:01 PM »

@neilc They are 5-packs of 1m / 39". Total length is 16.4'. Thanks for your interest!

Jeremy140 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2023, 01:05 PM »

Quote from: rst on February 03, 2023, 12:45 PM

I have 12v ac under cabinet lights from the early 90s powered by a landscape transformer. The lights are the bayonet type similar to auto pushins. Is there a converter led driver that I can power and replace the existing bulbs with leds?

@rst I can't speak to other brands, but most LED lights run on DC. Most likely you would need to change out your transformer too. The good news is the technology has come a long way since the 90's! The latest LED's output much cleaner light, run cooler, use less electricity and last 10,000's of hours. If you need configuration Technical Support, you can reach out to our support team here - https://www.armacostlighting.com/pages/contact

danny777d · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2023, 01:26 PM »

Quote from: eschumac on January 31, 2023, 01:49 PM

+1 for the extrusions. I've found versions that take a double strip. In the past this was handy to get two offset strips to blend the light better. Newer strips have a higher density on them so it's less of an issue. However, running a CCT strip and an RGB strip can give some options for certain applications.

FYI, there are new "COB" (chip on board) LED strips that completely solve this problem.

Cheese · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2023, 01:57 PM »

Quote from: rst on February 03, 2023, 12:45 PM

I have 12v ac under cabinet lights from the early 90s powered by a landscape transformer. The lights are the bayonet type similar to auto pushins. Is there a converter led driver that I can power and replace the existing bulbs with leds?

Oh that'll be an interesting journey...

1. You first need to identify the base type.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-light-bulbs-universal-finder

2. Then you need to decide on the LED emissivity direction, LED brightness and LED light color. This is an example of the options available for a 194 wedge base LED.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/led-light-bulbs-universal-finder/wedge-base-bulbs?base=85357
https://www.amazon.com/194-led-bulb/s?k=194+led+bulb

3. Once the LED bulb has been chosen, then you need to determine the current load of all of the LEDs which will then dictate the size of the driver you need. I exclusively use Mean Well AP Series or LP Series drivers both indoors & outdoors. They are small, inexpensive and reliable as all heck. I purchase them through Mouser.

https://www.meanwell.com/productSeries.aspx#tag-6-24

https://www.mouser.com/manufacturer/meanwell/

Having said this, you'll probably find it will be easier and cheaper to pull out the existing lighting and substitute LED strip lighting instead. The advent of strip lighting has really changed task lighting over the last 6-7 years, driven down the expense and increased the availability.

eschumac · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2023, 02:17 PM »

Quote from: rst on February 03, 2023, 12:45 PM

I have 12v ac under cabinet lights from the early 90s powered by a landscape transformer. The lights are the bayonet type similar to auto pushins. Is there a converter led driver that I can power and replace the existing bulbs with leds?

In most cases you can simply get an LED bulb off Amazon that can fit the socket without changing anything.

neilc · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2023, 05:20 PM »

I ordered three of their 12" long LED lights in 4K color. They snap together end to end either directly or with adapter wires to turn corners. Installed them under the tool cabinet over my bench. They work well. The transformer comes in either a dimmable or non-dimmable version. I ordered the non-dimmable version. I liked that both the load and line inputs are screw-based so you can cut the power cord and the cord to the LED strip to fit the installation.

Recommended!

tjbnwi · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2023, 06:31 PM »

My guess is the track is Juno Track 12.

These LED’s are a direct replacement, 12 VAC.

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/Juno-Tl214Led-30K-90Cri-Trac12-Led-Module-3K/6094736?gclid=CjwKCAiAu5agBhBzEiwAdiR5tG7wbSskGDSymzRhvOs_gDGGBlBQe7St666803pyLNp99Hqb9imyyBoCscUQAvD_BwE

Tom

neilc · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2023, 07:39 PM »

This is what I used - 3 of these

https://www.armacostlighting.com/products/rigidstrip-led-light-diffuser?variant=40534140223524

And the power supply:

https://www.armacostlighting.com/collections/12v-led-drivers?sort=manual

gamecock111 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2023, 07:04 PM »

I am redoing our kitchen cabinets now, and want to include something like this. I can wire in or plug, but no switch. I am ok with remote, but really would like to control mostly via automation. For example, come on at certain dim at x time of day.

Any recommendations for this kind of control ?

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neilc · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2023, 10:20 PM »

Take a look at Lutron Caseta - they offer both plugs and wall switches, small remotes or control from your phone. Easy to program with Apple HomeKit or Google Home on your phone and their app.

I have under counter lights connected to a wall switch that is a Lutron Caseta switch. I think that brand of smart home controls is one of the best around for flexibility, breadth of offerings, and support. Home Depot and Lowes carry them as does Amazon. Home automation is a slippery slope. I have smart switches in my kitchen or different banks, counter placed ‘Pico Remotes’ on Pedestals and wall switches. Same with a lot of other lights in my home. For lamps, I use their plug-in dimmer. If you have attic access, you could use a controllable dimmer plug in the attic where you place the transformer/controller.

A key consideration is if you want a dimmer as that brings on issues with the type of power supply you use. You might call the folks at Amacost above and chat with them.

Lee Valley also has a line of LED light strips and transformers. You might also call them.

LED strips are very inexpensive. You just want to make sure that your transformer and dimmer switches are compatible. My home had a pre-installed transformer and I wanted to control it with a Caseta wall switch. I had to install a capacitor between the leads that I only learned about by calling Caseta tech support. Now they work great.

Cheese · « **Reply #24 on:** March 07, 2023, 11:35 PM »

Quote from: gamecock111 on March 07, 2023, 07:04 PM

I am redoing our kitchen cabinets now, and want to include something like this. I can wire in or plug, but no switch. I am ok with remote, but really would like to control mostly via automation. For example, come on at certain dim at x time of d
Any recommendations for this kind of control ?

It really depends upon the form factor you desire, linear strips that are visible, linear strips that are hidden behind a valence, linear strips that are routed into the bottom of cabinets so that they're virtually invisible, puck lights that protrude, puck lights that are hidden behind a valence...what design of light distribution are you looking for? 10-15 years ago your options were limited, nowadays not so much.

Do you cook every evening and are looking to incorporate task lighting?

Do you entertain often and only need the lighting for ambiance?

Do you only need the lighting for navigating around the house when everything is shut down?

Do you rebuild automotive transmissions in the kitchen...just kidding.

gamecock111 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 08, 2023, 10:49 AM »

Thanks. I use Lutron Ra2 for portions of my house, but never got around to fully convert due to time and expense. Their offerings for this application confuse me so I keep putting this off.

Wife needs task lighting for cooking , etc., but I also want for ambience in the evening. I think dimming is a must. But, I do not want to install a switch for this. Ok, with pico remotes.

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