Author Topic: Tips for working with aluminum (Read 57016 times)

festal · « **Reply #90 on:** May 27, 2023, 07:28 AM »

Thanks for the links @Cheese
speaking of grinders. What grinder are you using for this? Looking to get one and currently researching

rvieceli · « **Reply #91 on:** May 27, 2023, 07:32 AM »

@Cheese Thanks so much for the info. I'll hold off ordering till I hear how they work for you.

They are also available in Roloc form as well

Ron

rvieceli · « **Reply #92 on:** May 27, 2023, 07:42 AM »

@festal I think cheese is using the Festool grinder, but I'm not sure.

I'm a big fan of Metabo grinders and am currently rocking a few of this model. I don't like to change disks so I keep a different wheel on each one. Strip disk, grinding wheel, wire brush, etc

https://beavertools.com/603624420-metabo-wp-11-125-quick-4-1-2-5in-angle-grinder.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw1MajBhAcEiwAagW9MVZXtC3oGbvMSFEfVLgBByafZXCWBv6vfZEh_ByM-nN6awJYG0A31RoCMKgQAvD_BwE

They make several different models including variable speed ones as well. This model is good quality and price.

I like the safety switch models, have to keep the paddle switch depressed to keep it running. Kind of a dead man switch.

Ron

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #93 on:** May 27, 2023, 07:47 AM »

@Cheese I'll be interested in your results with those disks. The 3M selection I was able to find on Amazon was underwhelming and I never put in the energy to search further. Mostly I'm using disks from the local-ish industrial supply, the carry SAIT and similar options. Hughes looks like a good source for 3M.

RE: working with AL, I've needed some pre-sized blanks for making misc. parts with Origin and found the best approach was old school, cut them with the saw and grind to final size. Made sense to make a jig.

A few years ago I filed the front edge of the grinder table to make it parallel with the disk. The first (rightmost) guide gets set with the jig a few thou off of the disk. The screws holding the guide in the slot are loose, so the jig can move in and out until it hits the hard stop.

With the hard stop set, you use a gage block to set the fence.

I use a 10 thou shim when setting the fence, to leave the final part oversized, then file/lap it to final dimension. Should'a made this years ago.

Looking forward to your report on the 3M disks.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #94 on:** May 27, 2023, 09:18 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 27, 2023, 07:28 AM

Thanks for the links @Cheese
speaking of grinders. What grinder are you using for this? Looking to get one and currently researching

I have a corded Milwaukee that AEG made that is variable speed, a Milwaukee M18 cordless single speed and recently the AGC 18 which is variable speed. Like Ron mentioned, I also keep different discs/wheels on each grinder, it really does speed up the process.

The Festool grinder is smoother & quieter than both of the Milwaukee grinders. Then again, the AEG is 24 years old and the Milwaukee cordless is 9 years old, maybe that's part of the issue.

I also had a German made Metabo that I really liked but it grew legs one night and walked out of the garage.

rvieceli · « **Reply #95 on:** May 27, 2023, 09:59 AM »

The country of origin on the Metabo I linked to is Germany.

festal · « **Reply #96 on:** May 27, 2023, 10:00 AM »

I'm thinking of getting one of the M18 ones since i already have few batteries for it. i also have an old craftsman corded one that i can keep as well

Cheese · « **Reply #97 on:** May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM »

That's a real nice jig you made Richard

I just may have to copy that.

Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

rst · « **Reply #98 on:** May 27, 2023, 10:14 AM »

While I don’t have near as many grinders as routers, in 50 years I’ve got a few. I have two old B&D corded from the 70s - 80s when they making industrial tools. I had those for commercial door and locksmithing. Diamond blade in one cutting blade in the other. Bought an M18 Milwaukee when they came out. Recently got two Metabos, a low slope nose and a six inch, both 18v. The Metabos are fantastic tools, I’m going to sell the Milwaukee

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #99 on:** May 27, 2023, 10:51 AM »

@Cheese what do you call that special nut (that you can remove by hand) on your grinder in the other thread?

Cheese · « **Reply #100 on:** May 27, 2023, 11:38 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on May 27, 2023, 10:51 AM

@Cheese what do you call that special nut (that you can remove by hand) on your grinder in the other thread?

Michael are you talking about this nut? If so it's the Festool quick release nut they provide with the AGC 18. I also added one to both of my Milwaukee RA grinders.

Interesting that Milwaukee thought it was important to include that style nut on this 19 year old Milwaukee abrasive saw yet they didn't provide it on their newer RA grinders.

rvieceli · « **Reply #101 on:** May 27, 2023, 01:16 PM »

Michael the style of nut is available from a lot of vendors online and if you gave a Home Depot nearby.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-Fixtec-Tool-Free-Grinder-Flange-Nut-49-40-2783/308642822

Ron

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #102 on:** May 27, 2023, 05:52 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM

That's a real nice jig you made Richard I just may have to copy that. Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

Thanks. Yes, cut with Origin on the WorkStation with and o-flute. It's been greeting a regular diet of 6061 lately.

RMW

festal · « **Reply #103 on:** May 27, 2023, 08:06 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 05:52 PM

Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM
That's a real nice jig you made Richard I just may have to copy that. Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

Thanks. Yes, cut with Origin on the WorkStation with and o-flute. It's been greeting a regular diet of 6061 lately.

RMW

Still trying to figure out how its used lol

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #104 on:** May 27, 2023, 09:13 PM »

Quote from: festal on May 27, 2023, 08:06 PM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 05:52 PM
Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM
That's a real nice jig you made Richard I just may have to copy that. Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

Thanks. Yes, cut with Origin on the WorkStation with and o-flute. It's been greeting a regular diet of 6061 lately.

RMW

Still trying to figure out how its used lol

Not sure I can do this with words.

Say I am starting with a piece of bar stock that varies from 39 to 41mm over a 100mm length, and I need to finish at 38.1mm over the length. With the hard stop against the grinder front esdge I'd use a 38.1mm gage block pushed against the disk to set the fence. The hard stop prevents the jig for moving any closer to the disk but it can slide further away.

With the rough stock clamped against the fence there is between 0.9 and 1.9mm hanging over the front edge and the hard stop is not touching the front edge of the grinder. I just grind that stock away until the hard stop prevents any further movement towards the disk and the stock is now the same size as the dimension the fence was set to.

Make any sense? A 10 second video would make it clear.

RMW

tsmi243 · « **Reply #105 on:** May 27, 2023, 09:32 PM »

What does the bar inside the miter slot do?

And is that a diy disc sander? Much nicer table than I'm used to seeing. I love cast iron....

festal · « **Reply #106 on:** May 27, 2023, 10:11 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 09:13 PM

Quote from: festal on May 27, 2023, 08:06 PM
Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 05:52 PM
Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM
That's a real nice jig you made Richard I just may have to copy that. Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

Thanks. Yes, cut with Origin on the WorkStation with and o-flute. It's been greeting a regular diet of 6061 lately.

RMW

Still trying to figure out how its used lol

Not sure I can do this with words.

Say I am starting with a piece of bar stock that varies from 39 to 41mm over a 100mm length, and I need to finish at 38.1mm over the length. With the hard stop against the grinder front esdge I'd use a 38.1mm gage block pushed against the disk to set the fence. The hard stop prevents the jig for moving any closer to the disk but it can slide further away.

With the rough stock clamped against the fence there is between 0.9 and 1.9mm hanging over the front edge and the hard stop is not touching the front edge of the grinder. I just grind that stock away until the hard stop prevents any further movement towards the disk and the stock is now the same size as the dimension the fence was set to.

Make any sense? A 10 second video would make it clear.

RMW

It does. Video would be great. Also have same question as above. About the jig itself. And filing the table front. What does that do?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #107 on:** May 28, 2023, 06:45 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 27, 2023, 10:11 PM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 09:13 PM
Quote from: festal on May 27, 2023, 08:06 PM
Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 27, 2023, 05:52 PM
Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 10:09 AM
That's a real nice jig you made Richard I just may have to copy that. Was the slotting done with the Shaper Origin? I really like the hold down feature, simple but effective, very clever.

Thanks. Yes, cut with Origin on the WorkStation with and o-flute. It's been greeting a regular diet of 6061 lately.

RMW

Still trying to figure out how its used lol

Not sure I can do this with words.

Say I am starting with a piece of bar stock that varies from 39 to 41mm over a 100mm length, and I need to finish at 38.1mm over the length. With the hard stop against the grinder front esdge I'd use a 38.1mm gage block pushed against the disk to set the fence. The hard stop prevents the jig for moving any closer to the disk but it can slide further away.

With the rough stock clamped against the fence there is between 0.9 and 1.9mm hanging over the front edge and the hard stop is not touching the front edge of the grinder. I just grind that stock away until the hard stop prevents any further movement towards the disk and the stock is now the same size as the dimension the fence was set to.

Make any sense? A 10 second video would make it clear.

RMW
It does. Video would be great. Also have same question as above. About the jig itself. And filing the table front. What does that do?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The front edge needed to be absolutely parallel with the disk to use it as reference. The casting was slightly rough so I had to grind and file it slightly until it was smooth and consistent.

I'll see about a video, I'm not set up for anything other than phone so it wouldn't be pretty...

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #108 on:** May 28, 2023, 07:03 AM »

Quote from: tsmi243 on May 27, 2023, 09:32 PM

What does the bar inside the miter slot do?

And is that a diy disc sander? Much nicer table than I'm used to seeing. I love cast iron....

It's a 25 year old Delta 12" sander. Import but a really nice tool that gets tons of use, IIRC it was my first marital Xmas gift.

The screws holding that bar are tightened with the hard stop against the table edge before setting the fence with a gage block. Then loosen the screws so the jig can move away from the disk and the excess material to be ground off hangs over the front edge.

The jig is intended for removing the last couple mm from rough cut stock to end up with precision parts. It there is more than a mm or two of stock to remove I'll free hand it first then take the last little bit off using the jig.

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #109 on:** May 28, 2023, 07:14 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on May 27, 2023, 11:38 AM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on May 27, 2023, 10:51 AM
@Cheese what do you call that special nut (that you can remove by hand) on your grinder in the other thread?

Michael are you talking about this nut? If so it's the Festool quick release nut they provide with the AGC 18. I also added one to both of my Milwaukee RA grinders.

(Attachment Link)

Interesting that Milwaukee thought it was important to include that style nut on this 19 year old Milwaukee abrasive saw yet they didn't provide it on their newer RA grinders.

(Attachment Link)

@Cheese does the Festool angle grinder offer any benefit that justify the cost premium over a yellow or red one?

The handle orientation looks good for cutting but then it's sideways for most grinding, the opposite of common right-angle grinders.

None of my grinders have variable speed, but I'm not sure I miss/need it.

RMW

festal · « **Reply #110 on:** May 28, 2023, 07:33 AM »

@Richard/RMW which one is the hard stop? one riding in the groove or the one against the edge of the table?

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #111 on:** May 28, 2023, 07:43 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 28, 2023, 07:33 AM

@Richard/RMW which one is the hard stop? one riding in the groove or the one against the edge of the table?

Against the table edge. The bar in the groove is only used when setting the fence.

I'll try to cobble together a video today.

RMW

festal · « **Reply #112 on:** May 28, 2023, 07:54 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 28, 2023, 07:43 AM

Quote from: festal on May 28, 2023, 07:33 AM
@Richard/RMW which one is the hard stop? one riding in the groove or the one against the edge of the table?

Against the table edge. The bar in the groove is only used when setting the fence.

I'll try to cobble together a video today.

Thank you

RMW

rvieceli · « **Reply #113 on:** May 28, 2023, 09:04 AM »

Richard - Don't you have a mini mill? Couldn't you make those by standing them on edge in the mill vise and running them under a cutter?

Is it not rigid enough to hold the tolerances you need?

Ron

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #114 on:** May 28, 2023, 09:21 AM »

Quote from: rvieceli on May 28, 2023, 09:04 AM

Richard - Don't you have a mini mill? Couldn't you make those by standing them on edge in the mill vise and running them under a cutter?

Is it not rigid enough to hold the tolerances you need?

Ron

Used to Ron, but no longer, no room. I'd love to have space for a decent mill and small (not mini) lathe.

This setup actually works really well, takes longer to explain than to use it. I keep 1/2, 3/8 & 1/4 bar stock on hand from 1-4" and the little 20V portaband make short work of lopping off a chunk. I was just hand marking, grinding and filing too much, which led to making the jig.

I haven't needed to do it yet but setting the fence at an angle simlarly makes it fast and easy to make precise angled parts. A lot of this is due to the recent dawning on me that setting a stop or fence using gage blocks is so much more accurate than measuring or using a built in scale. It was kinda a head-slapper what-took-me-so-long moment.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #115 on:** May 28, 2023, 09:50 AM »

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

I'm going to have to measure my Jet and see how parallel the front edge is to the platen surface. I need to change the abrasive disc anyways.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #116 on:** May 28, 2023, 10:05 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on May 28, 2023, 09:50 AM

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

@Cheese there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

Quote from: Cheese on May 28, 2023, 09:50 AM

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

festal · « **Reply #117 on:** May 28, 2023, 10:39 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 28, 2023, 10:05 AM

Quote from: Cheese on May 28, 2023, 09:50 AM
Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

@Cheese there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

Quote from: Cheese on May 28, 2023, 09:50 AM
The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheese · « **Reply #118 on:** May 28, 2023, 10:48 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on May 28, 2023, 10:05 AM

@Cheese there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

Thanks for the SO thread

that's really interesting. I'd never have thought those little parts could be fabricated with a router...they seem squarely within the realm of milling machine work. Good job, I guess necessity is the mother of invention.

Cheese · « **Reply #119 on:** May 28, 2023, 10:53 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 28, 2023, 10:39 AM

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

If I were to guess, it'd be a standard sized gauge block along with some feeler stock.

So setting to 18.1 mm would be an 18 mm block along with some .004" feeler gauge stock...just a guess.