Author Topic: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws  (Read 3334 times)

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Offline ForumMFG

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Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« on: December 30, 2020, 05:47 PM »
Look for #8 flat heads that are tamper proof / security screws.  But for wood.  You can find all the machine screws and sheet metals screws. But i can’t find an ones for wood.  Anyone have a source?

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Offline afish

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2020, 06:15 PM »
did you check mcmaster carr?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2020, 07:04 PM »
In the past I’ve used regular stainless sheet metal screws for this function. Currently, I have cast aluminum out door lights being held to cedar plinths for the last 10 years. Just make sure to properly size the holes to the fasteners.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2020, 11:55 PM »


    ^^  I agree, sheet metal screws hold well in wood too.


Seth

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2020, 06:24 AM »
did you check mcmaster carr?

I did.  No wood screws

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2020, 06:26 AM »
In the past I’ve used regular stainless sheet metal screws for this function. Currently, I have cast aluminum out door lights being held to cedar plinths for the last 10 years. Just make sure to properly size the holes to the fasteners.

I’ve done that before too and that will be my last resort. 

Offline fuzzy logic

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2020, 06:47 AM »
Hi. Wonder if these people might be able to help:
https://www.fastenright.com/products/security-fasteners/security-screws/security-wood-screws 

The images shown on the web-page, don't have a conventional wood type thread - but maybe useable for your purpose?

Richard (UK)

(Edit: appreciate you may have already checked them out...)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 06:49 AM by fuzzy logic »
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline afish

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2020, 06:53 AM »
did you check mcmaster carr?

I did.  No wood screws

Have you considered using a threaded insert in the wood so you can use tamper proof machine screws?  I dont ever recall seeing tamper proof wood screws but its not something I looked for either.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2020, 10:02 AM »
I’ve done that before too and that will be my last resort.

The actual thread form isn't really that different between sheet metal & wood screws. If however, you're talking about traditional tapered wood screws that are used in boat building, well then that's a different thing.

Fastenal used to offer a lot of tamper proof screws.

Offline WastedP

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2020, 10:11 AM »
I second Fastenal.  I used them (years ago) for security torx coarse thread, long shank screws with the slim finish heads.  These were used for securing furniture to walls and floors in a psychiatric treatment facility.  After installation, I was required to fill the screw heads with a Sika pick-proof adhesive that was customer provided.  I pity the poor workers that ever need to remove any of it.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2020, 10:27 AM »
maybe this is a tangent, but isn't a tamper proof screw for wood just called a nail?

If it is something that has to be removable, there are no tamperproof screws, someone makes a tool for all of them.  But as others have said, metal screws work just the same, or the insert with a machine screw (that will give you all the options).

Online Oldwood

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2020, 11:50 AM »
One thing I have seen done is to pound lead or some other soft metal into the screw head socket.

If you need to remove the screws you can heat with micro torch and pick out the lead.

 
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Offline Imemiter

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2020, 11:52 AM »
maybe this is a tangent, but isn't a tamper proof screw for wood just called a nail?

Ha! A spiral ring shank.  [big grin]
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Offline Chris Wong

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2021, 02:53 AM »
there are no tamperproof screws, someone makes a tool for all of them.
I have seen many public washroom stalls put together with unidirectional screws that allow no purchase in the counterclockwise direction. However, pliers might do the trick.


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Offline Alex

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 05:34 AM »
there are no tamperproof screws, someone makes a tool for all of them.
I have seen many public washroom stalls put together with unidirectional screws that allow no purchase in the counterclockwise direction. However, pliers might do the trick.

Those things are to prevent two things, vandalism and burglary. A determined burglar has no problem circumventing such measures, but the average vandal can't touch them. 

Online Bohdan

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2021, 06:20 AM »
For a long time I was involved with securing equipment in an educational environment and we found that the only screw head that was readily available in metal thread nuts and bolts and sheet metal screws that could defeat most attacks was the Tri-groove. It's not available in a flat head version but if it is fitted in a recess then only the correct tool can remove it.

The correct tools are not sold in the usual (cheap) assorted security bit packs and are approx $30 each. You can buy them but as they are sold by a size number it is quite expensive to just get the whole set in the hope that you have the right one. The only time that they were beaten was when the tech didn't tighten them correctly.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2021, 10:28 AM »
there are no tamperproof screws, someone makes a tool for all of them.
I have seen many public washroom stalls put together with unidirectional screws that allow no purchase in the counterclockwise direction. However, pliers might do the trick.

Those things are to prevent two things, vandalism and burglary. A determined burglar has no problem circumventing such measures, but the average vandal can't touch them.

Or the vandel has access to a home depot, amazon to just buy the tool.



Or they use a chisel and other ways the internet shows.

Such screws only stop spur of the moment stuff, but for that, any screw will do.  If the person did any planning, they will get the tool they need.

Offline Alex

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2021, 11:20 AM »
Such screws only stop spur of the moment stuff, but for that, any screw will do.  If the person did any planning, they will get the tool they need.

Well, thanks for paraphrasing my words.  [wink]

Online ChuckM

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2021, 11:35 AM »
If something is made of wood. the level of security is already compromised, so the goal should be to deter and minimize the crime of convenience. As others have pointed out, the determined will come with the tools necessary (a grinder or Dremel e.g.) to get what he or she wants.

Consider using more than one (as many as possible) type of fasteners (both security and regular kinds -- slot, hex, etc.). I might even strip/deform a couple of them so they can only be removed with a screw extractor if needed.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:25 PM by ChuckM »

Online ChuckM

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2021, 11:42 AM »
Snip
I have seen many public washroom stalls put together with unidirectional screws that allow no purchase in the counterclockwise direction. However, pliers might do the trick.


Read my blog: https://flairwoodworks.com/welcome/blog/

Pliers like this, which I'm getting: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/pliers/48332-screw-pliers?item=25K1702

Offline Alex

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2021, 12:58 PM »
Pliers like this, which I'm getting: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/pliers/48332-screw-pliers?item=25K1702

Nice, I didn't know these existed. I could use a pair. After googling around I found there are even locking pliers of this type. Well, no tamperproof  screw will hold up to that, unless the head is completely sunken.

Offline Svar

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2021, 01:26 PM »
Use regular Phillips or hex or Torx, then drill out the middle.

Offline Svar

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2021, 01:33 PM »
For a long time I was involved with securing equipment in an educational environment and we found that the only screw head that was readily available in metal thread nuts and bolts and sheet metal screws that could defeat most attacks was the Tri-groove. It's not available in a flat head version but if it is fitted in a recess then only the correct tool can remove it.
Looks like something that could be grabbed directly by a drill chuck.

Online ChuckM

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2021, 03:23 PM »
Pliers like this, which I'm getting: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/pliers/48332-screw-pliers?item=25K1702

Nice, I didn't know these existed. I could use a pair. After googling around I found there are even locking pliers of this type. Well, no tamperproof  screw will hold up to that, unless the head is completely sunken.

I suspect the LV pliers (also made in Japan) could be the same as these: https://www.vampiretools.com/product-category/products/pliers/

I'll compare mine after I pick it up (next week?) with the Vampire photos.


Online Bohdan

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2021, 06:13 PM »
For a long time I was involved with securing equipment in an educational environment and we found that the only screw head that was readily available in metal thread nuts and bolts and sheet metal screws that could defeat most attacks was the Tri-groove. It's not available in a flat head version but if it is fitted in a recess then only the correct tool can remove it.
Looks like something that could be grabbed directly by a drill chuck.

If they have a drill chuck it is probably attached to a drill and in that case they can just drill out any screw. Luckily not many carry a drill as it is a bit harder to conceal and needs planing.

Offline Packard

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2021, 03:47 PM »
Whenever I search for a hard to find product I go the the trade association that represents that industry.  They have staffing there to refer you to vendors.  Mostly they will refer you to manufacturers or distributors which may require minimum purchases, but they can refer you to their customers that can fill these orders.

In this case:  https://www.nfda-fastener.org/fastener-associations

They, in turn list regional associations and I would contact one of those regional associations that is near to you and see if they can help.

They list 12 domestic and 4 international associations.  In any case they can easily point you in the right direction and they can easily provide you with technical information (like what kind of security fasteners are used on wood).

Online SRSemenza

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2021, 07:42 PM »
I have a pair of Vampliers in my site work kit. Never know what you will run into that someone else has been working on.   [blink]

Seth

Offline rst

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2021, 04:49 PM »
I keep a pair of the Vampliers in my tool belt along with a pair of flush cutters (hoof trimmers), between the pair I can usually pull anything proud of  the surface.

Online ChuckM

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2021, 12:35 PM »
The Japanese pair of pliers from Lee Valley was finally picked up. I stripped a screw and did a quick test: it worked very well with its bite. Highly recommended. It could be a life-saver when you need it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 12:38 PM by ChuckM »

Offline mike_aa

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Re: Source for security / tamper proof wood screws
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2021, 03:25 PM »
Sorry for the late post, but I bought a pair of similar Japanese pliers from Amazon back in 2017.  Liked them so much I immediately ordered another pair for my son.  Here's a link if anyone is interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Pz-58-Screw-Pliers-Gt/dp/B002L6HJAA/ref=pd_vtp_1?pd_rd_w=sqsAy&pf_rd_p=55cbb45e-2534-4809-9135-12f41eecb852&pf_rd_r=9H2DW52NRNKT2RX4HV69&pd_rd_r=3d817017-58ca-46f5-bf28-b206742c06ca&pd_rd_wg=LmT7O&pd_rd_i=B002L6HJAA&psc=1

Mike A.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:30 PM by mike_aa »