Author Topic: How do I prove Domino built handrail and pickets for deck meet building codes?  (Read 9945 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 971
I wanted to use my Domino with SIPOS to make the assemblies of my handrails and pickets for my soon to be built deck as much as possible, but I've run into a snag.

I haven't submitted a permit yet, I've only spoken to the crumongedly buidings dept gal at my town's city hall, and when I showed her what Domino's were, she had seen nor never heard of them and said they need to be an acceptible type per Ontario (Canada) Building Code 2006, or I need an engineers stamp on it with how I plan to use/build with them.  Can anybody offer any advice with dealing with such things or lead me to something I can show her that will get their use approved?  I can't possibly be the first newb to encounter this kind of situation in using Dominos for joinery in a permit required situation, altough I am new at the permit route of doing things being a DIY'er/Homeowner.

I plan on using Ipe South American Hardwood for the railings and also including my decking and pergola.  Even when I mentioned Ipe, she had not heard of it, and said I needed to demonstrate that that wood is suitable.  After the long weekend on Tuesday I plan to call a couple of Ipe suppliers if they have some kind of spec/info sheet that I can use to get the Ipe approved along with the IpeClip hidden deck fasteners I plan on using, which I suspect is available, but for the Domino joinery for the non-deck surface components, I'm at a loss as to how I can get a rubber stamp.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Harvey

  • Posts: 135
Hi:
We had some major reno work done to our bungalow in Ottawa. Your fastest, easiest way to go is get the engineers stamp. That, in effect, the covers the city's butt vis a vis liability. It cost our architect about a hundred bucks to get our plans stamped. You could waste your building season, lose any remaining hair and develop a nervous tick fighting with city hall otherwise.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 10:23 PM by Harvey »
Just a duffer

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 971
Hi:
We had some major reno work done to our bungalow in Ottawa. Your fastest, easiest way to go is get the engineers stamp. That, in effect, the covers the city's butt vis a vis liability. It cost our architect about a hundred bucks to get our plans stamped. You could waste your building season, lose any remaining hair and develop a nervous tick fighting with city hall otherwise.

A hundred dollars.  Had no idea it was tha cheap.  Hmmm!  Maybe I should look into that route.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4619
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Check the code I bet it is already accepted as mortise and tenon and joinery and is actually far above the specifications.

If they do not know it as ipe, they may know it as Pau Lope or Brazilian Walnut. No problems there the wood is simply one of the best wood one can use for an outdoor structure. Whoever approves those plans must know that.

I would just make your plans refer to the railing construction as mortise and tenon and leave it at that. They do not care the technique used at all, which is what the domino really is, a technique to do mortise and tenon work.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 482
Check the code I bet it is already accepted as mortise and tenon and joinery and is actually far above the specifications.

If they do not know it as ipe, they may know it as Pau Lope or Brazilian Walnut. No problems there the wood is simply one of the best wood one can use for an outdoor structure. Whoever approves those plans must know that.

I would just make your plans refer to the railing construction as mortise and tenon and leave it at that. They do not care the technique used at all, which is what the domino really is, a technique to do mortise and tenon work.

I would have to agree with the above. It is just a mortise and tenon joint and should already be an acceptable method!

Lambeater

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3569
    • Oakville Cabinetry
They do not care the technique used at all, which is what the domino really is, a technique to do mortise and tenon work.

Agreed.
Bureaucrats, they only have the power to say no, so unless you have to tell them something don't.
Toronto may have more specific bylaws on decks etc. than Oakville, but it would be hard to believe. Where I live, (Oakville) a homeowner can do their own drawings and submit them to the city for approval if signed off by an architect or architectural technician. The Ontario building code is available on line.
Tim

Offline Holzhacker

  • Posts: 967
    • www.aic-chicago.com
Your first mistake was telling the building dept about specific new products. Don't tell them anything they don't specifically ask for. They tend to disapprove anything they don't understand, safer for THEM that way.
Go through the normal permit process as they have it put together. Fill out the paperwork normal, honest and legitimate as possible. Then build what you want as long as it is safe and compliant. Most building codes have lateral thrust and weight load requirements as part of deck construction. See what yours says and follow that. 
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Woodenfish

  • Posts: 280
  • G2
Decks require maintenance and sometimes board replacement. That could be a problem if parts start getting all glued together.

Hidden deck board fasteners can be dodgy. I would rather face screw and plug.


Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 971
Decks require maintenance and sometimes board replacement. That could be a problem if parts start getting all glued together.

Hidden deck board fasteners can be dodgy. I would rather face screw and plug.



But isn't that when we can get creative an put our quasi little genius caps on?

You're right though on anticipating future maintenaince repair issues.  The Ipe clip site does have instructions on how to replace damaged boards, although, knock on wood (pun kinda intended) that is not a huge concern but I am keeping in mind.


I spoke to a hard to reach friend today, he was actually overseas and we Skyped it, about the process to submit plans as a homeowner and some of the do's and don'ts.  He's a constructipon engineer and has done numerous reno's and constructipon jobs on his own home.  He actually reiterated some of the comments passed on in this thread that I should not give an overly amount of detal in my plans, and that the Domino, which he is famliar with, but has never used himself, is an acceptible form of joinery for the applications I plan on using it for.  He said to just be weary of the site inspector, but to not fret, as they tend to not give a rats buttocks about decks unless you are clearly doing a Mickey Mouse job.  Felt a lot better about it all after having spoken to him, and am now ready to put my "Perfectionist" hat aside to draw up my plans for myu permit.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Woodenfish

  • Posts: 280
  • G2
My concern of using hidden fastener devices on fully slotted hardwood decking boards is warpage.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 971
My concern of using hidden fastener devices on fully slotted hardwood decking boards is warpage.

I agree!  Assuming what you mean is the pre-grooved along the entire edge type of grooving of the board?  Especially in my northern Canuck environment, it has been commented that freeze/thaw along the grooved edges can cause issues.

I had planned on wiping away the cobwebs off my PC557 biscuit jointer, and ploughing in the biscuit slots only where the fasteners were necessary.  This was something I read early on that was preferable, as well as using 5/4 versus 1 inch boards to avoid splitting/checking over time.  I also learned to use the wax end sealer on all boards, and to apply the preserving oil on the underside prior to installing as other preventative measures.  Not so sure the latter is necessary though.  Can anyone comment on that?
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4137
    • Warner Mill Works
I have had 0 issues with the Ipe clips on any of the SA hardwoods.

I use grooved boards as cutting the slots with my router is an added step that takes time that is better spent installing the decking.  The extra .15/ft for the grooves is worth it to me.

There is really no need to spend the money on 1" thick deck boards.  I have had no issues with 3/4" decking, in any of the SA species.