Author Topic: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!  (Read 1313 times)

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Offline oliverweagle

  • Posts: 4
My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« on: June 19, 2020, 04:30 PM »
Dang.  I’m working with some 8/4 white oak, 5” wide and the boards are about 4’6 long.  I would like to make a table top - farmhouse style - that is 7 foot long - some genius (me)  failed to account for proper seating and table leg distances before adding the breadboard ends:( I am wondering if I could use  my domino 500 and make an end grain to end grain butt joint, or perhaps consider a half lap joint - or maybe something else entirely?  The table will be 30” or so wide so I’m anticipating using 6 Or 7 boards which will be edge joined using dominos and was thinking about alternating the long and short boards.

If anyone has a suggestion to help me save this project it will certainly be well received!

Thank you!

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2152
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2020, 04:40 PM »
Has the top been glued up into a panel, or you still have separate boards?
For end grain to end grain v-type finger joint this is the best:
https://www.amazon.com/FINGER-JOINT-BIT/dp/B001DT4S8C
Make sure to do it on boards already milled to thickness for tight and crispy seams on the faces. Practice on scraps, as bit height adjustment could be fiddly. Once you have the length you need, stagger the boards in the panel randomly (just like hardwood flooring).

Or make two parts extension table  [big grin]
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 04:52 PM by Svar »

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2074
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2020, 04:49 PM »
I am a firm believer in accentuating stuff like this. Maybe a dovetail or bow tie or something doing the butt joint. Call it out in the workpiece.

Always a way my friend. Always.

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1224
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2020, 05:17 PM »
some other options for you, depending on how much material you have.

54 inch long center section with 15 inch (3 board) breadboard ends on each end

5 inch bread board end on each end and one in the middle. So now you have 5 inch breadboard then a glued up panel of whatever length another 5 inch across the ends then another glued up panel then a 5 inch breadboard end. that could make a table 10 feet long  [eek] if you kept the longer lengths

Ron


Offline oliverweagle

  • Posts: 4
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2020, 05:59 PM »
Thank you for your replies!

 Svar - I still have separate boards

Bryan - sounds beautiful - and ambitious and a perfect opportunity for me to learn something new.  It's the visibility I'm concerned about!

Ron - very interesting! If I went with the 3 Board breadboard ends, I take it that this is composed of the 3 boards which are edge-glued together forming let's call them "breadboard panels" - which are then joined to the center panel with domino / mortise/tenon/ or tongue and groove?




Offline Scott in Bend

  • Posts: 268
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2020, 06:09 PM »
I don't think you will be happy with a 30" wide table.  For my take, the proportional width for a 7' long table should be in the range of 38" to 42".

I think domino the end butt joint.  With staggered joints, the adjacent boards will provide stability for the joint.  Clamping the butt joint would require some creativity.  Then, maybe cut a small v-groove in the joint after the glue has cured.  The v-groove detail could be repeated at the breadboard joint for some continuity.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 06:30 PM »
Be sure to alternate grain directions
Birdhunter

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1224
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2020, 06:51 PM »
Thinking about this more. I have an alternative that I like better. Personally I don't like the way that these blended table tops look. I much prefer the look of full length rails.

So my suggestion is if you are going to expend a lot of energy on this thing then do it properly from the beginning. So,  get the number of boards you need in the proper length and save the shorter stuff for another project or the breadboard ends of the table. A serving table, some night stands a desk etc.

A 30 inch wide table is doable (I've actually got one but it's only 72 inches long.) It fits in a narrow space and anything wider wouldn't fit. BUT 36 or 42 wide makes for a nicer table for serving and sitting.

Ron


Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 42
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 07:07 PM »
+1 on building things as designed even when that entails another trip to the wood store, particularly if the table is going to be front and center in your home.   

Most my “make do with what I’ve got on hand” projects turn into headaches at some point.  Some look real nice and others are flawed.

Offline oliverweagle

  • Posts: 4
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 09:34 PM »
Thank you everybody.    I'm going to build the tabletop using the lumber as purchased - it will just be a little smaller than anticipated and will live outside following the Matt Cremona finishing with CPES and Epiphanes, seated on symmetry hardware table legs.  Will be a splendid addition  :)

Thank you again,

Matthew

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 146
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 09:56 PM »
If you’ve got reasonably good grain matches then could consider horizontal scarf joints to create longer boards, then alternate the joints to either end of the table. You will see the joins in the table top but if the grain is similar it will look good, and you won’t have a solid line across the whole top.

If you use a low angle, say 10 degrees for the scarf the joint will be super strong as its effectively a long grain joint.


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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1845
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2020, 11:41 PM »
Thank you everybody.    I'm going to build the tabletop using the lumber as purchased -
Matthew

Late in the game as you've decided to make do with what's on hand, which is, of course, not wrong.

But if I were in your situation, I'd only consider one of these two options:

1) Start with the proper length of stock as some others have advised. Not only does it mean meeting the original spec., but it also means less work.

2) Another (less desirable) alternative is to introduce a middle leaf to make the final table longer as planned.

I match grains for appearance and for the purpose of handplaning (in that order of priority). In other words, as long as the boards look good in their composition and, secondarily, the grains run in the same direction, I'm fine. Whether the grains alternate or not is not important to me. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 11:45 PM by ChuckM »

Offline oliverweagle

  • Posts: 4
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2020, 01:18 AM »
AWESOME!  I'm looking forward to getting past the planning stage as my Hammer A3-31 arrives in a couple of weeks and am so inspired by the pictures and posts on this forum.  I sincerely appreciate your knowledge and advice.  This is a very exciting time. 

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 903
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2020, 08:27 AM »
 it will just be a little smaller than anticipated and will live outside following the Matt Cremona finishing with CPES and Epiphanes, seated on symmetry hardware table legs. 

I would do a lot more research on outdoor finishes since you mention this in your last comment. Perhaps search the Wood Whisper for the 2 disasters he had with using similar outdoor finishes that only lasted a short time before failure. Whatever you do don't use that Titebond 3 junk if it lives outdoors. Good luck with your project it will be a great learning experience.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2020, 12:46 PM »
I just built a table and two benches. The client had dimensions in mind, but the width had to be enough so that two seated adults, across the table from one another, would not bump knees or feet.

Also, wide enough that the benches could slide under the table when not in use.
Birdhunter

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2020, 12:53 PM »
Re Titebond 3, my 10 Ipe benches have been in the woods for many years and are still solidly glued together with TB3. I did use solvent in the mortises before gluing in the Domino tenons.
Birdhunter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1845
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2020, 12:53 PM »
Snip.

Also, wide enough that the benches could slide under the table when not in use.

Very good point.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2020, 04:37 PM »
My table & benches

Birdhunter

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 903
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2020, 07:50 AM »
Birdhunter have those pieces ever lived in full exposure to direct sun, rain and snow year round? From the pic it looks like a large covered area like a porch with limited direct exposure. Also what is the finish?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2020, 08:59 AM »
The table and benches are under a roof, but outside.

The wood is Sapiel (not sure about spelling). It's supposed to be a good outdoor wood. I built the table with the boards running across the short dimension. The benches have the boards running the long dimension. I used Z-clamps to attach the table top and the bench tops to their frames to accommodate movement.

My first finish was Epifanes applied with a foam brush. It was goopy and never flattened. I went by the manufacturer's guidelines on thinning, but I probably should have thinned it a lot more.

I sanded the Epifanes off and applied Enduro-Var Satin. I think about 4 coats. I sanded with 220 paper after the first 3 coats. It came out a bit shiny, but my clients loved it.

Birdhunter

Offline forestmount

  • Posts: 18
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2020, 03:20 AM »
My table & benches

Hi Birdhunter
I really like the finish you have used, is this picture recent? If not how long since the last recoat?


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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3095
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 05:08 AM »
The table and benches have been with the family for about 2 months. They have a 4 year old and a 2 year old, both boys. The tables get a lot of use. They just told me the finish is still beautiful.

The client showed me a picture from Etsy, but I was allowed to use my judgement. She likes the blocky look and I softened the look by running the table boards short wise and not adding breadboard ends.

I do like the Enduro-Var. it dries fast enough so as to not collect dust. I will experiment with the Epifanes. I just didn’t get it right the first time. Probably unwise to try a new finish on such a large project.
Birdhunter

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 930
Re: My lumber is not long enough for my table top!
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 12:21 PM »
I'm surprised that no one has suggested this simple solution - make your lumber go farther by stretching it!  Here are the instructions, although it does require a tool made by DuhWalt rather than Festool.





Seriously, I'm glad that the OP already got reasonable suggestions and decided on a strategy, because this post is obviously not helpful.  Someone who had too much time on their hands came up with this idea :) .  Enjoy!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:25 PM by HarveyWildes »