Author Topic: Tips for working with aluminum (Read 57018 times)

Cheese · « **Reply #60 on:** August 16, 2022, 12:29 PM »

Ran across this tap drill chart from Travers. I like that they give you tap hole diameters for both 75% & 50% threads. I usually shoot for 60% because it's the best of both worlds.

The last chart shown is also nice because it has both metric & imperial sizes combined into a single chart.

https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/5257956/Content%20Guides%20And%20Downloadable%20PDFs/Content%20Guide%20Thumbnails/Tap_Drill_Chart.pdf?__hstc=140417324.8042ce158be06ed73296bba5baca868f.1660058875562.1660058875562.1660662466409.2&__hssc=140417324.2.1660662466409&__hsfp=246074716&hsCtaTracking=418feaed-4426-456d-890f-3bb8a14dff61%7C21b17b9f-d503-493b-b73a-6ed16dc79430

Cheese · « **Reply #61 on:** October 25, 2022, 11:18 AM »

I'm a fan of flap wheels for deburring/grinding metals. I favor 3M Cubitron and Pferd discs because they last so long and are consistent throughout their lifetime.

About 3 months ago I needed something in a hurry so I purchased a handful of the CGW brand. They worked well but didn't seem to last as long as they should.

I recently purchased some more Pferd wheels and decided to compare the 2 brands. This surprised me.

A CGW for steel, A CGW for stainless & a Pferd for stainless.

Another item I noticed immediately is that there are at least twice as many filaments in the support structure on the Pferd wheel. I don't know if that's necessary but it does make me feel better and it again helps to explain some of the price difference between the wheels of $3.75 vs $5.00.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #62 on:** October 25, 2022, 06:08 PM »

Thanks Cheese. As usual, you get what you pay for.

Cheese · « **Reply #63 on:** October 26, 2022, 12:55 PM »

Got an email from Travers today to download their tap drill chart for both imperial & metric threads.

https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/5257956/Content%20Guides%20And%20Downloadable%20PDFs/Content%20Guide%20Thumbnails/Tap_Drill_Chart.pdf?__hstc=140417324.0ddac9622b518526834a09d11f33a6a6.1666722508561.1666722508561.1666800533419.2&__hssc=140417324.4.1666800533419&__hsfp=833781297&hsCtaTracking=418feaed-4426-456d-890f-3bb8a14dff61%7C21b17b9f-d503-493b-b73a-6ed16dc79430

Cheese · « **Reply #64 on:** December 10, 2022, 12:30 PM »

Just ran across these 2 new thin kerf CMT metal blades for the TSC 55 K. One for non-ferrous materials and the other for Stainless, now that last item is completely new for the 55 series saws. Previously it was only the 75 series that were available with steel cutting blades.

And here are a couple of regular kerf CMT metal blades for the 55 series saws. One for thin steel and one for thick steel.

And finally, here's the CMT PCD Diamond blade for cementitious materials that's been around for years. I have the 4 tooth version on an HKC and it works well. The newer 10 tooth version would be interesting to try out.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #65 on:** December 17, 2022, 02:47 PM »

The AL blade is interesting, I've had my little DW battery chop saw pretty much dedicated to AL all year. Been cutting a lot of 8020. Cheap blade from Amazon has been working great.

It's good to see blades coming out for the TSC K, I'm still using the stock one including trimming a little 1/4" 6061.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #66 on:** December 20, 2022, 02:06 PM »

Travers sent me this today, it takes a lot of the goofiness out of trying to identify/understand the various carbide inserts.

https://5257956.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/5257956/Content%20Guides%20And%20Downloadable%20PDFs/Insert%20Identification%20Reference.pdf?__hstc=140417324.475f50fb3357f44235b927b653166d49.1671465423309.1671465423309.1671562233922.2&__hssc=140417324.2.1671562233922&__hsfp=2128657929&hsCtaTracking=2196bc4b-e547-41bf-8bff-ac90c1bd6261%7C04bb5082-0a63-41f3-a297-c3eec2fdce10

tsmi243 · « **Reply #67 on:** January 09, 2023, 11:16 AM »

Anything special about drilling aluminum extrusions?

I'm trying to put an LR32 hole pattern in a piece of T-track, but the Festool bits aren't biting. They just scribe little bullseyes on the surface.

Switching to the pointed LR32 bit and pre-drilling a pilot hole solves that problem, but the holes are now a really loose fit for shelf pins.

Cheese · « **Reply #68 on:** January 09, 2023, 12:38 PM »

Quote from: tsmi243 on January 09, 2023, 11:16 AM

1. Anything special about drilling aluminum extrusions?

2. I'm trying to put an LR32 hole pattern in a piece of T-track, but the Festool bits aren't biting. They just scribe little bullseyes on the surface.

3. Switching to the pointed LR32 bit and pre-drilling a pilot hole solves that problem, but the holes are now a really loose fit for shelf pins.

Will this be a long series of 5 mm holes or just a few?

1. You'll definitely want to use a lubricant with the drill bit, it can be a solid or liquid lubricant, I prefer isopropyl alcohol when drilling aluminum but be advised that IPA is flammable so take the necessary precautions. The lubricant will significantly reduce the wear on the drill bit but more importantly it will maintain a uniform hole diameter.

2. The bit you're describing has 2 sharp spurs on the outer edges so they will mark the hole diameter but they will not punch through the aluminum because of the design of the front cutting edge.

3. I'd use the pointed LR32 bit just to mark the center of each hole. I'd then follow up with selecting the proper sized bit needed to fit the pins, that's the experimental work.

Drill bits will usually drill oversized holes unless the drill bit itself is physically undersized. So it's not unusual to have that 5 mm drill bit produce a 5.1 mm hole or larger.

Here's a webpage from Travers that offers various sized metric drill bits. These are powdered metal while also being TiN & TiCN coated so they're very very spendy. Small metric drill bits are usually available in .1 mm sizes and if you stick with the TiN coating, that again will help maintain a uniform hole diameter.

https://www.travers.com/product/nachi-l7574p-metric-sg-coated-jobber-length-drills-498912?categoryIds=1778

The larger tooling houses usually stock all the various sizes. Another option I use is MSC Direct.

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Drilling-Drill-Bits/Metalworking-Multipurpose-Drill-Bits/Jobber-Length-Drill-Bits?mscNew=true&navid=2106186

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #69 on:** January 09, 2023, 02:18 PM »

@tsmi243 are you trying to use a router bit to drill holes in the aluminum t-track?

Maybe you should go to 1/4” pins and use a real 1/4” drill bit in a 1/4” collet?

tsmi243 · « **Reply #70 on:** January 09, 2023, 03:57 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 09, 2023, 12:38 PM

3. I'd use the pointed LR32 bit just to mark the center of each hole. I'd then follow up with selecting the proper sized bit

May have to do it that way. I was hoping to one-shot this with the LR32, but I'm guessing a 4.9mm router bit isn't going to be easy to find! Thanks for the suggestion, I got a 4.8 and a 4.9 coming this week.

Quote from: Michael Kellough on January 09, 2023, 02:18 PM

@tsmi243 are you trying to use a router bit to drill holes in the aluminum t-track?

Maybe you should go to 1/4” pins and use a real 1/4” drill bit in a 1/4” collet?

Yep, drilling the aluminum with the router.

For pins, I could use anything in any size. I just have lots of 5mm shelf pins handy, and the 5mm bit is already in the router. So that was the first attempt.

I was surprised that the bits won't touch the aluminum. I've had great results doing edge routing before. I'm not sure why drilling would be any different. I was wondering if the anodizing was the reason. I'll try sanding some off, and see if they bite then.

rmhinden · « **Reply #71 on:** January 09, 2023, 04:30 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 10, 2022, 12:30 PM

Just ran across these 2 new thin kerf CMT metal blades for the TSC 55 K. One for non-ferrous materials and the other for Stainless, now that last item is completely new for the 55 series saws. Previously it was only the 75 series that were available with steel cutting blades.

What do you recommend for a blade to cut aluminum for a Kapex?

Bob

Cheese · « **Reply #72 on:** January 09, 2023, 09:48 PM »

Quote from: rmhinden on January 09, 2023, 04:30 PM

What do you recommend for a blade to cut aluminum for a Kapex?

I purchased the Kapex aluminum blade when it was still being offered by Festool. Don't know what happened in corporate circles but at some point in time, Festool corporate/marketing obviously had a melt down when they suddenly decided to discontinue the aluminum blade along with the spark arrestor. Which makes no sense at all, as if you just move a few years forward, and they now offer an aluminum blade for hand saws...riddle me this, what is more dangerous, a hand guided saw or a fixed pivot chop saw?

The original Festool item is P/N 495386 if you're fortunate enough to find one. Another FOG member RST uses the Amana line of saw blades from Toolstoday.

rmhinden · « **Reply #73 on:** January 10, 2023, 02:57 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 09, 2023, 09:48 PM

The original Festool item is P/N 495386 if you're fortunate enough to find one. Another FOG member RST uses the Amana line of saw blades from Toolstoday.

@Cheese Thanks!

I looked up Festool 495386 and it came up with "Saw Blade LAMINATE/HPL HW 260X2,5X30 TF64".

I then looked around the Festool site (should have done that earlier) and found what looks like a Kapex blade for cutting Aluminum. Part number 494607. See:

Saw blade ALUMINIUM/PLASTICS HW 260x2,4x30 TF68

I assume that is the right one.

Looks like I can get it from Amazon UK for about $106 plus tax.

Bob

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #74 on:** January 10, 2023, 05:38 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 09, 2023, 09:48 PM

Quote from: rmhinden on January 09, 2023, 04:30 PM

What do you recommend for a blade to cut aluminum for a Kapex?

Another FOG member RST uses the Amana line of saw blades from Toolstoday.

I've had good luck with Oshlun for both AL & Steel. Their non-ferrous Kapex blade is available on Big A.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #75 on:** January 10, 2023, 01:05 PM »

Quote from: rmhinden on January 10, 2023, 02:57 AM

I looked up Festool 495386 and it came up with "Saw Blade LAMINATE/HPL HW 260X2,5X30 TF64".

I then looked around the Festool site (should have done that earlier) and found what looks like a Kapex blade for cutting Aluminum. Part number 494607. See:

Saw blade ALUMINIUM/PLASTICS HW 260x2,4x30 TF68

I assume that is the right one.

Looks like I can get it from Amazon UK for about $106 plus tax.

Bob

Sorry Bob I gave you the wrong number...it should have been 495385.

But this whole thing does bring up an interesting point as Festool in 2016 decided to obsolete their metal cutting blades for not only the Kapex, but also the TS 55. That's the reason I purchased this 495385 blade back in late 2016. Here's the blade...

At the time, this 495385 blade along with 3 other blades were newly released and on the front of the package it refers to the blade it replaced the 494607. Here's the front of the package.

Here's the rear of the package.

So the way this story reads is that the 494607 was replaced by the 495385 to then be replaced by the 494607.

Weird, as both blades appear to have exactly the same specs dimensionally in addition to grind geometries. At any rate, it seems like you're good to go.

The Amazon price also seems cheap because I paid Amazon $150 for the 495385 blade back in 2016.

tsmi243 · « **Reply #76 on:** January 10, 2023, 04:39 PM »

LR32 followup- It's not the aluminum, it's the bit. The pointy one. I switched back to MDF, and the flat tip bit works fine, but the pointy one drills oversize.

Soooo back to the drill press, I guess. I think spotting the holes with the LR32 is the best I'm gonna get.

Cheese · « **Reply #77 on:** March 01, 2023, 04:57 PM »

This may be of interest, especially the spiral flute tap that's been previously talked about.

https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/5257956/Content%20Guides%20And%20Downloadable%20PDFs/Tapping_Right.pdf

rvieceli · « **Reply #78 on:** March 01, 2023, 05:41 PM »

Like Richard I’ve had good luck with Oshlun blades for steel and aluminum. They make a wide variety of sizes and arbor sizes as well.

They are generally available on Amazon.

@Cheese im very fond of my spiral taps for bottoming tapping. It was always a hassle to extract swarf from the hole after using a regular bottoming tap. These keep the chips coming out the top.

Ron

Cheese · « **Reply #79 on:** May 10, 2023, 12:52 PM »

Here's a 3M Abrasive Solutions brochure that showed up in my mailbox this morning. It discusses Roloc Discs, abrasive belts, Scotch-Brite pads and Cubitron flap wheels.

https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/5257956/Content%20Guides%20And%20Downloadable%20PDFs/3M_Abrasives_Guide.pdf?__hstc=140417324.936935434c7c7d4e56e400ebdda117e0.1683221900122.1683221900122.1683733401120.2&__hssc=140417324.3.1683733401120&__hsfp=1091543274&hsCtaTracking=97609617-45c1-444b-8192-6bc8e993c354%7Cc697f060-a2de-4de7-9858-7056dc3bd650

Cheese · « **Reply #80 on:** May 17, 2023, 01:01 PM »

Here are 3 catalogs that 3M has produced that deal with abrasives for RA grinders. The Scotch-Brite™ Clean and Strip XT Pro discs are something that are new.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1569068O/scotch-brite-clean-and-strip-xt-pro-and-pro-extra-cut-brochure.pdf

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1017953O/3m-abrasives-for-right-angle-system-the-right-choice-brochure.pdf

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1273214O/3m-abrasives-for-right-angle-tools-field-guide-brochure.pdf

tsmi243 · « **Reply #81 on:** May 17, 2023, 04:56 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on May 17, 2023, 01:01 PM

The Scotch-Brite™ Clean and Strip XT Pro discs are something that are new.

I ordered some a few days ago. They're supposed to be really good for mill scale removal. I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheese · « **Reply #82 on:** May 18, 2023, 01:22 PM »

Quote from: tsmi243 on May 17, 2023, 04:56 PM

Quote from: Cheese on May 17, 2023, 01:01 PM
The Scotch-Brite™ Clean and Strip XT Pro discs are something that are new.

I ordered some a few days ago. They're supposed to be really good for mill scale removal. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks...I also ordered a couple as I want to remove some lime/calcium deposits from stainless. I ordered both Silicon Carbide & Aluminum Oxide versions and will be using them in an AGC 18.

Cheese · « **Reply #83 on:** May 25, 2023, 10:10 PM »

I received 3 Scotch-Brite™ 36 grit discs today. I tried out the glass fiber backed version which has a molded in 5/8-11 screw thread. It's very nice and very solid however, it is also very aggressive. That's not a big deal for steel items that will be powder coated, but it may be an issue for stainless issues left naked or for aluminum substrates. I'd like to see this item offered in a 60-80 grit version.

All of these discs are 36 grit, 2 with the TN designation (Tinnerman nut) and one with the molded in 5/8-11 screw threads. The differences between the discs is they are manufactured from either Aluminum Oxide or Silicon Carbide abrasives.

The non-Tinnerman nut disc was initially my favorite because there is no tangential run-out of the disc. The Tinnerman nut version produces a tangential runout because of the way it's manufactured. There is a pricing difference of 50 cents between the different styles which could be an issue if thousands of these discs were used per year...think automotive body shops.

The molded thread version is really nice, it glides along the surface and it would be my go-to disc. I plan on trying the Tinnerman nut version tomorrow and see how that goes. I expect the Tinnerman nut version to produce a weird machining pattern because of its constantly changing depth dimension. These photos may help.

In order of viewing...the fiberglass backer version with molded in 5/8"-11 threads, the TN versions which obviously have a serious offset...we'll find out how that affects the performance.

festal · « **Reply #84 on:** May 26, 2023, 07:33 AM »

So I have a Ridgid oscilating sander that has 4" x 24" belt attachment and been trying to find scotch-brite belts for it. Seems maverick abrrasives have them but only in quantity of 6 or more for each grit. Also mcmaster has them but at $40 each belt.
Any other places where i can get them decently priced?

Also what grit do people recommend to get? Medium, Fine, Ultra fine? basically for rust removal, getting rid of scratches etc on tools that I find and clean up lol.

Cheese · « **Reply #85 on:** May 26, 2023, 10:48 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 26, 2023, 07:33 AM

So I have a Ridgid oscilating sander that has 4" x 24" belt attachment and been trying to find scotch-brite belts for it. Seems maverick abrrasives have them but only in quantity of 6 or more for each grit. Also mcmaster has them but at $40 each belt.
Any other places where i can get them decently priced?

Also what grit do people recommend to get? Medium, Fine, Ultra fine? basically for rust removal, getting rid of scratches etc on tools that I find and clean up lol.

I've been very happy with these people. They usually have everything in stock at one or several of their warehouses. Reasonably priced and USUALLY purchasable in quantities of 1.

The items will show up at the house within 2-3 days.

I haven't had great luck with 3M Scotch-Brite or Dynabrade DynaBrite belts because if too much heat is generated, the adhesive that holds the ends together usually releases. For that reason I try to use Scotch-Brite products in a non-belt form like discs, flap wheels or hand pads.

These are traditional abrasive belts.
https://www.rshughes.com/c/Sanding-Belts/1126/?fn.1=Belt%20Width&fv.1=4%20in&fn.2=Brand&fv.2=3M&fn.3=Belt%20Length&fv.3=24%20in

festal · « **Reply #86 on:** May 26, 2023, 10:52 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on May 26, 2023, 10:48 AM

Quote from: festal on May 26, 2023, 07:33 AM
So I have a Ridgid oscilating sander that has 4" x 24" belt attachment and been trying to find scotch-brite belts for it. Seems maverick abrrasives have them but only in quantity of 6 or more for each grit. Also mcmaster has them but at $40 each belt.
Any other places where i can get them decently priced?

Also what grit do people recommend to get? Medium, Fine, Ultra fine? basically for rust removal, getting rid of scratches etc on tools that I find and clean up lol.

Thank you for the info. I just checked the link you posted and scotch brite version is over $400 lol. but good to know about the belt version

I've been very happy with these people. They usually have everything in stock at one or several of their warehouses. Reasonably priced and USUALLY purchasable in quantities of 1. The items will show up at the house within 2-3 days.

I haven't had great luck with 3M Scotch-Brite or Dynabrade DynaBrite belts because if too much heat is generated, the adhesive that holds the ends together usually releases. For that reason I try to use Scotch-Brite products in a non-belt form like discs, flap wheels or hand pads.

These are traditional abrasive belts.
https://www.rshughes.com/c/Sanding-Belts/1126/?fn.1=Belt%20Width&fv.1=4%20in&fn.2=Brand&fv.2=3M&fn.3=Belt%20Length&fv.3=24%20in

Cheese · « **Reply #87 on:** May 26, 2023, 11:18 AM »

Quote from: festal on May 26, 2023, 10:52 AM

Thank you for the info. I just checked the link you posted and scotch brite version is over $400 lol. but good to know about the belt version

I just placed an order for some of these to use on a RA grinder. They use hook & loop to attach to a backing pad. They can be purchased in single pieces. They are Scotch-Brite non-woven material loaded with precision shaped ceramic grains.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/dc/v101337474/

rvieceli · « **Reply #88 on:** May 26, 2023, 04:50 PM »

@Cheese do you have a link for those and the adapter for the grinder with hook and loop.

Ron

Cheese · « **Reply #89 on:** May 27, 2023, 01:41 AM »

Quote from: rvieceli on May 26, 2023, 04:50 PM

@Cheese do you have a link for those and the adapter for the grinder with hook and loop.

Ron

Hey Ron @rvieceli , here's a copy of the invoice. The pad is item #4 638060-89871 and the discs are items #5-#9. Each disc can be ordered individually which is really a God-send.

These are 5" diameter discs, 4-1/2" discs and pads are also available.

I will say I have no previous experience with this system. Thus I'm hoping that I've ordered the correct items.

I should receive these items early next week as they've already been sent out...order on Friday and ship on Friday...what's not to like.

I'd be happy to weigh in once i receive the items to verify that everything plays well together.

Here's a link to the pad and to the discs.

https://www.rshughes.com/p/3M-Scotch-Brite-Universal-Surface-Conditioning-Back-Up-Pad-Hook-Loop-Attachment-5-In-Diameter-Contains-Three-Different-Attachment-Nuts-M10-M14-And-5-8-11-As-Well-As-Optional-Snap-In-Center-Post-89871/638060_89871/

https://www.rshughes.com/p/3M-Scotch-Brite-PN-DH-Precision-Surface-Conditioning-Hook-Loop-Disc-89242-Precision-Shaped-Ceramic-5-In-Coarse/638060_89242/